Are they willing to lose a year or two?

[Truzzcat]

Connor mirasola: If Barr goes 184 he slots in at 197 but then Ryder does not have a spot next year and unless he can get down to 174 in 2 year maybe never?

Zack Ryder: See above.

Joe Sealey: Do not see how he fits in next year and then you have PJ duke coming in who I see as a 165 so does Sealey try to get up to 174? Seems like he may be small for that weight and you will have Henckel and Cunningham looming.

I think all of these guys are in a place where they are almost certainly going to lose a year if not more I really wonder if they choose to stick it out or go somewhere else. Obviously its not really a hit for PSU because they will be putting their best guys out there its just an embarrassment of riches but could it help other teams get closer. Also if Connor were to leave would Cole go with him or would they split up? I lean that they all stay PSU just does not really lose guys but it's a bit crazy to think guys of this caliber may only have 2-3 years in the lineup.

[okokzach]

Nagao, Facundo

[juniorvarsity]

Sealey straight up missing a year no matter what if he stays.

PJ Duke or Messenbrink will need to go 174 or else PJ Duke is missing a year. 

Cunningham in same boat as PJ Duke.

I understand why you just take in all the best guys. I do not understand why wrestlers would stay and lose eligibility. Especially for a guy like PJ Duke or Connor Mirasola.

[jchapman]

1 minute ago, juniorvarsity said:

Sealey straight up missing a year no matter what if he stays.

PJ Duke or Messenbrink will need to go 174 or else PJ Duke is missing a year. 

Cunningham in same boat as PJ Duke.

I understand why you just take in all the best guys. I do not understand why wrestlers would stay and lose eligibility. Especially for a guy like PJ Duke or Connor Mirasola.

They may feel like they are in the best situation to reach their potential, even if it means "losing" a year as a starter.

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

I do not understand why wrestlers would stay and lose eligibility

Some guys actually prefer their bible study to not have a machine gun mindset. It's all about personal fit!

[juniorvarsity]

17 hours ago, jchapman said:

They may feel like they are in the best situation to reach their potential, even if it means "losing" a year as a starter.

Why are you putting "losing" in quotations?

[1032004]

18 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

Sealey straight up missing a year no matter what if he stays.

PJ Duke or Messenbrink will need to go 174 or else PJ Duke is missing a year. 

Cunningham in same boat as PJ Duke.

I understand why you just take in all the best guys. I do not understand why wrestlers would stay and lose eligibility. Especially for a guy like PJ Duke or Connor Mirasola.

Cael could always manufacture a medical redshirt like seems to be the case for Facundo and Nagao 

[VakAttack]

To each their own.  I would not lose the limited resource that is my eligibility to stay at a school I have little shot to start for, which seems to be the case for at the very least Sealey, Henckel, and little Mirasola. ETA:  Of course, I am also not an elite wrestler, so...

I mentioned in a different thread, the Mirasola one is interesting, sincei f he left, would his brother leave also?  That might create a short problem for Penn State, since they don't really have a HWT recruit in the offing right now.

Edited 4 hours ago by VakAttack

[lu1979]

18 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

Sealey straight up missing a year no matter what if he stays.

PJ Duke or Messenbrink will need to go 174 or else PJ Duke is missing a year. 

Cunningham in same boat as PJ Duke.

I understand why you just take in all the best guys. I do not understand why wrestlers would stay and lose eligibility. Especially for a guy like PJ Duke or Connor Mirasola.

I don't think PJ Duke will be sitting - he is going to be a threat to win NCAAs 4 Xs.  If he can make 157 next year I think he will start.  TK still has a RS to use.  Duke will RS the next year and move into the 165 slot after MM graduates.   I expect both he and MM will be vying for the 74kg spot on the US team (along with other guys) throughout most of this next cycle and beyond.  How that plays out in the NLWC will be interesting. 

I do think Barr stays at 197 next year - it will be better for him as far as his international goals go @ 86 kg  (189lbs)

No question PSU has more blue chip guys than they can use from 165 to 197.  I expect some will move on to other schools - the Mirasola twin question is interesting.  Of course it is still possible that Conner can improve enough to beat Barr but I would be a little surprised by that.  It would not surprise me if Barr and Conner were the two best 197s in the country next year.

[nhs67]

I think Sealey is odd-man out.  Duke will Greyshirt then Redshirt then either be 157 or 165.  Ryder at 174.  Barr at 184.  Mirasolas at 197/285.

I think we see a couple outbound transfers after this season, like Bearclaw, in Evans and Cochran at the very least.  Evans (141) and Cochran (197) could have similar success to Bearclaw is having this year at another institution next season.

Facundo (who might be okay being a MFS guy) and Barr (Facundo's best friend IRL) and the Mirasola brothers both seem to be package deals, so who knows?

[jchapman]

1 hour ago, juniorvarsity said:

Why are you putting "losing" in quotations?

The athlete may not feel like they are losing a year if they are developing and making progress toward their long-term athletic goals during that year.

[JVStateChamp]

We'll see what happens, but historically, very few wrestlers end up leaving PSU. Whatever Cael & Co. preaches seems to have a lasting impact on his guys. My opinion—though I could be wrong—is that with NIL and the transfer portal changing the game, this trend might start to shift. Wrestlers have a small window to chase their goals, and if I were a top guy with a shot at becoming an All-American, I’d want to take it.

[Pinnacle]

Sticking with PSU worked for Cassar. I think it worked for some other guys like even Terrel Barraclaw as he has improved tremendously. Looks like a probable All American in his final year and I'm not sure that ever happens without his time at PSU.

[JVStateChamp]

1 minute ago, Pinnacle said:

Sticking with PSU worked for Cassar. I think it worked for some other guys like even Terrel Barraclaw as he has improved tremendously. Looks like a probable All American in his final year and I'm not sure that ever happens without his time at PSU.

I don't disagree with the sentiment but with this group coming in without transferring to a different school they may never get the opportunity to show their talents at the NCAA level. Barraclaw would not be a starter at PSU and is now a top 5 ranked person for UVU. Could he have been a 2x AA had he transferred a year earlier? Its a very interesting hypothetical which is probably a combination of PSU development ability as well as the individual wrestlers ability to make themselves better.

[Pinnacle]

1 minute ago, JVStateChamp said:

I don't disagree with the sentiment but with this group coming in without transferring to a different school they may never get the opportunity to show their talents at the NCAA level. Barraclaw would not be a starter at PSU and is now a top 5 ranked person for UVU. Could he have been a 2x AA had he transferred a year earlier? Its a very interesting hypothetical which is probably a combination of PSU development ability as well as the individual wrestlers ability to make themselves better.

Without counting injured wrestlers like Robbie Howard, has there even been a top ten recruit that never started at Penn State for multiple years? Maybe Seth Nevills? Not sure who else. There are a lot of ways these guys can be slotted in and Cael seems to know how to do it. 

[Truzzcat]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I think Sealey is odd-man out.  Duke will Greyshirt then Redshirt then either be 157 or 165.  Ryder at 174.  Barr at 184.  Mirasolas at 197/285.

I think we see a couple outbound transfers after this season, like Bearclaw, in Evans and Cochran at the very least.  Evans (141) and Cochran (197) could have similar success to Bearclaw is having this year at another institution next season.

Facundo (who might be okay being a MFS guy) and Barr (Facundo's best friend IRL) and the Mirasola brothers both seem to be package deals, so who knows?

I would be really shocked if we do not see Duke for two years. I honestly feel like if he goes that route we may just not see him in college. In 2 years, we would be 1 year out from the Olympics and by that time I think he could realistically be a top 5 guy at 74kg (Carr,Mitchell,Lockett,Shaprio,Duke?). He also has a pretty extensive injury history so essentially 6 years of college may not appeal to him or be good for him. He's a guy you keep at all costs so I would look at maybe a Messenbrink bump to 174 and just a single red shirt for duke, Levi would be gone at that point and despite Messenbrink being small for 174 I think he would likely still kill everyone. After NCAA's this year I think will be very telling, Im sure all these guys have the mindset they are the best or will be the best, but the reality of the situation has to set in at some point. Another thing I point to that makes me think we do not see a greyshirt is that this logjam was apparent prior to the season, and they still have Sealey on the roster. To me he would have been a prime candidate to grey shirt.

[JVStateChamp]

11 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Without counting injured wrestlers like Robbie Howard, has there even been a top ten recruit that never started at Penn State for multiple years? Maybe Seth Nevills? Not sure who else. There are a lot of ways these guys can be slotted in and Cael seems to know how to do it. 

Although I think it is a really bad example without doing a deep dive I could come up with off the top of my head is Manville. Looking forward though we may see individuals like Facundo, Sealey, Mirasola not be able to crack the line up for multiple years. 

[Pinnacle]

1 hour ago, JVStateChamp said:

Although I think it is a really bad example without doing a deep dive I could come up with off the top of my head is Manville. Looking forward though we may see individuals like Facundo, Sealey, Mirasola not be able to crack the line up for multiple years. 

Facundo at least got one year and could get more. Also, he is at least improving in freestyle at NLWC. Manville makes sense in this category, but he never transferred out as well. Not sure his high school recruit ranking, and it seemed pretty obvious early on that he was probably not destined to become an NCAA champion.

[JVStateChamp]

17 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Facundo at least got one year and could get more. Also, he is at least improving in freestyle at NLWC. Manville makes sense in this category, but he never transferred out as well. Not sure his high school recruit ranking, and it seemed pretty obvious early on that he was probably not destined to become an NCAA champion.

Facundo seems to be making bigger gains in the freestyle realm. Looking forward a couple years it appears the Facundo/Kasak overlap is going to continue. PSU does have some flexibility with a Kasak RS but it does not seem as though Kasak would want to use it if he is the best guy. This may be an only time will tell kind of situation.

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, JVStateChamp said:

Although I think it is a really bad example without doing a deep dive I could come up with off the top of my head is Manville. Looking forward though we may see individuals like Facundo, Sealey, Mirasola not be able to crack the line up for multiple years. 

Fun fact: this would be Manville's final year of eligibility and that's assuming he didn't seek out another MRS. So what I'm saying is that there's still a chance he turns the corner and wins a natty