RBY vs Specner Likely tomorrow at 6:30 Est

[Truzzcat]

Rby will have to beat Deshazer in his quarter which I honestly don't know that I favor him in but if he does that, we will get him vs spencer in the semis. 

 

discuss

[CHROMEBIRD]

Spencer's gonna eat.

[RawDog]

Would be cool if we actually get to see that match

[okokzach]

Roman Bravo-Young dec. Daniel DeShazer , 6-2

Spencer Lee tech. fall Luka Gvinjilia , 11-0

 

Lee vs RBY will happen. Hope it's competitive 

[BarSeries]

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

27 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

 

Great showing for RBY!  About 7 points better than anticipated.

Questions finally answered.  Please everyone, pay up on your bets from 2023.  Would hate to see you shunned like the pastry man.

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Great showing for RBY!  About 7 points better than anticipated.

Questions finally answered.  Please everyone, pay up on your bets from 2023.  Would hate to see you shunned like the pastry man.

Did he know what par terre was this time?

What were the bets?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Did he know what par terre was this time?

What were the bets?

I'd have to go check the old board but a lot about how RBY would smash No-Knees Lee and all sorts of sig bets.  Lee also called a coward for not bumping up for dual.

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'd have to go check the old board but a lot about how RBY would smash No-Knees Lee and all sorts of sig bets.  Lee also called a coward for not bumping up for dual.

oh honestly I would’ve guessed it was the other way around with people guaranteeing that Lee would tech him in freestyle or something. 57kg RBY in freestyle is a lot different than 133 (or even ~130 if we were making up potential catch weights) pound RBY in folkstyle.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

oh honestly I would’ve guessed it was the other way around with people guaranteeing that Lee would tech him in freestyle or something. 57kg RBY in freestyle is a lot different than 133 (or even ~130 if we were making up potential catch weights) pound RBY in folkstyle.

My guess is Zagreb is prob 59 kg, so closer to 130 than 125.  That's the olympic weight...

[shiraz321]

Ranking tournaments all have +2 kg weight allowance 

[nhs67]

Senior Men's Freestle 59 KG (130.1) =/= Collegiate Folkstyle 133lbs (60.3 KG)

Not to mention RBY has been dieting and wrestling 57 KG (125.7lbs) since college.  He is physically a different wrestler. 

Case in point - look at Zain at 70 KG (154.3lbs) or 149lbs (67.6 KG( VS Zain at 65 KG.  Different animals.  Were RBY to go 61 KG on the regular, he would be an absolute nightmare.

[jross]

The first 90 seconds was not aired.  I don't know how Lee scored the 6, so I imagine it was a take down and two guts.  RBY scored a step out on a single leg and I think the later TD was a go behind.  Lee did a better job than I expected with defending the quickness of RBY.

[Truzzcat]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'd have to go check the old board but a lot about how RBY would smash No-Knees Lee and all sorts of sig bets.  Lee also called a coward for not bumping up for dual.

I'm sure the sentiment would have changed once he left PSU because its "the only place that can develop guys" even though I think a year ago the margin would have been significantly worse he looked markedly better than he did at the Olympics and events leading up. A 6-2 win over Deshazer is pretty darn impressive too, that guy does not give up points.

[Truzzcat]

41 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Senior Men's Freestle 59 KG (130.1) =/= Collegiate Folkstyle 133lbs (60.3 KG)

Not to mention RBY has been dieting and wrestling 57 KG (125.7lbs) since college.  He is physically a different wrestler. 

Case in point - look at Zain at 70 KG (154.3lbs) or 149lbs (67.6 KG( VS Zain at 65 KG.  Different animals.  Were RBY to go 61 KG on the regular, he would be an absolute nightmare.

I do not think that is necessarily true, RBY's shortcomings to my eye seemed to be more a product of his style not translating well immediately from folk to free. He very much kept his butt to the outside in folkstyle and that's just going to have a serious trickledown effect in free whether it be going on the clock or surrendering pushouts against higher level guys. I'm not sure you can always use the Zain example for everyone, for instance Micic's optimal college weight was 133 but it is absolutely not to this point his optimal freestyle weight. Obviously Roman only has Mexico nationals in 2023 and u20 trials in 2018 as his two instances at 61kg so you don't really have any data to draw from for either side of the argument, but I think he's finally adjusting his style to free and that 57kg is probably his best weight especially given his less than stellar par terre.

Edited yesterday at 02:30 PM by Truzzcat

[bnwtwg]

48 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Senior Men's Freestle 59 KG (130.1) =/= Collegiate Folkstyle 133lbs (60.3 KG)

Not to mention RBY has been dieting and wrestling 57 KG (125.7lbs) since college.  He is physically a different wrestler. 

Case in point - look at Zain at 70 KG (154.3lbs) or 149lbs (67.6 KG( VS Zain at 65 KG.  Different animals.  Were RBY to go 61 KG on the regular, he would be an absolute nightmare.

It's a non-olympic year so what's stopping RBY from going 61? It's not like he's worried about securing a spot at the MEXFinalX

[nhs67]

8 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

I do not think that is necessarily true, RBY's shortcomings to my eye seemed to be more a product of his style not translating well immediately from folk to free. He very much kept his butt to the outside in folkstyle and that's just going to have a serious trickledown effect in free whether it be going on the clock or surrendering pushouts against higher level guys. I'm not sure you can always use the Zain example for everyone, for instance Micic's optimal college weight was 133 but it is absolutely not to this point his optimal freestyle weight. Obviously Roman only has Mexico nationals in 2023 and u20 trials in 2018 as his two instances at 61kg so you don't really have any data to draw from for either side of the argument, but I think he's finally adjusting his style to free and that 57kg is probably his best weight especially given his less than stellar par terre.

I think that extra ~4.5lbs has a lot to do with him keeping this close.

If Lee was up 6-0 early, it tells me if that match is 125.5lbs rather than 130.1lbs that it ends after that first exchange, or shortly after on a 2nd exchange.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Closer than I'd like. A win is a win but I was hoping for a beheading. Spencer seemed to fade a little /was less active than typical in the 2nd. Maybe training with Mr. Machine gun will help his conditioning. 

Kudos to RBY. He looks much better at 59kg.

[bnwtwg]

32 minutes ago, jross said:

The first 90 seconds was not aired.  I don't know how Lee scored the 6, so I imagine it was a take down and two guts.  RBY scored a step out on a single leg and I think the later TD was a go behind.  Lee did a better job than I expected with defending the quickness of RBY.

The full match isn't posted yet but here are the box score highlights from the UWW youtube channel. The single to inside trip with strong hamstring turk attempted finish was particularly impressive given Lee's physical impairments. It seems his recovery is coming along well and this was a solid win with regards to domestic cache.

 

 

[nhs67]

7 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

It's a non-olympic year so what's stopping RBY from going 61? It's not like he's worried about securing a spot at the MEXFinalX

The same thing stopping Micic or Cuba from sending a full team the last several years.  Many countries only offer the Olympic weights or will only offer 'coaching support' if they enter in Olympic weights.

What that might mean is that 'yes' they can go 61 KG or 70 KG (like Gomez), but they will absolutely need to finance (or have their team) finance their trip.

For RBY, it could simply be that he knows 57 KG is his Olympic weight and he knows he needs to get more reps weighing in (or around) 57 KG.  Gomez doesn't seem to have issue with making 65 KG and his style allows him to be dangerous at 70 KG, still.  Also, 65 KG -> 70 KG is much different than 57 KG -> 61 KG.  I know it is actually a lower number difference, but I feel like you see more 65 KG guys up at 70 KG than we do 57 kG guys at 61 KG, which means your opponent's styles will be the same.

In summary, to answer your question:  I don't have a damned clue.

[nhs67]

8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

The same thing stopping Micic or Cuba from sending a full team the last several years.  Many countries only offer the Olympic weights or will only offer 'coaching support' if they enter in Olympic weights.

What that might mean is that 'yes' they can go 61 KG or 70 KG (like Gomez), but they will absolutely need to finance (or have their team) finance their trip.

For RBY, it could simply be that he knows 57 KG is his Olympic weight and he knows he needs to get more reps weighing in (or around) 57 KG.  Gomez doesn't seem to have issue with making 65 KG and his style allows him to be dangerous at 70 KG, still.  Also, 65 KG -> 70 KG is much different than 57 KG -> 61 KG.  I know it is actually a lower number difference, but I feel like you see more 65 KG guys up at 70 KG than we do 57 kG guys at 61 KG, which means your opponent's styles will be the same.

In summary, to answer your question:  I don't have a damned clue.

Oh!

One actual reason might be it is a ranking series event, for 'seeding' purposes.  Of which Gomez just might not give two deuces of.

[bnwtwg]

42 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

The same thing stopping Micic or Cuba from sending a full team the last several years.  Many countries only offer the Olympic weights or will only offer 'coaching support' if they enter in Olympic weights.

What that might mean is that 'yes' they can go 61 KG or 70 KG (like Gomez), but they will absolutely need to finance (or have their team) finance their trip.

For RBY, it could simply be that he knows 57 KG is his Olympic weight and he knows he needs to get more reps weighing in (or around) 57 KG.  Gomez doesn't seem to have issue with making 65 KG and his style allows him to be dangerous at 70 KG, still.  Also, 65 KG -> 70 KG is much different than 57 KG -> 61 KG.  I know it is actually a lower number difference, but I feel like you see more 65 KG guys up at 70 KG than we do 57 kG guys at 61 KG, which means your opponent's styles will be the same.

In summary, to answer your question:  I don't have a damned clue.

Fully agree that 61 down to 57 is a much harder cut. I don't know how most athletes and especially Americans can even hold that low past their soph year, much less into their 30s.

I also assume that RBY has that sweet covid year NIL that he rightfully demanded at the press conference after his second natty + NLWC money and that MEX wrestling fed probably doesn't have much of anything to begin with, so he and Gomez knew it was on them from the jump. I don't know that, but it's a strong fair assumption.

 

ETA: saw your second comment-

Does a rankings event even matter in a post-oly year, especially if paying your own way?

Edited yesterday at 03:32 PM by bnwtwg

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Fully agree that 61 down to 57 is a much harder cut. I don't know how most athletes and especially Americans can even hold that low past their soph year, much less into their 30s.

I also assume that RBY has that sweet covid year NIL that he rightfully demanded at the press conference after his second natty + NLWC money and that MEX wrestling fed probably doesn't have much of anything to begin with, so he and Gomez knew it was on them from the jump. I don't know that, but it's a strong fair assumption.

 

ETA: saw your second comment-

Does a rankings event even matter in a post-oly year, especially if paying your own way?

I don't think so, but I am not currently competing.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Who's this Bazarganov guy? Gave Spencer a really good match. Lee wasn't able to overpower him like he does most.

[Truzzcat]

Spencer wins 6-2 definitely looks not peaked right now and for good reason. Bazarganov is decent but he got teched by Haryutunan at euros last year and also lost to dingashvili who is like a fringe top 20-25 in the world type of guy. I do not think this form of spencer competes very well with Ono but maybe thats what he is peaking for. Conditioning does not quite seem there and not much sense of urgency.