Annual ranking of 4xers

[BruceyB]

Let the completely subjective arguments commence. Where would you rank the 4xers? I am excluding Pat Smith due to the fact that we don't have bonus stats/enough video to provide evidence to really show his greatness.

Mine would be..

1. Cael - undefeated and absurd dominance

2. Dake - No redshirts, plus Molinaro, St. John, 2x Hodge winner David Taylor all won NCAAs after Dake moved from their weight/graduated.

3. Stieber - Dominance increased year over year sans a "flu loss" to Retherford. Ramos won a title after he moved up, and went on to win a world silver.

4. Yanni D - Only one on the list to win a world medal while still having college eligibility, plus won as a true freshman when he had a 2x champ and returning finalist in his weight.

5. Starocci - Beat NCAA champs Griffith and Lewis multiple times (including on a bum wheel). Should have had a dominant bonus record last year if not for the injury, and has a win over Keckeisen in the All-Star Classic (who has dominated 184).

6. Aaron Brooks - first NCAA appearance followed spending his senior year, and freshman year (he was ranked #6 going into nationals, may have won, but who knows), in the PSU room before ever wrestling at NCAAs. Also only has 1 year where he had a bonus percentage over 70% (when points were boosted unlike for any other 4xers other than last year for Starocci).

 

[okokzach]

Stieber 6 because he was clearly taken down at the end of the 2012 finals. He wouldn't be a 4-timer if replay had been used.

Dake 1 because 4 different weights + the DT wins. Did it without a redshirt season!

[jackwebster]

1 hour ago, okokzach said:

Stieber 6 because he was clearly taken down at the end of the 2012 finals.

I want this to be true. It felt like a takedown in the moment. The broadcast team thought it was a takedown in the moment. Most non-partisan wrestling fans thought it was a takedown in the moment. But, McCormick immediately indicated "not yet" ... you know, the safe-at-home-plate gesture. I'm not sure if he said anything or if the Oliver could have heard it anyway. That Oliver did not try to improve his position in those last five seconds and the look on his face after the whistle blew makes me think that he didn't know McCormick's call, that he thought he had the takedown.  

McCormick didn't flinch if he did think it was questionable. Leads me to believe that Oliver got screwed by a bad rule. So, nothing really to be done except change the rule, and they did.

Re ranking the 4xers: I'm putting the Covid-year(s) folks below the rest. Sanderson, Dake, Smith, Stieber, Yanni, Brooks, Starocci

Best at their best: Sanderson, Dake, Brooks, Yianni, Stieber, Smith, Starocci

Favorite to watch: Yianni, Smith, Sanderson, Dake, Brooks, Stieber, Starocci

 

Edited 20 hours ago by jackwebster
I guess I just don't like Starocci

[RawDog]

I believe Steiber also had a questionable win over Ramos. 

I would probably give the nod to Dake as well. No red shirt and 4 different weights is just ridiculous.

If Starocci wins this year he should be number 1 but if he loses i think you got to put him behind most of the three timers. Most three timers would have got 4 if they had 5 years.

[Lleynor]

How are any of you putting Stieber at 3?!?! He got pinned by Ramos, taken down in the finals and handed a Natty, lost to a True Freshman as a RS Jr( who I have ranked higher collegiately than Stieber). Stieber is without a doubt on the bottom of my list. With that said, what an amazing list to be the bottom on. 
 

And 159-0 will always be #1. Not only did he never lose, he never almost loss either. He controlled every match. 

[BuckyBadger]

While this list has grown over the years it’s still a pretty exclusive club, which is why it’s surprising that another 4 timer is not listed here….the very first one.

[666]

4 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Let the completely subjective arguments commence. Where would you rank the 4xers? I am excluding Pat Smith due to the fact that we don't have bonus stats/enough video to provide evidence to really show his greatness.

Mine would be..

1. Cael - undefeated and absurd dominance

2. Dake - No redshirts, plus Molinaro, St. John, 2x Hodge winner David Taylor all won NCAAs after Dake moved from their weight/graduated.

3. Stieber - Dominance increased year over year sans a "flu loss" to Retherford. Ramos won a title after he moved up, and went on to win a world silver.

4. Yanni D - Only one on the list to win a world medal while still having college eligibility, plus won as a true freshman when he had a 2x champ and returning finalist in his weight.

5. Starocci - Beat NCAA champs Griffith and Lewis multiple times (including on a bum wheel). Should have had a dominant bonus record last year if not for the injury, and has a win over Keckeisen in the All-Star Classic (who has dominated 184).

6. Aaron Brooks - first NCAA appearance followed spending his senior year, and freshman year (he was ranked #6 going into nationals, may have won, but who knows), in the PSU room before ever wrestling at NCAAs. Also only has 1 year where he had a bonus percentage over 70% (when points were boosted unlike for any other 4xers other than last year for Starocci).

 

Stieber clearly belongs at the bottom. As far as I'm concerned he has an asterisk next to 2 of his titles. Here's how I have them. 

1. Cael

2. Dake

3. Yianni

4. Brooks

5. Smith 

6. Starocci

7. *Stieber*

Starocci voted down a couple slots because of his boring performance vs. Ferrari. 

[666]

2 hours ago, RawDog said:

 

If Starocci wins this year he should be number 1 but if he loses i think you got to put him behind most of the three timers. Most three timers would have got 4 if they had 5 years.

Disagree. Starocci got some flukish good luck in being able to go for a 5th title. Do you think the rest of the guys on the list of 4 timers wouldn't have won a 5th title if they came back at the age of 24 to try for one? 

Starocci shouldn't be rewarded with a mythical "best ever" title just because of winning 5 titles due to fluke luck. In fact I think he's clearly inferior to Cael , Dake, and Yianni, regardless of how many titles he wins. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, 666 said:

Disagree. Starocci got some flukish good luck in being able to go for a 5th title. Do you think the rest of the guys on the list of 4 timers wouldn't have won a 5th title if they came back at the age of 24 to try for one? 

Starocci shouldn't be rewarded with a mythical "best ever" title just because of winning 5 titles due to fluke luck. In fact I think he's clearly inferior to Cael , Dake, and Yianni, regardless of how many titles he wins. 

Agreed. The fifth, if it happens, is irrelevant.

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Let the completely subjective arguments commence. Where would you rank the 4xers? I am excluding Pat Smith due to the fact that we don't have bonus stats/enough video to provide evidence to really show his greatness.

Mine would be..

1. Cael - undefeated and absurd dominance

2. Dake - No redshirts, plus Molinaro, St. John, 2x Hodge winner David Taylor all won NCAAs after Dake moved from their weight/graduated.

3. Stieber - Dominance increased year over year sans a "flu loss" to Retherford. Ramos won a title after he moved up, and went on to win a world silver.

4. Yanni D - Only one on the list to win a world medal while still having college eligibility, plus won as a true freshman when he had a 2x champ and returning finalist in his weight.

5. Starocci - Beat NCAA champs Griffith and Lewis multiple times (including on a bum wheel). Should have had a dominant bonus record last year if not for the injury, and has a win over Keckeisen in the All-Star Classic (who has dominated 184).

6. Aaron Brooks - first NCAA appearance followed spending his senior year, and freshman year (he was ranked #6 going into nationals, may have won, but who knows), in the PSU room before ever wrestling at NCAAs. Also only has 1 year where he had a bonus percentage over 70% (when points were boosted unlike for any other 4xers other than last year for Starocci).

 

Smith had a 66% bonus rate. Basically the same as Brooks (65%) and Diakomihalis (64%)87%. Ahead of Dake (59%) and behind Stieber (79%) and Sanderson (87%)

[OH-IO]

Love these types of threads....here's my thoughts!

#1 is always gonna be easy, the hard one is #2,

since Dake seems to be a good choice he also had what I believe is a few lucky events the absolute #1 event is Caldwell not being able to wrestle (finish) his Senior year where he would have most likely met Dake bad injury (skate boarding i believe), I personally do not believe Dake a freshmen would have won over a returning National CHamp in Caldwell.... #2 is the timing of when he wrestled DT, Dake style against DT would 100% be stalling in todays world, Dake would have been forced to wrestle which means more scrambles vs DT,  Dakes defense was just as good as DT offense, I do not believe Dakes "motor" was as good as DT, eventually the getting to the edge and wrestle or scramble out would have be cautioned as stalling and forced Dake to wrestle more, today world DT would most like win over a Dake simply because of the backing out and consistantly wrestling from the edge (as Ferrari did vs Carter, Dake did the same vs DT)...... with that being said and I only mention Dake lucky breaks simply because all the others contenders had a few hiccups, lets not forget Dake had a few lucky dog events that helped him get 4x, my thought is this Dake does not beat Caldwell and he wrestle DT at the right time in college wrestling, todays rule would force Dake to come forward instead of get to the edge and counter everything and if you get into trouble just go out and get a fresh backup start and counter better next time!!!! 

 

#1 is Cael thats easy the rest is hard they all have luck dog events to help 

#2 Dake

#3 (Tie) Stieber & Yanni

#4 Starocci

#5 Brooks

 

 

[bnwtwg]

David Taylor still undefeated on the internet lmao get outta here

[Wrestleknownothing]

17 minutes ago, OH-IO said:

Love these types of threads....here's my thoughts!

#1 is always gonna be easy, the hard one is #2,

since Dake seems to be a good choice he also had what I believe is a few lucky events the absolute #1 event is Caldwell not being able to wrestle (finish) his Senior year where he would have most likely met Dake bad injury (skate boarding i believe), I personally do not believe Dake a freshmen would have won over a returning National CHamp in Caldwell.... #2 is the timing of when he wrestled DT, Dake style against DT would 100% be stalling in todays world, Dake would have been forced to wrestle which means more scrambles vs DT,  Dakes defense was just as good as DT offense, I do not believe Dakes "motor" was as good as DT, eventually the getting to the edge and wrestle or scramble out would have be cautioned as stalling and forced Dake to wrestle more, today world DT would most like win over a Dake simply because of the backing out and consistantly wrestling from the edge (as Ferrari did vs Carter, Dake did the same vs DT)...... with that being said and I only mention Dake lucky breaks simply because all the others contenders had a few hiccups, lets not forget Dake had a few lucky dog events that helped him get 4x, my thought is this Dake does not beat Caldwell and he wrestle DT at the right time in college wrestling, todays rule would force Dake to come forward instead of get to the edge and counter everything and if you get into trouble just go out and get a fresh backup start and counter better next time!!!! 

 

#1 is Cael thats easy the rest is hard they all have luck dog events to help 

#2 Dake

#3 (Tie) Stieber & Yanni

#4 Starocci

#5 Brooks

 

 

Paging Patrick Smith. If you are in the forum, please report to this thread.

[Lleynor]

1 hour ago, 666 said:

Stieber clearly belongs at the bottom. As far as I'm concerned he has an asterisk next to 2 of his titles. Here's how I have them. 

1. Cael

2. Dake

3. Yianni

4. Brooks

5. Smith 

6. Starocci

7. *Stieber*

Starocci voted down a couple slots because of his boring performance vs. Ferrari. 

I can get behind this one. Brooks winning 197 being undersized is an accomplishment to me as well to consider. His loss to the Michigan Guy I'm blanking on hurts him, since it was in an era where he should’ve still dominated. 
 

Star, 5th or not, is definitely last on my list. Slightly weaker defense than Dake, but zero offense. He should be mauling people in his 6th (7th?) year. 

[Pinnacle]

Lost to an Amine at Big10 who also won a silver or something at Worlds. But he then beat that guy at NCAA in dominant fashion. Rode him for a few minutes RT.

[Le duke]

I can get behind this one. Brooks winning 197 being undersized is an accomplishment to me as well to consider. His loss to the Michigan Guy I'm blanking on hurts him, since it was in an era where he should’ve still dominated. 
 
Star, 5th or not, is definitely last on my list. Slightly weaker defense than Dake, but zero offense. He should be mauling people in his 6th (7th?) year. 

Yeah, not like Myles Amine is a multiple time Olympic and World medalist or anything.

Just some random Michigan guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jackwebster]

2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Smith had a 66% bonus rate.

I did not know this. For some reason, I remember close matches, a few unexpected losses, and gassing every now and then. Just goes to show that eye-witness testimony ain't tgat reliable. 

Edited 16 hours ago by jackwebster

[Lleynor]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

Yeah, not like Myles Amine is a multiple time Olympic and World medalist or anything.

Just some random Michigan guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, a Freestyle Medalist. All of these other guys were winning in dominant fashion, and definitely not losing, at this point in their career. That’s why I have Stieber losing to True Freshman  Retherford as a significant loss in his RS Jr year. 

[Caveira]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Let the completely subjective arguments commence. Where would you rank the 4xers? I am excluding Pat Smith due to the fact that we don't have bonus stats/enough video to provide evidence to really show his greatness.

Mine would be..

1. Cael - undefeated and absurd dominance

2. Dake - No redshirts, plus Molinaro, St. John, 2x Hodge winner David Taylor all won NCAAs after Dake moved from their weight/graduated.

3. Stieber - Dominance increased year over year sans a "flu loss" to Retherford. Ramos won a title after he moved up, and went on to win a world silver.

4. Yanni D - Only one on the list to win a world medal while still having college eligibility, plus won as a true freshman when he had a 2x champ and returning finalist in his weight.

5. Starocci - Beat NCAA champs Griffith and Lewis multiple times (including on a bum wheel). Should have had a dominant bonus record last year if not for the injury, and has a win over Keckeisen in the All-Star Classic (who has dominated 184).

6. Aaron Brooks - first NCAA appearance followed spending his senior year, and freshman year (he was ranked #6 going into nationals, may have won, but who knows), in the PSU room before ever wrestling at NCAAs. Also only has 1 year where he had a bonus percentage over 70% (when points were boosted unlike for any other 4xers other than last year for Starocci).

 

Show me bonus % of all of these please in the ncaa tourney.   

[666]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Let the completely subjective arguments commence. Where would you rank the 4xers? I am excluding Pat Smith due to the fact that we don't have bonus stats/enough video to provide evidence to really show his greatness.

Mine would be..

1. Cael - undefeated and absurd dominance

2. Dake - No redshirts, plus Molinaro, St. John, 2x Hodge winner David Taylor all won NCAAs after Dake moved from their weight/graduated.

3. Stieber - Dominance increased year over year sans a "flu loss" to Retherford. Ramos won a title after he moved up, and went on to win a world silver.

4. Yanni D - Only one on the list to win a world medal while still having college eligibility, plus won as a true freshman when he had a 2x champ and returning finalist in his weight.

5. Starocci - Beat NCAA champs Griffith and Lewis multiple times (including on a bum wheel). Should have had a dominant bonus record last year if not for the injury, and has a win over Keckeisen in the All-Star Classic (who has dominated 184).

6. Aaron Brooks - first NCAA appearance followed spending his senior year, and freshman year (he was ranked #6 going into nationals, may have won, but who knows), in the PSU room before ever wrestling at NCAAs. Also only has 1 year where he had a bonus percentage over 70% (when points were boosted unlike for any other 4xers other than last year for Starocci).

 

I forgot to mention, Steiber's medal was a gold, not silver, but it was at a non-Olympis weight (61 kg). 

Edited 14 hours ago by 666