Why designating cartels as terrorist organizations or using the military to go after them in Mexico will fail

[PortaJohn]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

Famous last words lol

Our history of successfully "wiping out" militant groups mixed with civilian populations has not been stellar, but maybe it will work this time! Maybe we could ask Israel how they quickly and efficiently wiped out Hamas in Gaza? Oh wait....

Cartels aren't military groups.  They're a business enterprise.  

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Cartels aren't military groups.  They're a business enterprise.  

The cartels probably have better military capability than 3/4 of the world.

[Le duke]

Cartels aren't military groups.  They're a business enterprise.  

Bro, what the hell do you think “the Taliban” or ISIS are?

You ever watch Talib on Talib crime in the mountains of Paktika or Ghazni?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

The cartels probably have better military capability than 3/4 of the world.

You're  being delusional.  Let me repeat.  Cartels are business enterprises.  They have one goal, "make money."  Wars are expensive.  They do not have the funds or the backing to run a military campaign.  Within in hours the US would strike their production sites leading to pure chaos within their structure.  They would be financially bled out.    

[uncle bernard]

22 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

You're  being delusional.  Let me repeat.  Cartels are business enterprises.  They have one goal, "make money."  Wars are expensive.  They do not have the funds or the backing to run a military campaign.  Within in hours the US would strike their production sites leading to pure chaos within their structure.  They would be financially bled out.    

You're right. I'm sure they would just give up their multibillion dollar enterprise if they were attacked. No response at all. It's so simple!

[Tripnsweep]

25 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

You're  being delusional.  Let me repeat.  Cartels are business enterprises.  They have one goal, "make money."  Wars are expensive.  They do not have the funds or the backing to run a military campaign.  Within in hours the US would strike their production sites leading to pure chaos within their structure.  They would be financially bled out.    

How do you think they keep their business going? Harsh language? 

[Offthemat]

If you want an idea of how effective the cartel’s military operations are, just look at how they fight each other. 

[Tripnsweep]

31 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

If you want an idea of how effective the cartel’s military operations are, just look at how they fight each other. 

Lots of killing. 

[PortaJohn]

10 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

You're right. I'm sure they would just give up their multibillion dollar enterprise if they were attacked. No response at all. It's so simple!

You're not offering any logistics on how the Cartels could financially maintain a war with the US military.  Lets start here. 

The US has the power to disrupt their cash flow.  Where are they going to get more funding? 

The cartels are also at war with each other.  Can they withstand CIA covert operations that would escalate turf battles amongst themselves?

What role will the Mexican government play in this?  

Where are they going to get rearmament?  

 

 

 

[Tripnsweep]

22 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

You're not offering any logistics on how the Cartels could financially maintain a war with the US military.  Lets start here. 

The US has the power to disrupt their cash flow.  Where are they going to get more funding? 

The cartels are also at war with each other.  Can they withstand CIA covert operations that would escalate turf battles amongst themselves?

What role will the Mexican government play in this?  

Where are they going to get rearmament?  

 

 

 

You don't think the cartels have money in reserve for things like this? You don't think there's extremely poor and desperate people who either are already involved or who want to be for the promise of later financial gain? Look at how many people protected Pablo Escobar. I'm sure the US military would make immediate gains and disrupt things, but the cartels would adapt and given their decentralized nature, you aren't going to stop them with brute force. It's a fairy tale spun by Trump. All it would do is drive up the price of drugs, and make addicts stateside more desperate. 

[PortaJohn]

3 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

You don't think the cartels have money in reserve for things like this? You don't think there's extremely poor and desperate people who either are already involved or who want to be for the promise of later financial gain? Look at how many people protected Pablo Escobar. I'm sure the US military would make immediate gains and disrupt things, but the cartels would adapt and given their decentralized nature, you aren't going to stop them with brute force. It's a fairy tale spun by Trump. All it would do is drive up the price of drugs, and make addicts stateside more desperate. 

You didn't answer any one of my questions.

Edited Tuesday at 08:39 PM by PortaJohn

[Tripnsweep]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

You didn't answer one of my questions.

Yes I did. 

[jross]

9/11 demonstrated how the USA people respond when their country is under threat.  Protectors are eager to fulfill a meaningful duty.

Hell hath no fury if the cartel got aggressive within the USA.

[mspart]

Yeah, that would be a wrong move.

mspart

[Lipdrag]

13 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

The only way to stop the drugs is to stop the demand. People will always find a way to import drugs into the U.S. if the demand is there because of how lucrative it is, and additional enforcement on traffickers only makes smuggling more lucrative for those who succeed.  

I think BH stumbled onto a solution.  The problem is the demand is in the U.S.  Let us co-locate demand with the supply.  Caught with a drug smuggled into the US?  Deport the individual to the country of origin of the drug.  Don't incarcerate.  Outcarcerate.  Consider this humanitarian - you know, like needle exchanges.

Another solution - charge the country of origin with the cost of the DEA and other agencies, support, doctors, etc. for the costs to our society of drugs originating in their country.  It will probably be cheaper for them to control their own countrymen and (ex)ports than to pay for the damage caused by the "supply' from their country.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:07 AM by Lipdrag

[Tripnsweep]

5 hours ago, jross said:

9/11 demonstrated how the USA people respond when their country is under threat.  Protectors are eager to fulfill a meaningful duty.

Hell hath no fury if the cartel got aggressive within the USA.

The cartels aren't stupid. They know doing things like that even in Mexico has bad results. The DEA went hard at them after one of the cartels brutally murdered an undercover agent, Enrique Camarana. If they tried anything stateside it'd be crazy suicidal. There's nothing for them to gain at all. It's probably one of the dumbest things they could do. And even though they're in a dirty business, they aren't stupid. 

[Bigbrog]

I can't even believe that not only is one person claiming that the cartels could even remotely compete with the US Military, but there are a couple others claiming that too...have you people lost your freaking minds?!?! 

Our US Military could shut down every single cartel operation without even blinking an eye and with zero US casualties.

[Offthemat]

15 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I can't even believe that not only is one person claiming that the cartels could even remotely compete with the US Military, but there are a couple others claiming that too...have you people lost your freaking minds?!?! 

Our US Military could shut down every single cartel operation without even blinking an eye and with zero US casualties.

Even for those who might have had military training at some time, you know how you guard expectations of a wrestler who’s been out for awhile for injury or other reasons, when they first get back on the mat?  What this would be like is him drawing the guy who just went through the Big 10 season 25-0 in the first round of the conference tournament.  And nobody has given an example of superior weapons the cartels may possess, while our military has gunship helicopters, night vision capabilities, and are the best armed and trained in the world.  

[Bigbrog]

22 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Even for those who might have had military training at some time, you know how you guard expectations of a wrestler who’s been out for awhile for injury or other reasons, when they first get back on the mat?  What this would be like is him drawing the guy who just went through the Big 10 season 25-0 in the first round of the conference tournament.  And nobody has given an example of superior weapons the cartels may possess, while our military has gunship helicopters, night vision capabilities, and are the best armed and trained in the world.  

Exactly!  Also, some on here act like they have the most advanced missile defense systems and anti-aircraft weapons.  LOL

I can guarantee the US knows where pretty much every major cartel operation is and they could just send up drones and bomb the crap out of them...done.

[Le duke]

Even for those who might have had military training at some time, you know how you guard expectations of a wrestler who’s been out for awhile for injury or other reasons, when they first get back on the mat?  What this would be like is him drawing the guy who just went through the Big 10 season 25-0 in the first round of the conference tournament.  And nobody has given an example of superior weapons the cartels may possess, while our military has gunship helicopters, night vision capabilities, and are the best armed and trained in the world.  

And the best armed and trained forces in the world routinely lose service members in armed conflicts with lesser funded, poorer trained and significantly smaller organizations.

The cartels should not be underestimated.

https://www.cato.org/blog/idea-whose-time-should-never-come-using-special-forces-against-cartels-would-be-colossal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Le duke]

I can't even believe that not only is one person claiming that the cartels could even remotely compete with the US Military, but there are a couple others claiming that too...have you people lost your freaking minds?!?! 
Our US Military could shut down every single cartel operation without even blinking an eye and with zero US casualties.

Just like we were able to stop ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, IMU, TTP, HN, etc. without losing anyone. /s

This is incredibly ignorant. And incredibly arrogant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Le duke]

Even for those who might have had military training at some time, you know how you guard expectations of a wrestler who’s been out for awhile for injury or other reasons, when they first get back on the mat?  What this would be like is him drawing the guy who just went through the Big 10 season 25-0 in the first round of the conference tournament.  And nobody has given an example of superior weapons the cartels may possess, while our military has gunship helicopters, night vision capabilities, and are the best armed and trained in the world.  

The cartels have NVGs.

Unless we are establishing FOBs in Mexico and/or multiple FARPs, many cartels are further away than the max range of an AH-64, CH-48, MH-6 or UH-60. One-way range, that is. So unless you plan on abandoning those helicopters in Mexico, or establishing multiple refueling points IN Mexico, I’m not sure how useful they’ll be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Caveira]

12 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

The cartels have NVGs.

Unless we are establishing FOBs in Mexico and/or multiple FARPs, many cartels are further away than the max range of an AH-64, CH-48, MH-6 or UH-60. One-way range, that is. So unless you plan on abandoning those helicopters in Mexico, or establishing multiple refueling points IN Mexico, I’m not sure how useful they’ll be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You probably haven’t seen the movie because you’re prolly one of the ones that sort of got it cancelled but you remind me of the “let’s give up” guy in the movie PCU.   If anyone hasn’t seen it and likes to laugh it’s a great movie.  

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

Even for those who might have had military training at some time, you know how you guard expectations of a wrestler who’s been out for awhile for injury or other reasons, when they first get back on the mat?  What this would be like is him drawing the guy who just went through the Big 10 season 25-0 in the first round of the conference tournament.  And nobody has given an example of superior weapons the cartels may possess, while our military has gunship helicopters, night vision capabilities, and are the best armed and trained in the world.  

 

18 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

The cartels have NVGs.

Unless we are establishing FOBs in Mexico and/or multiple FARPs, many cartels are further away than the max range of an AH-64, CH-48, MH-6 or UH-60. One-way range, that is. So unless you plan on abandoning those helicopters in Mexico, or establishing multiple refueling points IN Mexico, I’m not sure how useful they’ll be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The US purposely arms the Cartel.  Not too long ago the Mexican government was pleading for an investigation into this.    I'm sure  the javelins the Cartels have and brag about have tracking devices.  

Edited 10 hours ago by PortaJohn

[Le duke]

You probably haven’t seen the movie because you’re prolly one of the ones that sort of got it cancelled but you remind me of the “let’s give up” guy in the movie PCU.   If anyone hasn’t seen it and likes to laugh it’s a great movie.  

No, I’m just a person with significantly more military experience than you, involving less sophisticated organizations that, despite being at significant technological disadvantages, managed to kill or maim a lot of people I care(d) about.

So, maybe you should just shut the ***duck** up, eh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk