Ono vs Spencer Feb 26th

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Cool video by Gross detailing his travel to the event. He hit quite a few significant speed bumps but kept a positive attitude throughout and had a nice message at the end. 

[dragit]

5 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Cool video by Gross detailing his travel to the event. He hit quite a few significant speed bumps but kept a positive attitude throughout and had a nice message at the end. 

Thanks for posting, enjoyed watching that.  I think I'm going to make myself watch this every time I travel, starting Friday, in order to try to change my attitude, such as with the guy at the rental car counter last week and the uber guy today, and most of the other service people in between.

[MPhillips]

Christ that's big. Sorry...

Edited Thursday at 04:18 AM by MPhillips

[GrandOlm]

On 2/25/2025 at 3:26 PM, Truzzcat said:

Looking for more opinions on this match. I think Nolf giving his thoughts that spencer wins easily has changed a lot of people's perspectives. I feel foolish questioning nolf in the slightest, the guy is a genius. However, one of his main points of contention was that people had not seen Ono before so now that he can be scouted spencer can shut him down. I just dont think Ono is as one dimensional as Nolf made him out to be. He does work a lot out of over collar snaps to a low ankle attack, but he also hit Marcus with a nasty ankle pick, and head pinched just about everyone at senior worlds. I also think it will be interesting that ono despite shooting a lot of low ankle attacks, shoots primarily head outside. Spencer may be the best I have ever seen at defending head inside singles. Ono also shoots into his underhook similarly to Hidlay and was able to get pushouts on blaze and uguaev who are both super stingy. None of those guys are spencer lee though so maybe he can shut all that down. Where spencer can do really well here, I believe is if he can re-attack off of Ono snap low level series. If he can hold his ties and keep his feet moving, I think he is going to have opportunities there, and obviously it just takes one chance on top for Spencer. For me I am leaning Ono, but I do not think the match is close. I think spencer either can shut down ono and he strings together some counterattacks and turns him and wins pretty decisively, or he cannot and ono runs away with it. 

I didn't think anything of it. 

Before I even saw his response, I was almost certain that he'd pick Spencer. I think it's just the culture of senior level wrestlers in the US. If you're American, you back the American publicly.  

It's still not that rare for senior level wrestlers to call their opponents "the Russian" or "the Turk". Not exactly a mindset that lends itself to heaping praise on foreign opponents. 

[GrandOlm]

Kyle's main similarities to Bruce are that he medals a lot, while losing a lot, and is untouchable domestically. 

But I think their standing at their respective weight and the trajectories differ. Bruce was ambiguously the best wrestler in the world for most of his career, with a 4 year window in his 30s where he had a mini reign as the clear top guy.

Snyder peaked early and had his mini reign very young. He was then overshadowed by another wrestler moving up and seemed to regress as he moved into his later 20s. 

[scourge165]

On 2/25/2025 at 3:12 PM, MPhillips said:

Career results college through international.

Snyder - College/International            Baumgartner - College/International   

30 Gold, 5 Silver, 7 Bronze                    14 Gold, 7 Silver, 4 Bronze (Not sure if Bruce had conference tourneys)

 

Not looking for a pissing contest, just throwing it out there...

The lack of respect for Snyder...drives me nuts. He won an Olympic Gold, 3 WCs and then he wrestled much of his career with...IMO, the greatest Wrestler ever, but...conservatively, a top 5 in MFS...and his career is talked about as though he's..Dustin Schlatter or someone. And that is NOT a knock on Schlatter, that dude last just TWO matches his first two years and won...I think 85, won it as a True Fresh and took a 3rd, then injuries mounted. He did make a World Team in College and his only loss was to the Bronze Medalist.

 

So I'm not picking some guy who did nothing, but the's talked about A-like a guy who is done and he's not. Bruce is a legend, but...is Snyder's Gold and Silver really less impressive than Bruce winning a Gold in 1984 when MOST of the talent in that field was out of it and then a Gold when he was older than Snyder is now(meaning both it's impressive what he did, but we're closing the book on Snyder too early). I HATE these discussions when you detract from what someone else did, but...C'mon, winning it in '84 is not the same as any other year. He lost to the Russian the year before, the Russian had won the WC surrounding '80, another Russian won it in '80. 

He beat a Canadian. And now...I respect our 51st state, but...not quite the same as the Russians. 

 

It's just...the tone in which we talk about him, like a disappointment. And yet, David Taylor...who deserves ALL the accolades and "flowers" as they say, he couldn't beat the top 2 guys in front of him and had to change weight and then accomplished what Snyder did, but we talk about him like he was untouchable. No...do people not remember I think one year he lost to Howe before getting to Dake and Burroughs(or maybe had had an epic match he beat Howe, either way). 

Nobody has even challenged Snyder at 97KG. And not for nothing, but the guy who has stopped Snyder from winning a few more of the San Francisco-ie Medals, he did Wrestle Taylor. It was a dominating win for Sadulaev. Which is just worth noting. 

But Snyder can't gut Sadualev? Oh my...let me show him how it's done

AND...I'm going to mention that there are 6 weights now and 10 when he Wrestled. I think it's likely we talk about a dream matchup with Sadulaev and Snyder if 92KG was still an Olympic weight as I think that's where Sadulaev Wrestles. He's where he looks the best and then Snyder has another Olympic Gold and a couple more World Titles. If THAT happens, then Taylor(all of 29 years old now) would have dominated the weight for 7 years with two Olympic Titles and 5 WCs.

That's all hypothetical though. What I KNOW is Kyle Snyder came into Ohio State as one of the most high touted prep recruits, he got to campus as a True Freshmen and probably joins Logan Stieber as a 4X National Champ, but Ohio State needed him THAT YEAR to win a team Title...and Snyder, Wrestling J'Den Cox, the #1 seed and defending National Champ, he pulled off the upset over a Mizzou team that was RIGHT there with Ohio State, helps them bring home the team title.

Then wins 3 more title and in the process, becomes the first College Wrestle to win an Olympic Gold and then come back and Wrestle in the NCAAs again beating a guy going for his 3rd title giving up 40 pounds before winning his 3 title giving up the most weight a HWT had given up in I thought it was like 50 years. 

 

 

Snyder peaked just fine, he's had a GREAT career, one of the most accomplished Americans ever and he's not done yet. 

 

 

 

Anyway, that Ono is something special, but I was impressed with Lee in that match. I actually feel better about his chances to win a Gold AFTER that match.

 

(I wanted to stay on topic and not get into some off-topic tangent!)

Edited Thursday at 09:33 AM by scourge165

[The Kid]

38 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

The lack of respect for Snyder...drives me nuts. He won an Olympic Gold, 3 WCs and then he wrestled much of his career with...IMO, the greatest Wrestler ever, but...conservatively, a top 5 in MFS...and his career is talked about as though he's..Dustin Schlatter or someone. And that is NOT a knock on Schlatter, that dude last just TWO matches his first two years and won...I think 85, won it as a True Fresh and took a 3rd, then injuries mounted. He did make a World Team in College and his only loss was to the Bronze Medalist.

 

So I'm not picking some guy who did nothing, but the's talked about A-like a guy who is done and he's not. Bruce is a legend, but...is Snyder's Gold and Silver really less impressive than Bruce winning a Gold in 1984 when MOST of the talent in that field was out of it and then a Gold when he was older than Snyder is now(meaning both it's impressive what he did, but we're closing the book on Snyder too early). I HATE these discussions when you detract from what someone else did, but...C'mon, winning it in '84 is not the same as any other year. He lost to the Russian the year before, the Russian had won the WC surrounding '80, another Russian won it in '80. 

He beat a Canadian. And now...I respect our 51st state, but...not quite the same as the Russians. 

 

It's just...the tone in which we talk about him, like a disappointment. And yet, David Taylor...who deserves ALL the accolades and "flowers" as they say, he couldn't beat the top 2 guys in front of him and had to change weight and then accomplished what Snyder did, but we talk about him like he was untouchable. No...do people not remember I think one year he lost to Howe before getting to Dake and Burroughs(or maybe had had an epic match he beat Howe, either way). 

Nobody has even challenged Snyder at 97KG. And not for nothing, but the guy who has stopped Snyder from winning a few more of the San Francisco-ie Medals, he did Wrestle Taylor. It was a dominating win for Sadulaev. Which is just worth noting. 

But Snyder can't gut Sadualev? Oh my...let me show him how it's done

AND...I'm going to mention that there are 6 weights now and 10 when he Wrestled. I think it's likely we talk about a dream matchup with Sadulaev and Snyder if 92KG was still an Olympic weight as I think that's where Sadulaev Wrestles. He's where he looks the best and then Snyder has another Olympic Gold and a couple more World Titles. If THAT happens, then Taylor(all of 29 years old now) would have dominated the weight for 7 years with two Olympic Titles and 5 WCs.

That's all hypothetical though. What I KNOW is Kyle Snyder came into Ohio State as one of the most high touted prep recruits, he got to campus as a True Freshmen and probably joins Logan Stieber as a 4X National Champ, but Ohio State needed him THAT YEAR to win a team Title...and Snyder, Wrestling J'Den Cox, the #1 seed and defending National Champ, he pulled off the upset over a Mizzou team that was RIGHT there with Ohio State, helps them bring home the team title.

Then wins 3 more title and in the process, becomes the first College Wrestle to win an Olympic Gold and then come back and Wrestle in the NCAAs again beating a guy going for his 3rd title giving up 40 pounds before winning his 3 title giving up the most weight a HWT had given up in I thought it was like 50 years. 

 

 

Snyder peaked just fine, he's had a GREAT career, one of the most accomplished Americans ever and he's not done yet. 

 

 

 

Anyway, that Ono is something special, but I was impressed with Lee in that match. I actually feel better about his chances to win a Gold AFTER that match.

 

(I wanted to stay on topic and not get into some off-topic tangent!)

Bruce's 1984 gold is similar to the Snyder's gold when Saduleav was banned from wrestling.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, The Kid said:

Bruce's 1984 gold is similar to the Snyder's gold when Saduleav was banned from wrestling.

Well...I'd disagree if that were true, but which WC was Sadulaev banned from Wrestling when Snyder won a Gold?

 

Was Snyder's top competition a...Canadian(and again, I don't recall this happening). 

[BarSeries]

Maybe Ono will in fact go down to 57

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Well...I'd disagree if that were true, but which WC was Sadulaev banned from Wrestling when Snyder won a Gold?

 

Was Snyder's top competition a...Canadian(and again, I don't recall this happening). 

Ummm 2022.  How quickly we forget.  

And Canada used to be better than they are now.  Fadzaev lost to a Canadian!

[JimmyCinnabon]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

The lack of respect for Snyder...drives me nuts. He won an Olympic Gold, 3 WCs and then he wrestled much of his career with...IMO, the greatest Wrestler ever, but...conservatively, a top 5 in MFS...and his career is talked about as though he's..Dustin Schlatter or someone. And that is NOT a knock on Schlatter, that dude last just TWO matches his first two years and won...I think 85, won it as a True Fresh and took a 3rd, then injuries mounted. He did make a World Team in College and his only loss was to the Bronze Medalist.

 

So I'm not picking some guy who did nothing, but the's talked about A-like a guy who is done and he's not. Bruce is a legend, but...is Snyder's Gold and Silver really less impressive than Bruce winning a Gold in 1984 when MOST of the talent in that field was out of it and then a Gold when he was older than Snyder is now(meaning both it's impressive what he did, but we're closing the book on Snyder too early). I HATE these discussions when you detract from what someone else did, but...C'mon, winning it in '84 is not the same as any other year. He lost to the Russian the year before, the Russian had won the WC surrounding '80, another Russian won it in '80. 

He beat a Canadian. And now...I respect our 51st state, but...not quite the same as the Russians. 

 

It's just...the tone in which we talk about him, like a disappointment. And yet, David Taylor...who deserves ALL the accolades and "flowers" as they say, he couldn't beat the top 2 guys in front of him and had to change weight and then accomplished what Snyder did, but we talk about him like he was untouchable. No...do people not remember I think one year he lost to Howe before getting to Dake and Burroughs(or maybe had had an epic match he beat Howe, either way). 

Nobody has even challenged Snyder at 97KG. And not for nothing, but the guy who has stopped Snyder from winning a few more of the San Francisco-ie Medals, he did Wrestle Taylor. It was a dominating win for Sadulaev. Which is just worth noting. 

But Snyder can't gut Sadualev? Oh my...let me show him how it's done

AND...I'm going to mention that there are 6 weights now and 10 when he Wrestled. I think it's likely we talk about a dream matchup with Sadulaev and Snyder if 92KG was still an Olympic weight as I think that's where Sadulaev Wrestles. He's where he looks the best and then Snyder has another Olympic Gold and a couple more World Titles. If THAT happens, then Taylor(all of 29 years old now) would have dominated the weight for 7 years with two Olympic Titles and 5 WCs.

That's all hypothetical though. What I KNOW is Kyle Snyder came into Ohio State as one of the most high touted prep recruits, he got to campus as a True Freshmen and probably joins Logan Stieber as a 4X National Champ, but Ohio State needed him THAT YEAR to win a team Title...and Snyder, Wrestling J'Den Cox, the #1 seed and defending National Champ, he pulled off the upset over a Mizzou team that was RIGHT there with Ohio State, helps them bring home the team title.

Then wins 3 more title and in the process, becomes the first College Wrestle to win an Olympic Gold and then come back and Wrestle in the NCAAs again beating a guy going for his 3rd title giving up 40 pounds before winning his 3 title giving up the most weight a HWT had given up in I thought it was like 50 years. 

 

 

Snyder peaked just fine, he's had a GREAT career, one of the most accomplished Americans ever and he's not done yet. 

 

 

 

Anyway, that Ono is something special, but I was impressed with Lee in that match. I actually feel better about his chances to win a Gold AFTER that match.

 

(I wanted to stay on topic and not get into some off-topic tangent!)

Why in the world anyone would talk negatively about anyone who medaled at the Olympics is beyond me. Instead of trying to diminish any of these guys why don't we just celebrate their successes instead of parsing their whole senior level careers as if any of that matters? They won Olympic medals for the United States. That's amazing.

I am speaking in general terms by the way, I am not directing this at you specifically.

Edited Thursday at 01:39 PM by JimmyCinnabon

[Truzzcat]

1 hour ago, BarSeries said:

Maybe Ono will in fact go down to 57

 

Rei primarily competes at 61kg during none olympic years so if anything I think this may keep ono at 61 this year. Japans best team would have ono at 57 though. Nishiuchi who he beat for the spot last year 3-2 is probably the second best guy in the world at the weight. He's a 2x junior world champ and beat Aman,Richards and cruz in 2023 at the zagreb when he was 19.

[shiraz321]

10 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Rei primarily competes at 61kg during none olympic years so if anything I think this may keep ono at 61 this year. Japans best team would have ono at 57 though. Nishiuchi who he beat for the spot last year 3-2 is probably the second best guy in the world at the weight. He's a 2x junior world champ and beat Aman,Richards and cruz in 2023 at the zagreb when he was 19.

Nishiuichi is at 65 now 

[jross]

Lee did a good job fending off the leg attack once in period two... but...

I wonder why Ono didn't attack more at the end of the second period.  Lee looked exhausted and his positioning loosened. Ono held his positions and appeared to have plenty in the tank.  Was this a sign of respect?  An American likely rushes into trouble.  Ono had the mental disciple to hold position and minimize unnecessary risk.  There is something to be learned about calculated restraint there.

[1032004]

2 hours ago, BarSeries said:

Maybe Ono will in fact go down to 57

 

What does “I train for perfect wrestling” mean?

46 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Rei primarily competes at 61kg during none olympic years so if anything I think this may keep ono at 61 this year. Japans best team would have ono at 57 though. Nishiuchi who he beat for the spot last year 3-2 is probably the second best guy in the world at the weight. He's a 2x junior world champ and beat Aman,Richards and cruz in 2023 at the zagreb when he was 19.

You think Ono will go 61 to try to beat Higuchi?

[Truzzcat]

40 minutes ago, shiraz321 said:

Nishiuichi is at 65 now 

Do you think he will stay there if ono drops down? Beating Kiyooka would be a tall task.

[Truzzcat]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What does “I train for perfect wrestling” mean?

You think Ono will go 61 to try to beat Higuchi?

I interpreted his tweet as he will not be competing at all this year maybe not until 2028?

[shiraz321]

9 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Do you think he will stay there if ono drops down? Beating Kiyooka would be a tall task.

He came third at the emperor's cup in December at 65. The winner and the runner up went to Albania but neither got a medal. 

He posted after winning junior asians at 61 that it would be his last time at that weight class. This is after Ono beat him for the junior world spot. 

I think he has lost to both Tanabe and Ogino in his past two tournaments at 65. 

[Truzzcat]

26 minutes ago, shiraz321 said:

He came third at the emperor's cup in December at 65. The winner and the runner up went to Albania but neither got a medal. 

He posted after winning junior asians at 61 that it would be his last time at that weight class. This is after Ono beat him for the junior world spot. 

I think he has lost to both Tanabe and Ogino in his past two tournaments at 65. 

Tanabe looked very good at the ranking series. The depth of Japan right now is extremely impressive. Thats a large reason I don't pay much mind to the PSU faithful speculating that Ono will come here. It's likely worse than his current training environment at least for his size.

[The Kid]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Well...I'd disagree if that were true, but which WC was Sadulaev banned from Wrestling when Snyder won a Gold?

 

Was Snyder's top competition a...Canadian(and again, I don't recall this happening). 

Yoshida just beat Snyder in the uww ranking event. 

15:25: Arash YOSHIDA (JPN) has done it! He
beats Kyle SNYDER (USA) in the semifinals at
97kg. Yoshida, who seems small for 97kg
was in all sorts of trouble for five minutes
and 30 seconds of the match. The match
saw Snyder score a takedown on the edge
and as Yoshida was trying to sneak out of
the hold, Snyder scored a pushout, all while
Yoshida was on activity time. Snyder led 4-C
before giving up a stepout. Both wrestler
continued the pressure in the second period
but Snyder's strength and positioning didn't
let Yoshida get his on his attacks. However,
Yoshida managed to get a cut-back and a
turn to lead 5-5 on criteria with 30 seconds
on the clock. Despite Snyder's efforts,
Yoshida managed to remain in contact and
not get scored on. A stunning win for the
Yoshida.

 

Edited Thursday at 03:22 PM by The Kid

[The Kid]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Ummm 2022.  How quickly we forget.  

And Canada used to be better than they are now.  Fadzaev lost to a Canadian!

Igali. a Canadiam was a great wrestler who beat McIlravy.  Broke my heart,  but that's how it goes.

He was Canada's only Olympic gold medalist. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 03:34 PM by The Kid

[The Kid]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/15cQpg7At4/

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

17 minutes ago, The Kid said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/15cQpg7At4/

That was... not the best exchange I've ever seen from Snyder.  (Not the worst either)

[The Kid]

15 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

That was... not the best exchange I've ever seen from Snyder.  (Not the worst either)

It was a sign of fatigue imo.

Why did he try a merkle when it's not td in freestyle? 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, The Kid said:

It was a sign of fatigue imo.

Why did he try a merkle when it's not td in freestyle? 

Why did he awkwardly bail out of the single?