Daniel Penny trial

[uncle bernard]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:57 PM, mspart said:

So Trip, would the situation be any different if Neely knifed a woman (or otherwise assaulted a woman or child or man) and Penny put in in the same hold and Neely died?  I see this and the actual situation as the same as people on the train were fearing being hurt because of Neely's behavior and threats.    

ms

Yeah, then it would be actual self-defense. Neely didn’t attack anyone. He was unarmed. You can’t just kill someone because they make you uncomfortable.

Imagine the bloodshed in this country if being scared was a valid reason for killing whoever you want.

Maybe the shooter was frightened by the United Health CEO?

[Offthemat]

28 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Yeah, what kind of country do we live in if you can’t strangle a homeless man for being loud on the subway?

The man was completely restrained and no longer a threat and Penny decided to keep choking him for 5 minutes, even after he was unconscious. He was warned repeatedly by witnesses that he was killing him. Textbook manslaughter.

“Lives saved” He was unarmed and the worst he actually did was throw trash. The only thing they found on him was a muffin. Was he targeting someone with a nut allergy perhaps?

Being around someone going through a mental episode is frightening and unpleasant. But that doesn’t mean you have free rein to kill that person. The reality is most people in this country view homeless people as subhuman. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Yeah, then it would be actual self-defense. Neely didn’t attack anyone. He was unarmed. You can’t just kill someone because they make you uncomfortable.

Imagine the bloodshed in this country if being scared was a valid reason for killing whoever you want.

Maybe the shooter was frightened by the United Health CEO?

Do you just like looking stupid?

[Tripnsweep]

Maybe if he was a rich, white, well connected former cop who pointed a gun at police he wouldn't have gotten choked to death.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/rivals-slam-rachel-mitchells-plea-deal-with-ex-arizona-prisons-chief-18667178

[jross]

1 hour ago, Tripnsweep said:

Maybe if he was a rich, white, well connected former cop who pointed a gun at police he wouldn't have gotten choked to death.

I'd feel safer if I saw a *black Perry restrain a *white Neely on a train, given the publicly shared context. I'm over this identity politics nonsense. To me, justice is no charges at all or just criminally negligent homicide without incarceration. Maybe Perry could perform community service and get counseling. It recognizes the tragedy without punishing someone for trying to keep everyone safe.

*switching the races changes nothing.  

[ionel]

15 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

 Neely didn’t attack anyone. He was unarmed.

... and Penny was unarmed so maybe like the moon landing this never happened.  

[Tripnsweep]

1 hour ago, jross said:

I'd feel safer if I saw a *black Perry restrain a *white Neely on a train, given the publicly shared context. I'm over this identity politics nonsense. To me, justice is no charges at all or just criminally negligent homicide without incarceration. Maybe Perry could perform community service and get counseling. It recognizes the tragedy without punishing someone for trying to keep everyone safe.

*switching the races changes nothing.  

The point is that someone who was acting dangerously and pointed a gun at police wasn't killed, and a guy who was unarmed and acting erratically in public was iced by a random passerby. Maybe it was race, social class, whatever, but you cannot tell me there isn't a double standard. 

Edited December 7 by Tripnsweep

[Tripnsweep]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

... and Penny was unarmed so maybe like the moon landing this never happened.  

Just because you're unarmed when you kill somebody doesn't mean that it isn't negligent homicide. 

[Offthemat]

6 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

The point is that someone who was acting dangerously and pointed a gun at police wasn't killed, and a guy who was unarmed and acting erratically in public was iced by a random passerby. Maybe it was race, social class, whatever, but you cannot tell me there isn't a double standard. 

There is a difference between died and killed.  Neely had a pulse when the paramedics took over. 

[Tripnsweep]

1 minute ago, Offthemat said:

There is a difference between died and killed.  Neely had a pulse when the paramedics took over. 

You're playing semantics. He caused him to die. If the paramedics couldn't save him then the harm inflicted on him must have been pretty bad. 

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

You're playing semantics. He caused him to die. If the paramedics couldn't save him then the harm inflicted on him must have been pretty bad. 

Did the drugs in his system play a part?

[Caveira]

10 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Maybe if he was a rich, white, well connected former cop who pointed a gun at police he wouldn't have gotten choked to death.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/rivals-slam-rachel-mitchells-plea-deal-with-ex-arizona-prisons-chief-18667178

Hunter is already accounted for.   

[Paul158]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

Did the drugs in his system play a part?

Yes. His brain also played a part ( he was schizophrenic). The disease he had in his body played a part.(sickle cell anemia) 

[Tripnsweep]

7 hours ago, Caveira said:

Hunter is already accounted for.   

Did he get drunk and point a gun at police? 

[Tripnsweep]

7 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Did the drugs in his system play a part?

Possibly. But they alone wouldn't have killed him. You probably think the police were justified in murdering George Floyd too. 

[neutral]

Being loud and mentally ill is not a threat. Penny had no cause to lay hands on him.

[Caveira]

Read somewhere blm threatening to riot all over the us if penny is acquitted.   

[neutral]

Cite your source.

[Caveira]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTYa8XksK/

 

you insinuating it’s not in BLMs character?   Free store looting for a few days and bringing down your neighborhood is like page 1 of their playbook.   
 

how many of their leaders got caught using $$$$ to buy houses and stuff?  

Edited December 8 by Caveira

[Tripnsweep]

55 minutes ago, Caveira said:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTYa8XksK/

 

you insinuating it’s not in BLMs character?   Free store looting for a few days and bringing down your neighborhood is like page 1 of their playbook.   
 

how many of their leaders got caught using $$$$ to buy houses and stuff?  

TikTok isn't a news source. 

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, Tripnsweep said:

TikTok isn't a news source. 

Don’t watch the leader / founder of nyc blm call for violence.  On the news.   I don’t care. 
 

oddly enough.  I think every single American.  And every single non American.   Would truly be surprised if blm did not riot.  

you sir.    You Won’t admit it.    But in your heart I know you would be surprised if he gets acquitted  and blm does not riot…. And you know it.  
 

Really don’t need a source for that…. It’s what they do.  

 

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, neutral said:

Being loud and mentally ill is not a threat. Penny had no cause to lay hands on him.

It's more complicated than this.  Obviously, 99% of people who live in cities and are used to taking the subway can spot that a homeless/druggie walking onto the train and screaming nonsense is not a threat and you should just just walk away from that person. And even if you aren't used to that type of thing and jump to action to subdue the person, we as former wrestlers know that you can subdue somebody without choking him to death and you should never continue to hold a chokehold even when the guy is clearly out. 

With all that said, the legal requirements for what is and isn't self defense are more complicated than just what is obvious to us.  I don't think it's even in question whether it was justified to jump the guy, because Neely verbally threatened to kill people on the train. So subduing him is perfectly legal. The only question is whether he held the chokehold too long, and that's where all the evidence about the cause of death and whether he should have known he was no longer a threat comes into play. Then there is the question about the type of chokehold that he put on and whether he had the proper training to know the difference. There is a difference between what is "right" and what is criminal. 

[Tripnsweep]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Don’t watch the leader / founder of nyc blm call for violence.  On the news.   I don’t care. 
 

oddly enough.  I think every single American.  And every single non American.   Would truly be surprised if blm did not riot.  

you sir.    You Won’t admit it.    But in your heart I know you would be surprised if he gets acquitted  and blm does not riot…. And you know it.  
 

Really don’t need a source for that…. It’s what they do.  

 

I wasn't aware BLM had a singular leader. I was under the impression that it was decentralized and was a collaboration of people who were loosely identifying themselves as part of a movement, not an actual structured organization. 

And if he is acquitted then I would expect protests. As are people's legal right in this country. Hopefully he isn't because he killed somebody and it was not in self defense. The reason he isn't being tried for murder is because he committed a different crime where he accidentally caused a person to die. 

[Caveira]

7 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

And if he is acquitted then I would expect protests.

Riots.   Fixed that for ya.   They aren’t a peaceful far left domestic terrorist group.    It’s what they do.  

[Tripnsweep]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

 

Riots.   Fixed that for ya.   They aren’t a peaceful far left domestic terrorist group.    It’s what they do.  

Having been present at a BLM protest that turned violent and got ugly in a hurry, I can tell you first hand the people who began acting violent and who caused damage were opportunists who had little to nothing to do with protesting and just saw it as an excuse to cause trouble. Also the local police force in a neighboring city initiated violence against an otherwise peaceful BLM protest, arrested many people wrongfully and lied in order to get them prosecuted as a criminal street gang. They're in the process of settling the lawsuit now. 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

Having been present at a BLM protest that turned violent and got ugly in a hurry, I can tell you first hand the people who began acting violent and who caused damage were opportunists who had little to nothing to do with protesting and just saw it as an excuse to cause trouble. Also the local police force in a neighboring city initiated violence against an otherwise peaceful BLM protest, arrested many people wrongfully and lied in order to get them prosecuted as a criminal street gang. They're in the process of settling the lawsuit now. 

That’s phase two of the riots.   BLM will riot day one.  On basic crap.   Local stores etc…. Mainly peaceful but opportunistic knuckle heads will rob and loot businesses.  
 

The second wave is the antifa dudes paid for by the left.  Those are the professional rioters.   They are the ones wirh the Molotov cocktails and the like.  Those are almost always white liberal kids too.  Those kids with the helmets and umbrellas and black masks etc.   

Edited December 9 by Caveira