Yianni D on colleges recruiting committed athletes

[Idaho]

25 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

Are coaches considered "3rd parties"?  Yianni explicitly said it was a coach who he had to block due to excessive contact.  Also, Yianni did not say it was a Penn State coach:  Koll referenced a Happy Valley coach, who may not have been (and sounds like it wasn't) the same coach Yianni referenced.

Remember again that Ivy League schools don't have National Letters of Intent, so not sure what "signed" means in this context.

When Yianni was only verbally committed (2014?) and not signed he could still be contacted by coaches since it was only a verbal and nothing was signed. I don't think that NIL or the portal was a thing yet when he committed. After signed you cannot be contacted by coaches, but now in the NIL/Portal era,   you can be contacted by a 3rd party to offer NIL to get you to transfer.  I am not sure how Ivies do this. I read that NLI is now changing. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, Idaho said:

When Yianni was only verbally committed (2014?) and not signed he could still be contacted by coaches since it was only a verbal and nothing was signed. I don't think that NIL or the portal was a thing yet when he committed. After signed you cannot be contacted by coaches, but now in the NIL/Portal era,   you can be contacted by a 3rd party to offer NIL to get you to transfer.  I am not sure how Ivies do this. I read that NLI is now changing. 

There is not,  and never was, "signing" for the Ivies.

A publicized verbal commitment is intended to end the recruiting process.  It is supposed to be the kid signalling that he has made his decision and does not want to be bothered.  This is entirely on the kid, the intended school cannot comment whatsoever.

Unfortunately ethics have taken a beating.  The kids use this to drive up their asking prices.  The schools often ignore the verbals.  Bad behavior by both parties.

The purpose is SUPPOSED to be an end to the recruiting process.  If the kid doesn't intend on ending the process, jhe shouldn't make the announcement.

 

PS Did Yianni delete the tweet about blocking phone number?

Edited October 16 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[TNwrestling]

8 minutes ago, Idaho said:

 I read that NLI is now changing. 

it isnt changing, its gone all together

 

https://www.covnews.com/sports/ncaa-votes-eliminate-national-letter-intent/

[Idaho]

43 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

it isnt changing, its gone all together

 

https://www.covnews.com/sports/ncaa-votes-eliminate-national-letter-intent/

"In its place will be a new financial aid agreement that will provide many of the same functions as the NLI and will be tied into a contract related to an eventual revenue-sharing model across college athletics."

[Idaho]

47 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

A publicized verbal commitment is intended to end the recruiting process.  It is supposed to be the kid signalling that he has made his decision and does not want to be bothered. 

But is still able to be contacted by coaches without penalty....which is why the verbal has been a joke for years. Hence the term "flipped" 

[MPhillips]

1 hour ago, Idaho said:

When Yianni was only verbally committed (2014?) and not signed he could still be contacted by coaches since it was only a verbal and nothing was signed.

So much for, No means no...

[tgsp93]

I see this both ways.  I believe it is "wrong" to call kids after they publicly commit to a school and when my son was recruited he would tell coaches he already committed to xyz school and every coach backed off and said "oh sorry I did not know that, Coach ABC is a great guy, good luck to you".  But I do think it would be permissible to say "If you change your mind please call us, we were thinking of a 40% scholarship for you, so if that makes a difference to you let us know"

Some kids commit early so they do not have to deal with recruiting during their senior year, but take less than they could get elsewhere.  Just my thought.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 hours ago, tgsp93 said:

I see this both ways.  I believe it is "wrong" to call kids after they publicly commit to a school and when my son was recruited he would tell coaches he already committed to xyz school and every coach backed off and said "oh sorry I did not know that, Coach ABC is a great guy, good luck to you".  But I do think it would be permissible to say "If you change your mind please call us, we were thinking of a 40% scholarship for you, so if that makes a difference to you let us know"

Some kids commit early so they do not have to deal with recruiting during their senior year, but take less than they could get elsewhere.  Just my thought.  

100% this

[Le duke]

Is Koll going to tell people how he flipped LewisFernandes after he had committed to Virginia Tech, when he was Yianni’s coach at Cornell?


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[1032004]

8 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

Are coaches considered "3rd parties"?  Yianni explicitly said it was a coach who he had to block due to excessive contact.  Also, Yianni did not say it was a Penn State coach:  Koll referenced a Happy Valley coach, who may not have been (and sounds like it wasn't) the same coach Yianni referenced.

Remember again that Ivy League schools don't have National Letters of Intent, so not sure what "signed" means in this context.

What makes you say “sounds like it wasn’t”?  I’ll give you it’s not totally clear,  but by saying “you don’t know the story,” it sure seems to me like he’s referencing the same “Happy Valley coach” that Koll is referencing.

Edited October 17 by 1032004

[bnwtwg]

6 hours ago, tgsp93 said:

Some kids commit early so they do not have to deal with recruiting during their senior year, but take less than they could get elsewhere.  Just my thought.  

My experience is a quarter century ago so it is absolutely nothing with regards to the current landscape. But I had walk-on offers and I accepted one with a verbal. Then I did a couple things at NHSCA and state and my high school AD sent out stuff on my behalf and *boom* I was getting bonafide offers from D1-D3.

Don't think about the blue chip kids and the studs who transfer up, think about the kids who all of a sudden had an awesome offseason or placed/won state unexpectedly. They also may only get one shot to upcycle the rest of their life - who are we to hold that against them for a notion of nobility when social and/or professional nobility may not be gained if they hold course?

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

Is Koll going to tell people how he flipped LewisFernandes after he had committed to Virginia Tech, when he was Yianni’s coach at Cornell?


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koll said he didn't blame cael in the original post.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

koll said he didn't blame cael in the original post.

He was saying this to compliment Yianni.

BTW Nolf was just on Bader's show.  He told a story of his recruitment. (Keep in mind, he wasn't into the recruiting process and knew almost nothing about college wrestling).

When Nolf was a sophomore in HS, he did an interview with Flo.  He was set to be a top recruit (ended up with only one HS loss, and looking like a 3x PA champ).  Flo asked where he wanted to go, and he said "Cornell (he was a very strong student and he knew about Kyle Dake.)  When his recruitment officially opened, there was almost zero interest.  He was getting no phone calls.  Nolf thinks it was because everyone thought he was set on Cornell.  At this point, Nolf's father got involved and started calling college coaches... and it changed everything.

So a LOT changed in 15 years.  Apparently coaches respected kids verbals 15 years ago.  Now, a verbal is worth so little that even forum posters think its a joke.  It was not intended to be a joke.

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

So a LOT changed in 15 years.  Apparently coaches respected kids verbals 15 years ago.  Now, a verbal is worth so little that even forum posters think its a joke.  It was not intended to be a joke.

Spot on... when a handshake meant something... forget verbal, being signed and on a roster is now fair game. It's how some teams stay relevant. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

5 hours ago, Idaho said:

Spot on... when a handshake meant something... forget verbal, being signed and on a roster is now fair game. It's how some teams stay relevant. 

Yeah, verbals have always been just a gentleman's agreement but they've been honored less and less over the last 20+ years. In football, verbal commitments are kind of meaningless these days and it's common than for a kid to back out and recommit elsewhere. Tbh, I think some kids verbally commit early as a strategy. It cuts the noise from lesser programs or schools who don't have a serious chance with them, and it can create a bidding war behind the scenes. 

With signed commitments, I think the new financial agreement that replaces NLI will keep recruits locked-in to their commitment. A program would have to buy a kid out of his or her contract, which can get expensive.

[BloodRound]

How could Tom Brands do this?

[PortaJohn]

On 10/16/2024 at 12:19 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I didn't have my own D1 recruiting experience, but I would imagine that you verbal early for a number of reasons:  #1 to stop the constant barrage of texts and calls, but also probably to make sure everything is situated with your chosen destination (ie they don't recruit over you). 

It is  possible we may see some of this play out with one of the top recruits in the country who felt wronged by the B10 school that he verballed to.  (and now he has good reason to feel vindicated)

My understanding is some fires may need to be extinguished.

Can speak from personal experience.  A verbal is nothing more than a verbal.  Until there is a signature the recruitment is open.  Nothing unethical about it.  Some go the "do not contact" route and that was respected.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

42 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Can speak from personal experience.  A verbal is nothing more than a verbal.  Until there is a signature the recruitment is open.  Nothing unethical about it.  Some go the "do not contact" route and that was respected.  

The initial purpose was to end recruitment.  People with lower moral standards have changed this, particularly in recent years.

[Elevator]

On 10/16/2024 at 1:58 PM, Idaho said:

When Yianni was only verbally committed (2014?) and not signed he could still be contacted by coaches since it was only a verbal and nothing was signed. I don't think that NIL or the portal was a thing yet when he committed. After signed you cannot be contacted by coaches, but now in the NIL/Portal era,   you can be contacted by a 3rd party to offer NIL to get you to transfer.  I am not sure how Ivies do this. I read that NLI is now changing. 

As Big Red noted, Ivies do not particpate in national letter of intent and so have no NCAA barrier to lock away athletes based on that commitment.  

[Elevator]

14 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The initial purpose was to end recruitment.  People with lower moral standards have changed this, particularly in recent years.

Disagree.  The ethical duties and code of morality you sugguest are hard to reconcile with ethics and lawful right to harvest and maximize individial NIL opportunities/rights.  Athletes having the freedom to profit from their own NIL - this has its own ethics as well as legal protections.  These rights tend to Trump NCAA rules and the NCAA recruiting code of the hills you urge as "moral standards."   Not much moral to me from the old system where the schools got all of the benefits and Athlete4s essentially lost their own NIL opportunities.       

[PortaJohn]

On 10/16/2024 at 2:04 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

A publicized verbal commitment is intended to end the recruiting process.  It is supposed to be the kid signalling that he has made his decision and does not want to be bothered.  This is entirely on the kid, the intended school cannot comment whatsoever.

This is not true.  This is another thread of your's trying in any way shape or form to shit on Penn State again.  Plenty of athletes verbally commit and still take visits to other schools prior to signing.  You're just making shit up.  A verbal commitment is nothing more than saying, "hey i right now I'm vibing with this school."

[CropDuster507]

23 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

This is not true.  This is another thread of your's trying in any way shape or form to shit on Penn State again.  Plenty of athletes verbally commit and still take visits to other schools prior to signing.  You're just making shit up.  A verbal commitment is nothing more than saying, "hey i right now I'm vibing with this school."

Then maybe the fancy little twitter graphics should say "Vibing" instead of "committed" lol. We don't need to reinvent the english language for collegiate athletics. That wasn't the intention of verbal commitment. It's being USED that way, sure, but that's not what "commiting" means.

...And I willfully identify as a Penn State fan.

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, CropDuster507 said:

Then maybe the fancy little twitter graphics should say "Vibing" instead of "committed" lol. We don't need to reinvent the english language for collegiate athletics. That wasn't the intention of verbal commitment. It's being USED that way, sure, but that's not what "commiting" means.

...And I willfully identify as a Penn State fan.

Verbal commitment's are not binding.  They are unofficial.  It has alway been that way.  Sure we can argue using the word "commitment" but it has never been anything more than stating  that at that moment the athlete has one particular school as his/her leader. 

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

This is not true.  This is another thread of your's trying in any way shape or form to shit on Penn State again.  Plenty of athletes verbally commit and still take visits to other schools prior to signing.  You're just making shit up.  A verbal commitment is nothing more than saying, "hey i right now I'm vibing with this school."

… from making official recruiting visits to other colleges after you've made a verbal commitment, it's considered bad form to do so, and you should avoid it.Jul 21, 2018

 

 

 

[Dark Energy]

People love to justify their opinion so much that they ignore the plain and simple definition of words.  If the word commitment is new to you, look it up in the dictionary.   
 

If the wrestler is simply indicating that they are leaning toward a particular school and are not committed, then be clear about it.

 

I definitely would not want to rely on the ‘word’ of some of you or be a business partner.