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WTT Tiers

nhs67

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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Greetings All,

I figured doing a 'tiers' list for the current entries for WTT this coming weekend would be appropriate and fun.

Keep in mind a few of the following:
- These are MY tiers.  I welcome you to challenge them, however I also challenge you to create your own.  I would love to see that.  I can also be swayed, if you make a compelling and logical argument.  Calling me a big stupidhead might work as well.
- These are as of approximately midday of 9/10/24.
- As most of you know/remember, my tiers are that you can win or lose to someone in your tier or a tier directly adjacent.  It would not be expected of you to defeat someone more than one tier above you or lose to someone more than one tier below you, unless injury, Pinfellery, or something along unexpected takes place.  NO TIER simply means I either don't know enough about them or don't expect them to defeat anyone aside for NO TIER gents - all due respects.
- Have fun!  This one is non-negotiable.

61 KG

Tier 1
Daton Fix, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC/TMWC
*Vitali Arujau, New York - SPARTAN COMBAT RTC/TMWC

Tier 2
Seth Gross, Minnesota - Wisconsin Regional Training Center
**Nahshon Garrett, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC
Austin DeSanto, Pennsylvania - HWC/TMWC

Tier 3
Jax Forrest, Pennsylvania - Young Guns
Nasir Bailey, Illinois - Arkansas Regional Training Center
Marcus Blaze, Ohio - Perrysburg Wrestling Club

Tier 4
Liam Cronin, Nebraska - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center

Tier 5
Nico Provo, Connecticut - Connecticut
Michael Tortorice, Illinois - Team Tortorice Wrestling Club

NO TIER
Devan Turner, Indiana - NYAC/Indiana RTC
Kyle Burwick, North Dakota - Bison Wrestling Club

*Arujau is sitting out the the Best of Three Finals
**Garrett could allow anybody to put 15 points on him.

70 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Oliver, North Carolina - NYAC
James Green, Nebraska - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center

Tier 2
Alec Pantaleo, Michigan - CKWC/TMWC

Tier 3
Andrew Alirez, Colorado - NCWC/TMWC
*Bryce Andonian, Ohio - SERTC/TMWC

Tier 4
Yahya Thomas, Illinois - NJRTC/TMWC
Kaleb Larkin, Arizona - Atreus Wrestling Club
Evan Henderson, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC
Jarrett Jacques, Missouri - Tiger Style Wrestling Club
Daniel Cardenas, Colorado - Bear Cave Wrestling Club
PJ Duke, New York - KD Training Center
**Will Lewan, Illinois - Cliff Keen Wrestling Club

Tier 5
Ian Parker, Virginia - Cavalier Wrestling Club
Ryan Jack, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/TMWC
Jackson Arrington , Pennsylvania - WOLFPACK WC/TMWC
Paniro Johnson, Pennsylvania - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC
Jakob Bergeland, Minnesota - Gopher Wrestling Club

Tier 6
Jaden Abas, California - California Regional Training Center (CA RTC)
Wyatt Sheets, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC/TMWC

NO TIER
Vince Bouzakis, Pennsylvania - Wyoming Seminary
Dayne Morton, Minnesota - West Coast Regional Training Center
Isaiah Delgado, Utah - Brunson UVRTC

*Andonian could pin anybody or get pinned by anybody
**Lewan could defeat anybody 1-1 or lose to anybody 1-1

79 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Burroughs, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC

Tier 2
Alex Dieringer, Oklahoma - CKWC/TMWC
Chance Marsteller, Pennsylvania - NJRTC/TMWC

Tier 3
David Carr, Iowa - Cyclone RTC/TMWC
Keegan O'Toole, Missouri - Tiger Style WC/ TMWC

Tier 4
Evan Wick, California - SoCal RTC/TMWC

Tier 5
*EMPTY

Tier 6
Clay Lautt, North Carolina - Tar Heel Wrsetling Club
Kennedy Monday, North Carolina - NJRTC/TMWC
Joey Lavallee, Pennsylvania - Brunson UVRTC/TMWC
**Hunter Garvin, Iowa - Iowa
Joey Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center

Tier 7
Matthew Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center
Noah Mulvaney, Wisconsin - Buffalo Valley Regional Training Center
Demetrius Romero, Idaho - Brunson UVRTC

NO TIER
Sam Beckett, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania
Andrew Dickson, North Carolina - George Mason University
Justin Grant, Florida - McDoubles Wrestling

*I know there is an EMPTY one there.  That is deliberate.
**Before anybody freaks out, Garvin is from Iowa City.  Chill.

92 KG

Tier 1
David Taylor, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC
(IF he shows, he is a lock)

Tier 2
EMPTY

Tier 3
Zahid Valencia, Arizona - Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club

Tier 4
Trent Hidlay, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/ MWC

Tier 5
Jonathan Aiello, Virginia - PENN RTC/TMWC
Eric Schultz, Illinois - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center
Michael Macchiavello, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC

Tier 6
*Aeoden Sinclair, Wisconsin - Tiger Style Wrestling Club
Marcus Coleman, Iowa - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC

Tier 7
**Pat Downey, Maryland - NYAC
Maximus Hale, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC
Zane Mulder, Iowa - Burg Training Center
Eze Chukwuezi, New York - Spartan Combat RTC
Cameron Caffey, Illinois - Michigan Wrestling Club
Nick Stemmet, Illinois - Illinois

NO TIER
Aidan Brenot, Tennessee - Bison Wrestling Club
Luke Duthie, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania

*I am seriously worried that Sinclair will be undersized.  I nearly put Coleman alone here.
**Deep-Lunged-Downey could be as high as Tier 4.  Natty-Ice-Downey could be as low as Tier 104.  Which will show up?

 

DISCUSS

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"I know actually nothing.  It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me

 

 

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Gus Big Brain

Gus

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@nhs67  A couple things that stand out at each weight or questions I have based on your observations.

61kg - As much as I am a fan of watching Desanto, I cannot see him beating Fix/Vito so I think he slides into the tier 3 slot. It is possible that the youngsters (Forrest/Blaze) make a tier 2 push but I think you have them slotted correctly for now. When was the last time Gross or Nahshon beat Fix/Vito? 

70kg - I would move Alirez to Tier 2 and all the those below Tier 3 up one tier. It is possible that Alirez is just too small for 70kg and perfectly sized for 65kg though... I am very interested to see how Larkin and PJ Duke do against this competition. I would move Paniro up one tier as it is hard for me to picture him losing to Abas or Sheets but I could see him going with the Tier 2 guys. 

79kg - I would combine Tier 1 and 2. Something seems to have really clicked for Hunter Garvin but I think you probably have him tiered properly considering that Wick is at least 4 feet taller than him. I would slide Joey Bianchi down a tier. 

92kg - I hate to say it but Downey has to be at least Tier 5 but probably should be Tier 4. Taylor did not kill Zahid at final X 2022 so it is possible that Zahid should be Tier 2. That being said, if it is true that DT size for 86kg was a problem then he would be significantly bigger than Zahid. 

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Truzzcat NCAA All-American

Truzzcat

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this is a c&p with edits

61 KG

Tier 1
Vitali Arujau, New York - SPARTAN COMBAT RTC/TMWC

Tier 2
Daton Fix, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC/TMWC
Nahshon Garrett, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC

Tier 3
Seth Gross, Minnesota - Wisconsin Regional Training Center
Austin DeSanto, Pennsylvania - HWC/TMWC
Marcus Blaze, Ohio - Perrysburg Wrestling Club
Jax Forrest, Pennsylvania - Young Guns

Tier 4
Nasir Bailey, Illinois - Arkansas Regional Training Center

Tier 5
Liam Cronin, Nebraska - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center

Tier 6
Nico Provo, Connecticut - Connecticut
Michael Tortorice, Illinois - Team Tortorice Wrestling Club

NO TIER
Devan Turner, Indiana - NYAC/Indiana RTC
Kyle Burwick, North Dakota - Bison Wrestling Club

-if any of the tier 3 guys beat one of the tier 2 guys I would not be shocked, Garret vs fix was not all that close last year. I think Blaze has an oustide shot of making the finals but I dont think anyone is touching vito.

70 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Oliver, North Carolina - NYAC
James Green, Nebraska - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center
Alec Pantaleo, Michigan - CKWC/TMWC

Tier 2
Andrew Alirez, Colorado - NCWC/TMWC
Bryce Andonian, Ohio - SERTC/TMWC
Kaleb Larkin, Arizona - Atreus Wrestling Club
Jarrett Jacques, Missouri - Tiger Style Wrestling Club

Tier 3
Yahya Thomas, Illinois - NJRTC/TMWC
Evan Henderson, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC
Daniel Cardenas, Colorado - Bear Cave Wrestling Club
PJ Duke, New York - KD Training Center
Paniro Johnson, Pennsylvania - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC
Vince Bouzakis, Pennsylvania - Wyoming Seminary

Tier 4
Ian Parker, Virginia - Cavalier Wrestling Club
Ryan Jack, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/TMWC
Jackson Arrington , Pennsylvania - WOLFPACK WC/TMWC
Jakob Bergeland, Minnesota - Gopher Wrestling Club

Tier 5
Jaden Abas, California - California Regional Training Center (CA RTC)
Wyatt Sheets, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC/TMWC

NO TIER
Dayne Morton, Minnesota - West Coast Regional Training Center
Isaiah Delgado, Utah - Brunson UVRTC

Jacques beat monday at OTT and made the semis and I think he is better suited for 70kg he could make a deep run. Bouzakis is a similar case that I think he is better suited for 70kg than 74 and gave Lockett some tough matches.

79 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Burroughs, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC
Chance Marsteller, Pennsylvania - NJRTC/TMWC
Keegan O'Toole, Missouri - Tiger Style WC/ TMWC

Tier 2
Alex Dieringer, Oklahoma - CKWC/TMWC

Tier 3
David Carr, Iowa - Cyclone RTC/TMWC

Tier 4
Evan Wick, California - SoCal RTC/TMWC

Tier 5
*EMPTY

Tier 6
Clay Lautt, North Carolina - Tar Heel Wrsetling Club
Kennedy Monday, North Carolina - NJRTC/TMWC
Joey Lavallee, Pennsylvania - Brunson UVRTC/TMWC
**Hunter Garvin, Iowa - Iowa
Joey Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center

Tier 7
Matthew Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center
Noah Mulvaney, Wisconsin - Buffalo Valley Regional Training Center
Demetrius Romero, Idaho - Brunson UVRTC

NO TIER
Sam Beckett, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania
Andrew Dickson, North Carolina - George Mason University
Justin Grant, Florida - McDoubles Wrestling

KOT is my pick to win this weight. I know its weird to put him two tiers above Carr but I think he is a true 174 now and I think Carr will be undersized. Chance essentially beat JB 3-0 last year and I dont think hes getting better at 36 but I would love to be wrong. Chance also had some great international success at 86 which imo he is way too small for.

92 KG

Tier 1
David Taylor, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC
Zahid Valencia, Arizona - Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club

Tier 2
EYMPT

Tier 3
Trent Hidlay, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/ MWC

Tier 4
Pat Downey, Maryland - NYAC

Tier 5
Jonathan Aiello, Virginia - PENN RTC/TMWC
Eric Schultz, Illinois - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center
Michael Macchiavello, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC

Tier 6
*Aeoden Sinclair, Wisconsin - Tiger Style Wrestling Club
Marcus Coleman, Iowa - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC

Tier 7
Maximus Hale, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC
Zane Mulder, Iowa - Burg Training Center
Eze Chukwuezi, New York - Spartan Combat RTC
Cameron Caffey, Illinois - Michigan Wrestling Club
Nick Stemmet, Illinois - Illinois

NO TIER
Aidan Brenot, Tennessee - Bison Wrestling Club
Luke Duthie, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania

I agree on Sinclair being too small, Pat had lungs at the BJJ thing and had he had them at trials would have beaten carter Imo. If we get motivated DT and the weight cut proved to be part of the issue at trials I think he wins. Zahid did beat Azarpira last year at worlds and Azarpira went on to beat snyder twice this year and had he not died could have beaten Taz so to me that match is a toss up.

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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31 minutes ago, Gus said:

@nhs67  A couple things that stand out at each weight or questions I have based on your observations.

61kg - As much as I am a fan of watching Desanto, I cannot see him beating Fix/Vito so I think he slides into the tier 3 slot. It is possible that the youngsters (Forrest/Blaze) make a tier 2 push but I think you have them slotted correctly for now. When was the last time Gross or Nahshon beat Fix/Vito? 

Garrett seems to be the only guy who can throw around Vito.  He lets it fly and he is going to get 10 straight on him one of these times.  I don't think it happens this weekend, though.  Gross beat Fix for the team spot a couple years ago.

70kg - I would move Alirez to Tier 2 and all the those below Tier 3 up one tier. It is possible that Alirez is just too small for 70kg and perfectly sized for 65kg though... I am very interested to see how Larkin and PJ Duke do against this competition. I would move Paniro up one tier as it is hard for me to picture him losing to Abas or Sheets but I could see him going with the Tier 2 guys. 

I actually had opposite thinking with Alirez.  Because I do think he is perfectly sized for 65 KG.  I am worried going up will be a detriment to his physical advantages (he didn't do too hot at 149lbs because of this a few years ago).  Of note: Alirez isn't in the Preseeds.  Johnson, I am not sold on at 70 KG (or 157lbs for that matter).

79kg - I would combine Tier 1 and 2. Something seems to have really clicked for Hunter Garvin but I think you probably have him tiered properly considering that Wick is at least 4 feet taller than him. I would slide Joey Bianchi down a tier. 

I don't see JB losing to anybody aside for Chance or Dieringer and I could see Carr or O'Toole beating Chance or Dieringer as well.  Just how I see it, though.  Wick is 4 feet taller.  It's baffling.  I once had a thought of 'What if we saw Pfarr, Wick, and Zillmer all enter a round robin at 97 KG.  Who would be taller?  Joe Bianchi was the larger/better brother wasn't he?  I thought he really came on towards the end of the season last year as well.

92kg - I hate to say it but Downey has to be at least Tier 5 but probably should be Tier 4. Taylor did not kill Zahid at final X 2022 so it is possible that Zahid should be Tier 2. That being said, if it is true that DT size for 86kg was a problem then he would be significantly bigger than Zahid.

I know we all have images of Downey having an early lead on Starocci, but two things to consider:  Starocci had a botched weight cut to 163lbs and decided the last week he was going 189lbs, so he was giving up a lot of size - still gassed him out of the tournament.  Starocci was also extremely hobbled/injured.  Do you recall the last time Downey went 92 KG?  He lost via Pin to Trumble.  The time before that he went 0W-2L at the Yasar.  He looked in phenomenal shape against Rockhold a few weeks ago.

Responses in bold.

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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Preseeds are out, gents...

https://www.themat.com/news/2024/september/10/men-s-freestyle-pre-seeds-released-for-senior-world-team-trials-in-omaha-this-weekend?utm_campaign=2024worldteamtrials&utm_medium=social&utm_source=x&utm_term=mensfreestylepreseedsforwtt&utm_content=article

Direct copy/paste:

61 kg Men’s Freestyle

Sit-out to Championship Series: Vito Arujau (Spartan Combat RTC/TMWC)

Pre-Seeds

1. Nahshon Garrett (LVWC/TMWC)
2. Daton Fix (Cowboy RTC/TMWC)
3. Austin Desanto (HWC/TMWC)
4. Seth Gross (Wisconsin RTC)
5. Marcus Blaze (Perrysburg WC)
6. Jax Forrest (Young Guns)
7. Nasir Bailey (Arkansas RTC)
8. Liam Cronin (Nebraska WTC)
9. Devan Turner (NYAC/Indiana RTC)
10. Michael Tortorice (Team Tortorice WC)
11. Nico Provo (Connecticut)
12. Kyle Burwick (Bison WC)

70 kg Men’s Freestyle

Pre-Seeds

1. Alec Pantaleo (CKWC/TMWC)
2. James Green (Nebraska WTC)
3. Jordan Oliver (NYAC)
4. PJ Duke (KD Training Center)
5. Jarrett Jacques (Tiger Style WC)
6. Evan Henderson (LVWC/TMWC)
7. Bryce Andonian (SERTC/TMWC)
8. Paniro Johnson (Cyclone RTC)
9. Yahya Thomas (NJRTC/TMWC)
10. Will Lewan (Cliff Keen WC)
11. Jakob Bergeland (Gopher WC)
12. Kaleb Larkin (Atreus WC)
13. Ian Parker (Cavalier WC)
14. Daniel Cardenas (Bear Cave WC)
15. Vince Bouzakis (Wyoming Seminary)
16. Wyatt Sheets (Cowboy RTC/TMWC)
17. Jaden Abas (California RTC)
18. Ryan Jack (Wolfpack WC/TMWC)
19. Jackson Arrington (Wolfpack WC/TMWC)
20. Dayne Morton (West Coast RTC)
21. Isaiah Delgado (Brunson UVRTC)

79 kg Men’s Freestyle

Pre-Seeds

1. Chance Marsteller (NJRTC/TMWC)
2. Jordan Burroughs (Pennsylvania RTC)
3. Alex Dieringer (CKWC/TMWC)
4. Keegan O’Toole (Tiger Style WC/TMWC)
5. David Carr (Cyclone RTC/TMWC)
6. Evan Wick (SoCal RTC/TMWC)
7. Hunter Garvin (Iowa)
8. Joey Lavallee  (Brunson UVRTC/TMWC)
9. Joey Bianchi (Arkansas RTC)
10. Kennedy Monday (NJRTC/TMWC)
11. Matthew Bianchi (Arkansas RTC)
12. Andrew Dickson (George Mason Univ.)
13. Noah Mulvaney (Buffalo Valley RTC)
14. Sam Beckett (Pennsylvania)
15. Demetrius Romero (Brunson UVRTC)
16. Clay Lautt (Tarheel WC)
17. Justin Grant (McDoubles Wrestling)

92 kg

Sit-out to Championship Series:  Zahid Valencia (Atreus WC)

Pre-Seeds

1. Trent Hidlay (Wolfpack WC/TMWC)
2. Jonathan Aiello (Pennsylvania RTC/TMWC)
3. Michael Macchiavello (LVWC/TMWC)
4. Eric Schultz (Nebraska WTC)
5. Aeoden Sinclair (Tiger Style WC)
6. Patrick Downey (NYAC)
7. Marcus Coleman (Cyclone RTC)
8. Cameron Caffey (Michigan WC)
9. Maximus Hale (Pennsylvania RTC)
10. Nick Stemmet (Illinois)
11. Zane Mulder (Burg Training Center)
12. Luke Duthie (Pennsylvania)
13. Eze Chukwuezi (Spartan Combat RTC)
14. Aidan Brenot (Bison WC)

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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Of note, gents:

Zane Mulder and Eze Chukwuezi could be sleepers for first round victories.  Both have had a lot of success in the lower divisions.

"I know actually nothing.  It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me

 

 

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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4 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

92 kg

Sit-out to Championship Series:  Zahid Valencia (Atreus WC)

Pre-Seeds

1. Trent Hidlay (Wolfpack WC/TMWC)
2. Jonathan Aiello (Pennsylvania RTC/TMWC)
3. Michael Macchiavello (LVWC/TMWC)
4. Eric Schultz (Nebraska WTC)
5. Aeoden Sinclair (Tiger Style WC)
6. Patrick Downey (NYAC)
7. Marcus Coleman (Cyclone RTC)
8. Cameron Caffey (Michigan WC)
9. Maximus Hale (Pennsylvania RTC)
10. Nick Stemmet (Illinois)
11. Zane Mulder (Burg Training Center)
12. Luke Duthie (Pennsylvania)
13. Eze Chukwuezi (Spartan Combat RTC)
14. Aidan Brenot (Bison WC)

If David Taylor shows up... we get Hidlay - Downey (potentially).

92 kg

Sit-out to Championship Series:  Zahid Valencia (Atreus WC)

Pre-Seeds

1. David Taylor (Cowboy RTC)
2. Trent Hidlay (Wolfpack WC/TMWC)
3. Jonathan Aiello (Pennsylvania RTC/TMWC)
4. Michael Macchiavello (LVWC/TMWC)
5. Eric Schultz (Nebraska WTC)
6. Aeoden Sinclair (Tiger Style WC)
7. Patrick Downey (NYAC)
8. Marcus Coleman (Cyclone RTC)
9. Cameron Caffey (Michigan WC)
10. Maximus Hale (Pennsylvania RTC)
11. Nick Stemmet (Illinois)
12. Zane Mulder (Burg Training Center)
13. Luke Duthie (Pennsylvania)
14. Eze Chukwuezi (Spartan Combat RTC)
15. Aidan Brenot (Bison WC)

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"I know actually nothing.  It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me

 

 

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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6 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

61 kg Men’s Freestyle

Sit-out to Championship Series: Vito Arujau (Spartan Combat RTC/TMWC)

Pre-Seeds

1. Nahshon Garrett (LVWC/TMWC)
2. Daton Fix (Cowboy RTC/TMWC)
3. Austin Desanto (HWC/TMWC)
4. Seth Gross (Wisconsin RTC)
5. Marcus Blaze (Perrysburg WC)
6. Jax Forrest (Young Guns)
7. Nasir Bailey (Arkansas RTC)
8. Liam Cronin (Nebraska WTC)
9. Devan Turner (NYAC/Indiana RTC)
10. Michael Tortorice (Team Tortorice WC)
11. Nico Provo (Connecticut)
12. Kyle Burwick (Bison WC)

If Gilman takes the mat, I think you either slot him in just behind Gross or just in front of Fix.  He did just beat Fix, but it was at 57 KG.  He lost to Gross at 61 KG, even if it was a bullshit of a RefJob - it was also 4 years ago.

1. Nahshon Garrett (LVWC/TMWC)
2. Thomas Gilman (Cowboy RTC)
3. Daton Fix (Cowboy RTC/TMWC)
4. Austin Desanto (HWC/TMWC)
5. Seth Gross (Wisconsin RTC)
6. Marcus Blaze (Perrysburg WC)
7. Jax Forrest (Young Guns)
8. Nasir Bailey (Arkansas RTC)
9. Liam Cronin (Nebraska WTC)
10. Devan Turner (NYAC/Indiana RTC)
11. Michael Tortorice (Team Tortorice WC)
12. Nico Provo (Connecticut)
13. Kyle Burwick (Bison WC)

OR

1. Nahshon Garrett (LVWC/TMWC)
2. Daton Fix (Cowboy RTC/TMWC)
3. Austin Desanto (HWC/TMWC)
4. Seth Gross (Wisconsin RTC)
5. Thomas Gilman (Cowboy RTC)
6. Marcus Blaze (Perrysburg WC)
7. Jax Forrest (Young Guns)
8. Nasir Bailey (Arkansas RTC)
9. Liam Cronin (Nebraska WTC)
10. Devan Turner (NYAC/Indiana RTC)
11. Michael Tortorice (Team Tortorice WC)
12. Nico Provo (Connecticut)
13. Kyle Burwick (Bison WC)

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Truzzcat NCAA All-American

Truzzcat

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Feels like both Blaze and Forrest can make the semis with those draws. I know Jax and desanto have wrestled but Desantos style could play right into jax's game. Desanto could just straight overpower him. I think Blaze beats gross. 

Sign me up for an early round Larkin vs Duke

Very bad draw for PD3

Seems like a great spot for JO

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

79 kg Men’s Freestyle

Pre-Seeds

1. Chance Marsteller (NJRTC/TMWC)
2. Jordan Burroughs (Pennsylvania RTC)
3. Alex Dieringer (CKWC/TMWC)
4. Keegan O’Toole (Tiger Style WC/TMWC)
5. David Carr (Cyclone RTC/TMWC)
6. Evan Wick (SoCal RTC/TMWC)
7. Hunter Garvin (Iowa)
8. Joey Lavallee  (Brunson UVRTC/TMWC)
9. Joey Bianchi (Arkansas RTC)
10. Kennedy Monday (NJRTC/TMWC)
11. Matthew Bianchi (Arkansas RTC)
12. Andrew Dickson (George Mason Univ.)
13. Noah Mulvaney (Buffalo Valley RTC)
14. Sam Beckett (Pennsylvania)
15. Demetrius Romero (Brunson UVRTC)
16. Clay Lautt (Tarheel WC)
17. Justin Grant (McDoubles Wrestling)

 

Does Levi Haines get thrown in as #18 or does he get seeded?  Where?

My guess would be in the #7-9 range.

Edited by nhs67

"I know actually nothing.  It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me

 

 

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Interviewed_at_Weehawken Big Brain

Interviewed_at_Weehawken

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19 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Greetings All,

I figured doing a 'tiers' list for the current entries for WTT this coming weekend would be appropriate and fun.

Keep in mind a few of the following:
- These are MY tiers.  I welcome you to challenge them, however I also challenge you to create your own.  I would love to see that.  I can also be swayed, if you make a compelling and logical argument.  Calling me a big stupidhead might work as well.
- These are as of approximately midday of 9/10/24.
- As most of you know/remember, my tiers are that you can win or lose to someone in your tier or a tier directly adjacent.  It would not be expected of you to defeat someone more than one tier above you or lose to someone more than one tier below you, unless injury, Pinfellery, or something along unexpected takes place.  NO TIER simply means I either don't know enough about them or don't expect them to defeat anyone aside for NO TIER gents - all due respects.
- Have fun!  This one is non-negotiable.

61 KG

Tier 1
Daton Fix, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC/TMWC
*Vitali Arujau, New York - SPARTAN COMBAT RTC/TMWC

Tier 2
Seth Gross, Minnesota - Wisconsin Regional Training Center
**Nahshon Garrett, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC
Austin DeSanto, Pennsylvania - HWC/TMWC

Tier 3
Jax Forrest, Pennsylvania - Young Guns
Nasir Bailey, Illinois - Arkansas Regional Training Center
Marcus Blaze, Ohio - Perrysburg Wrestling Club

Tier 4
Liam Cronin, Nebraska - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center

Tier 5
Nico Provo, Connecticut - Connecticut
Michael Tortorice, Illinois - Team Tortorice Wrestling Club

NO TIER
Devan Turner, Indiana - NYAC/Indiana RTC
Kyle Burwick, North Dakota - Bison Wrestling Club

*Arujau is sitting out the the Best of Three Finals
**Garrett could allow anybody to put 15 points on him.

70 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Oliver, North Carolina - NYAC
James Green, Nebraska - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center

Tier 2
Alec Pantaleo, Michigan - CKWC/TMWC

Tier 3
Andrew Alirez, Colorado - NCWC/TMWC
*Bryce Andonian, Ohio - SERTC/TMWC

Tier 4
Yahya Thomas, Illinois - NJRTC/TMWC
Kaleb Larkin, Arizona - Atreus Wrestling Club
Evan Henderson, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC
Jarrett Jacques, Missouri - Tiger Style Wrestling Club
Daniel Cardenas, Colorado - Bear Cave Wrestling Club
PJ Duke, New York - KD Training Center
**Will Lewan, Illinois - Cliff Keen Wrestling Club

Tier 5
Ian Parker, Virginia - Cavalier Wrestling Club
Ryan Jack, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/TMWC
Jackson Arrington , Pennsylvania - WOLFPACK WC/TMWC
Paniro Johnson, Pennsylvania - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC
Jakob Bergeland, Minnesota - Gopher Wrestling Club

Tier 6
Jaden Abas, California - California Regional Training Center (CA RTC)
Wyatt Sheets, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC/TMWC

NO TIER
Vince Bouzakis, Pennsylvania - Wyoming Seminary
Dayne Morton, Minnesota - West Coast Regional Training Center
Isaiah Delgado, Utah - Brunson UVRTC

*Andonian could pin anybody or get pinned by anybody
**Lewan could defeat anybody 1-1 or lose to anybody 1-1

79 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Burroughs, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC

Tier 2
Alex Dieringer, Oklahoma - CKWC/TMWC
Chance Marsteller, Pennsylvania - NJRTC/TMWC

Tier 3
David Carr, Iowa - Cyclone RTC/TMWC
Keegan O'Toole, Missouri - Tiger Style WC/ TMWC

Tier 4
Evan Wick, California - SoCal RTC/TMWC

Tier 5
*EMPTY

Tier 6
Clay Lautt, North Carolina - Tar Heel Wrsetling Club
Kennedy Monday, North Carolina - NJRTC/TMWC
Joey Lavallee, Pennsylvania - Brunson UVRTC/TMWC
**Hunter Garvin, Iowa - Iowa
Joey Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center

Tier 7
Matthew Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center
Noah Mulvaney, Wisconsin - Buffalo Valley Regional Training Center
Demetrius Romero, Idaho - Brunson UVRTC

NO TIER
Sam Beckett, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania
Andrew Dickson, North Carolina - George Mason University
Justin Grant, Florida - McDoubles Wrestling

*I know there is an EMPTY one there.  That is deliberate.
**Before anybody freaks out, Garvin is from Iowa City.  Chill.

92 KG

Tier 1
David Taylor, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC
(IF he shows, he is a lock)

Tier 2
EMPTY

Tier 3
Zahid Valencia, Arizona - Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club

Tier 4
Trent Hidlay, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/ MWC

Tier 5
Jonathan Aiello, Virginia - PENN RTC/TMWC
Eric Schultz, Illinois - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center
Michael Macchiavello, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC

Tier 6
*Aeoden Sinclair, Wisconsin - Tiger Style Wrestling Club
Marcus Coleman, Iowa - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC

Tier 7
**Pat Downey, Maryland - NYAC
Maximus Hale, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC
Zane Mulder, Iowa - Burg Training Center
Eze Chukwuezi, New York - Spartan Combat RTC
Cameron Caffey, Illinois - Michigan Wrestling Club
Nick Stemmet, Illinois - Illinois

NO TIER
Aidan Brenot, Tennessee - Bison Wrestling Club
Luke Duthie, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania

*I am seriously worried that Sinclair will be undersized.  I nearly put Coleman alone here.
**Deep-Lunged-Downey could be as high as Tier 4.  Natty-Ice-Downey could be as low as Tier 104.  Which will show up?

 

DISCUSS

I'm not usually one to nitpick, but "Burwikk" is spelled incorrectly.

Honestly, nice job and thanks for your efforts.

Edited by Interviewed_at_Weehawken
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VakAttack Big Brain

VakAttack

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61 kg:  I'd put Blaze in tier 2.

70 kg:  Tier 1 should be only Green and Pantaleo.  Oliver out of the game too long to be automatically back in that tier.

79 kg:  KOT, Dieringer, and Carr all tier 2 to me.  No reason (yet) to put KOT in Tier 1, IMO.

92 kg:  Until we see DT and how he looks, I think him vs. Zahid is definitely a thing.  Zahid came closer to beating Brooks (and arguably should have beaten him) than DT did.  DT may have just gotten old.

 

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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On 9/10/2024 at 2:04 PM, nhs67 said:

79 KG

Tier 1
Jordan Burroughs, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC

Tier 2
Alex Dieringer, Oklahoma - CKWC/TMWC
Chance Marsteller, Pennsylvania - NJRTC/TMWC

Tier 3
David Carr, Iowa - Cyclone RTC/TMWC
Keegan O'Toole, Missouri - Tiger Style WC/ TMWC

Tier 4
Evan Wick, California - SoCal RTC/TMWC
Levi Haines, Pennsylvania - NLWC

Tier 5
*EMPTY

Tier 6
Clay Lautt, North Carolina - Tar Heel Wrsetling Club
Kennedy Monday, North Carolina - NJRTC/TMWC
Joey Lavallee, Pennsylvania - Brunson UVRTC/TMWC
**Hunter Garvin, Iowa - Iowa
Joey Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center

Tier 7
Matthew Bianchi, Wisconsin - Arkansas Regional Training Center
Noah Mulvaney, Wisconsin - Buffalo Valley Regional Training Center
Demetrius Romero, Idaho - Brunson UVRTC

NO TIER
Sam Beckett, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania
Andrew Dickson, North Carolina - George Mason University
Justin Grant, Florida - McDoubles Wrestling

*I know there is an EMPTY one there.  That is deliberate.
**Before anybody freaks out, Garvin is from Iowa City.  Chill.

92 KG

Tier 1
David Taylor, Oklahoma - COWBOY RTC
(IF he shows, he is a lock)

Tier 2
EMPTY

Tier 3
Zahid Valencia, Arizona - Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club

Tier 4
Trent Hidlay, North Carolina - WOLFPACK WC/ MWC

Tier 5
Jonathan Aiello, Virginia - PENN RTC/TMWC
Eric Schultz, Illinois - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center
Michael Macchiavello, Pennsylvania - LVWC/TMWC

Tier 6
*Aeoden Sinclair, Wisconsin - Tiger Style Wrestling Club
Marcus Coleman, Iowa - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC
Cole Mirasola, Wisconsin - NLWC
Connor Mirasola, Wisconsin - NLWC

Tier 7
**Pat Downey, Maryland - NYAC
Maximus Hale, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania RTC
Zane Mulder, Iowa - Burg Training Center
Eze Chukwuezi, New York - Spartan Combat RTC
Cameron Caffey, Illinois - Michigan Wrestling Club
Nick Stemmet, Illinois - Illinois

NO TIER
Aidan Brenot, Tennessee - Bison Wrestling Club
Luke Duthie, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania

*I am seriously worried that Sinclair will be undersized.  I nearly put Coleman alone here.
**Deep-Lunged-Downey could be as high as Tier 4.  Natty-Ice-Downey could be as low as Tier 104.  Which will show up?

Added the Mirasola brothers and Haines to the tier list.  I know one of the Mirasola brothers entered then pulled, but I left him on there.

Below is where I might put them both (for seeds).

On 9/10/2024 at 4:02 PM, nhs67 said:

79 kg Men’s Freestyle

Pre-Seeds

1. Chance Marsteller (NJRTC/TMWC)
2. Jordan Burroughs (Pennsylvania RTC)
3. Alex Dieringer (CKWC/TMWC)
4. Keegan O’Toole (Tiger Style WC/TMWC)
5. David Carr (Cyclone RTC/TMWC)
6. Evan Wick (SoCal RTC/TMWC)
7. Levi Haines (NLWC)
8. Hunter Garvin (Iowa)
9. Joey Lavallee  (Brunson UVRTC/TMWC)
10. Joey Bianchi (Arkansas RTC)
11. Kennedy Monday (NJRTC/TMWC)
12. Matthew Bianchi (Arkansas RTC)
13. Andrew Dickson (George Mason Univ.)
14. Noah Mulvaney (Buffalo Valley RTC)
15. Sam Beckett (Pennsylvania)
16. Demetrius Romero (Brunson UVRTC)
17. Clay Lautt (Tarheel WC)
18. Justin Grant (McDoubles Wrestling)

92 kg

Sit-out to Championship Series:  Zahid Valencia (Atreus WC)

Pre-Seeds

1. David Taylor (Cowboy RTC)
2. Trent Hidlay (Wolfpack WC/TMWC)
3. Jonathan Aiello (Pennsylvania RTC/TMWC)
4. Michael Macchiavello (LVWC/TMWC)
5. Eric Schultz (Nebraska WTC)
6. Aeoden Sinclair (Tiger Style WC)
7. Connor Mirasola (NLWC)
8. Patrick Downey (NYAC)
9. Marcus Coleman (Cyclone RTC)
10. Cameron Caffey (Michigan WC)
11. Maximus Hale (Pennsylvania RTC)
12. Cole Mirasola (NLWC)
13. Nick Stemmet (Illinois)
14. Zane Mulder (Burg Training Center)
15. Luke Duthie (Pennsylvania)
16. Eze Chukwuezi (Spartan Combat RTC)
17. Aidan Brenot (Bison WC)

For clarity, it was Cole (the larger brother) is the one that was entered last night, then this morning is not entered.

Edited by nhs67
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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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12 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

I'm excited to see what connor can do, Levi does not move the needle a ton for me but its exciting to get a sneak peek of him at 174.

I am not sure how they will seed gents who entered after 'pre' seeds were released.  I do hope they do actually re-seed.  If not, and you slide Haines in at 18, that would put him up against a large, multiple time NQ at 174lbs in Utah Valley's Romero then Burroughs.

Romero was always as solid as they come, just had a lot of injury problems.  If he is healthy and has been putting in the work, it could be a helluva welcome to 174lbs (79 KG).

As far as Connor, we have already seen what he can do at 86 KG against most of this field.  He did get the first takedown on Aaron Brooks, something that no other 197lber in the country was able to do throughout the entire NCAA season.

OTT
- David McFadden win via DEC 4 - 0
- Aaron Brooks loss via DEC 11 - 5
- Max Dean loss via TECH 12 - 2

US Open
- Justin Rademacher won via DEC 5 - 0

Senior Nationals
- Owen Webster won via DEC 7 - 1
- Max Dean won via DEC 9 - 6
- Mark Hall loss via DEC 9 - 2
- Evan Wick won via DEC 5 - 4
- Max Dean loss via DEC 8 - 4

Bill Farrell
- Evan Wick won VIA Pinfellery
- Alex Dieringer loss via DEC 9-3
- Mark Hall loss via DEC 4-1

I don't see him being able to beat a Hidlay or a Taylor, but there is no reason to believe that he won't be right there with the rest of them, if not beating them soundly.  He is coming off a 'down' performance at U20s, but he has been at this weight and preparing for this weight for some time now.

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"I know actually nothing.  It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me

 

 

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Truzzcat NCAA All-American

Truzzcat

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Posted
23 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I am not sure how they will seed gents who entered after 'pre' seeds were released.  I do hope they do actually re-seed.  If not, and you slide Haines in at 18, that would put him up against a large, multiple time NQ at 174lbs in Utah Valley's Romero then Burroughs.

Romero was always as solid as they come, just had a lot of injury problems.  If he is healthy and has been putting in the work, it could be a helluva welcome to 174lbs (79 KG).

As far as Connor, we have already seen what he can do at 86 KG against most of this field.  He did get the first takedown on Aaron Brooks, something that no other 197lber in the country was able to do throughout the entire NCAA season.

OTT
- David McFadden win via DEC 4 - 0
- Aaron Brooks loss via DEC 11 - 5
- Max Dean loss via TECH 12 - 2

US Open
- Justin Rademacher won via DEC 5 - 0

Senior Nationals
- Owen Webster won via DEC 7 - 1
- Max Dean won via DEC 9 - 6
- Mark Hall loss via DEC 9 - 2
- Evan Wick won via DEC 5 - 4
- Max Dean loss via DEC 8 - 4

Bill Farrell
- Evan Wick won VIA Pinfellery
- Alex Dieringer loss via DEC 9-3
- Mark Hall loss via DEC 4-1

I don't see him being able to beat a Hidlay or a Taylor, but there is no reason to believe that he won't be right there with the rest of them, if not beating them soundly.  He is coming off a 'down' performance at U20s, but he has been at this weight and preparing for this weight for some time now.

The Radamacher win has aged like fine wine other than the brooks loss that may stand out the most to me. Obviously, dean is more accomplished but hard to say how hard he was training. I think he probably falls right behind Aiello and mike mach in the pecking order for me.

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nhs67 Big Brain

nhs67

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51 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

The Radamacher win has aged like fine wine other than the brooks loss that may stand out the most to me. Obviously, dean is more accomplished but hard to say how hard he was training. I think he probably falls right behind Aiello and mike mach in the pecking order for me.

Keep in mind that both Aiello and Macch are both coming back down from 97 KG.  The effect can be beneficial or negative.

"I know actually nothing.  It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me

 

 

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