Who Will Increase Deficit Spending The Most?

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, mspart said:

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/

Here's the deal, no need to argue.

mspart

... but it ain't fair!  

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

im just using that 'trusted' search engine google

A start. Then it helps to understand what you are reading and follow it up with critical thinking.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/

Here's the deal, no need to argue.

mspart

You guys do not seem to understand the difference between income and assets. AGI is not assets. The proposed tax (which will never get passed) is on appreciated assets.

[mspart]

Yes, and that info is not available that I know of.    The question was starting to hinge on the 1% and what they pay.   The table was added to show what the IRS says on the subject. 

mspart

[Scouts Honor]

top 1% pay around 1 trillion

top 5% pay about 1.4 trillion... 

bottom 50% pays about  51 Billion

 

the budget is approx. 4 Trillion

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

Yes, and that info is not available that I know of.    The question was starting to hinge on the 1% and what they pay.   The table was added to show what the IRS says on the subject. 

mspart

Nope. The question was always about the Biden-Harris proposal to tax unrealized gains for billionnaires.

As people like to do around here when they do not know what they are talking about, they attempted to "prove" that billionaires pay the majority of taxes by posting a stat that not even the 1% highest earners pay a majority of taxes. Never mind that the top 1% of earners by AGI does not equate in any way to the 800 billionaires in the US. Just a bunch of foolishness.

Even that 800 billionaires is an overstatement. It includes people who do not have a billion or more, but could be said to be worth a billion on a capitalized basis.

For example, Taylor Swift is a newly minted "billionaire" even though she does not have a billion dollars. However, if she were to sell the rights to her future royalties and concert revenue she would likely be able to do so for about a billion dollars, so Forbes puts her on their billionaires list. There are a lot of this kind of "billionaires" in this category. None of these would be covered.

So, now we are talking about a lot less than 800 people the tax would apply to. Even if all of those people are in the 1% by AGI (they are not, which is the point of the proposal) they constitute a whopping 0.0005% of the 153.6 million taxpayers. So if the top 1% pay 45% of total taxes, then clearly any 0.0005% do not pay the majority of taxes.

[Scouts Honor]

should we assume that in the chart the top 5% INCLUDES the top 1%?

i think we should

this means.. the top 1% pays 1 Trillion

while 2-5% pays .4 trillion.

quite a difference

the top 10% pays 1.6 Trillion

so 6-10 % pays only .2 trillion

 

if im wrong about that... let me know.

but i think it shows.... 

[Wrestleknownothing]

26 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

should we assume that in the chart the top 5% INCLUDES the top 1%?

i think we should

this means.. the top 1% pays 1 Trillion

while 2-5% pays .4 trillion.

quite a difference

the top 10% pays 1.6 Trillion

so 6-10 % pays only .2 trillion

 

if im wrong about that... let me know.

but i think it shows.... 

Are we all just now realizing that we have a progressive tax system?

[ionel]

45 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Nope. The question was always about the Biden-Harris proposal to tax unrealized gains for billionnaires.

How will B&H know who is a billionaire?  Will TS qualify, will Trump re appraise his assets ...  

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

How will B&H know who is a billionaire?  Will TS qualify, will Trump re appraise his assets ...  

With the right growth and interest rate assumptions we are all billionaires.

[ionel]

Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

With the right growth and interest rate assumptions we are all billionaires.

exactly but let's go after those nasty millionaires like Bernie first.  

[Offthemat]

I see a couple of roadblocks:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

 

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

I see a couple of roadblocks:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

 

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Roadblocks to what?

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Roadblocks to what?

Taxing assets/capital gains.

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Roadblocks to what?

Veep thoughts. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Taxing assets/capital gains.

He clearly could not have meant that it is a roadblock to something that has been going on since 1913. That is why I asked for clarification.

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Veep thoughts. 

I don't know what that means. But I am not alone. It is clear you don't know either.

[Offthemat]

17 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I don't know what that means. But I am not alone. It is clear you don't know either.

I understand. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I understand. 

All evidence to the contrary

[Offthemat]

Haha.  Magic eight ball approach. 

[mspart]

15 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Nope. The question was always about the Biden-Harris proposal to tax unrealized gains for billionnaires.

As people like to do around here when they do not know what they are talking about, they attempted to "prove" that billionaires pay the majority of taxes by posting a stat that not even the 1% highest earners pay a majority of taxes. Never mind that the top 1% of earners by AGI does not equate in any way to the 800 billionaires in the US. Just a bunch of foolishness.

Even that 800 billionaires is an overstatement. It includes people who do not have a billion or more, but could be said to be worth a billion on a capitalized basis.

For example, Taylor Swift is a newly minted "billionaire" even though she does not have a billion dollars. However, if she were to sell the rights to her future royalties and concert revenue she would likely be able to do so for about a billion dollars, so Forbes puts her on their billionaires list. There are a lot of this kind of "billionaires" in this category. None of these would be covered.

So, now we are talking about a lot less than 800 people the tax would apply to. Even if all of those people are in the 1% by AGI (they are not, which is the point of the proposal) they constitute a whopping 0.0005% of the 153.6 million taxpayers. So if the top 1% pay 45% of total taxes, then clearly any 0.0005% do not pay the majority of taxes.

Sorry Know Nothing.   The topic at the time I posted was talking about billionaires and 1%.   And there was argument about that.   So I thought it a good thing to put in facts and data from the US government to clear up the confusion.   Sorry I got your knickers in a bunch. 

mspart

[uncle bernard]

14 hours ago, Offthemat said:

I see a couple of roadblocks:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

 

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This does not outlaw taxes...obviously. 

We already do this btw. They're called property taxes.

[Scouts Honor]

15 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Are we all just now realizing that we have a progressive tax system?

so think about it..

are the wealthiest paying most of the taxes or not

we keep hearing soak the rich...

[Scouts Honor]

15 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

With the right growth and interest rate assumptions we are all billionaires.

so they wont know will they

[Scouts Honor]

warren doesn't understand it either