Harris Nomination. Coup or Not?

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, Offthemat said:

I doubt that my take will change many minds, but a few pollsters have said that it is very difficult to get polls on Trump right.  He outperformed his polling in both elections.  I simply don’t believe the majority of voters are any more fooled by the magic transformation of Kamela the dunce to Kamela the wonderful than I am   It’s as though they’ve adopted the James Carville strategy of “It’s the economy, stupid.” to “Don’t say anything, stupid.”  My only concern is that if they continue to Election Day with her it means they are confident in their cheating programs. 

The problem is that Trump was up 5-8 points against Biden in swing states and is now down 2-4 against Harris. That’s a huge swing, and he went from more likely to win to more likely to lose. If they switch to Desantis or Haley-they turn the tables completely and gain all the momentum back. They could do it right after the democratic convention in the exact same way the democrats did. 

It’s not even Trump’s fault. He made the entire election against Biden about age, which was a winning strategy, but it has completely fallen apart because now he’s the old one. 

 

Edited August 15 by billyhoyle

[WrestlingRasta]

Doesn't matter, this race is over and come January the GOP will have done exactly what I have been saying was going to happen the last 5 years............drive away enough moderate conservatives (like myself) to the point the democrats are going to have a strong hold on all three houses, and while MAGA plays their fun games, conservative policy goes by the way side in our government.  

 

You don't have to like or give any weight to my opinion, but I would recommend maybe listening to people who have been doing GOP polling a very long time and understands these things as well as anyone.  Here are some quotes from Frank Luntz:

 

“She’s bringing out people who are not interested in voting for either Trump or Biden, so the entire electoral pool has changed and if it continues in this direction you have to start to consider Democrats winning the Senate and Democrats winning the House,” 

“She’s got intensity now. She’s got an intensity advantage. She’s got a demographic advantage and I haven’t seen anything like this happen in 30 days in my lifetime,” he said. “Now my groups are broken up by young women saying, ‘I’m not voting for him anymore.’”

He added: “The people who are undecided have all collapsed towards Harris. The people who are ‘weak’ Trump have all collapsed towards undecided.”

[Bigbrog]

27 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Doesn't matter, this race is over and come January the GOP will have done exactly what I have been saying was going to happen the last 5 years............drive away enough moderate conservatives (like myself) to the point the democrats are going to have a strong hold on all three houses, and while MAGA plays their fun games, conservative policy goes by the way side in our government.  

 

You don't have to like or give any weight to my opinion, but I would recommend maybe listening to people who have been doing GOP polling a very long time and understands these things as well as anyone.  Here are some quotes from Frank Luntz:

 

“She’s bringing out people who are not interested in voting for either Trump or Biden, so the entire electoral pool has changed and if it continues in this direction you have to start to consider Democrats winning the Senate and Democrats winning the House,” 

“She’s got intensity now. She’s got an intensity advantage. She’s got a demographic advantage and I haven’t seen anything like this happen in 30 days in my lifetime,” he said. “Now my groups are broken up by young women saying, ‘I’m not voting for him anymore.’”

He added: “The people who are undecided have all collapsed towards Harris. The people who are ‘weak’ Trump have all collapsed towards undecided.”

I tend to agree with this take Rasta...when it was Biden and Trump and after Trump got shot I thought man this is over and Trump will run away with this.  But when Biden stepped down and they threw Kamala out there I first thought it won't matter because I personally think she is not good...but after thinking about it and seeing the response...I thought those voting for Trump because of Biden's decline are going to switch back to Kamala, even if she isn't that good...she's neither Trump nor Biden.  Going to be a close race and if Trump keeps attacking it may be his downfall.

[WrestlingRasta]

I honestly don’t think it’s going to be close.  He’s going downhill quickly and it’s very visible.  We still have a couple more months of this decline and the more her numbers go up, the more visible it’s going to be.  

[Bigbrog]

33 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I honestly don’t think it’s going to be close.  He’s going downhill quickly and it’s very visible.  We still have a couple more months of this decline and the more her numbers go up, the more visible it’s going to be.  

You may be right.  However, what are the things he is going downhill so quickly that it is visible? 

He is Trump doing Trump things.  Guess I don't see a decline but rather just Trump being who he is and always has been.  Me personally, I felt if Trump would have changed after getting shot and tempered the attacks and softened his approach, he would have blown away the field no matter who the D's put out there.

[WrestlingRasta]

4 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

You may be right.  However, what are the things he is going downhill so quickly that it is visible? 

He is Trump doing Trump things.  Guess I don't see a decline but rather just Trump being who he is and always has been.  Me personally, I felt if Trump would have changed after getting shot and tempered the attacks and softened his approach, he would have blown away the field no matter who the D's put out there.

We all see things differently with our own different eyes.  I see more and more incoherent rambling, I see more and more speech that sounds like he’s not well, or not sober, and I see lies growing to the point of saying he’s going to do things he just simply cannot do. Not things he could do but don’t believe he will, things he has no power to do. I also see him tell one thing to a large crowd of middle class Americans, and then see him tell a completely different thing to a different class of Americans….smaller groups and not on network television. 
 

Just to answer your question. 

[Bigbrog]

Just now, WrestlingRasta said:

We all see things differently with our own different eyes.  I see more and more incoherent rambling, I see more and more speech that sounds like he’s not well, or not sober, and I see lies growing to the point of saying he’s going to do things he just simply cannot do. Not things he could do but don’t believe he will, things he has no power to do. I also see him tell one thing to a large crowd of middle class Americans, and then see him tell a completely different thing to a different class of Americans….smaller groups and not on network television. 
 

Just to answer your question. 

Fair enough!

[Scouts Honor]

11 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

The problem is that Trump was up 5-8 points against Biden in swing states and is now down 2-4 against Harris. That’s a huge swing, and he went from more likely to win to more likely to lose. If they switch to Desantis or Haley-they turn the tables completely and gain all the momentum back. They could do it right after the democratic convention in the exact same way the democrats did. 

It’s not even Trump’s fault. He made the entire election against Biden about age, which was a winning strategy, but it has completely fallen apart because now he’s the old one. 

 

i think you are right except the part about desantis

it wouldn't matter who ran for the GOP

they would find out he gave some woman cancer, or make it up..

 

the difference is the switching from biden to harris

in the eyes of the left: all GOP are as bad or worse than whoever the last guy was, regardless

[RockLobster]

On 8/15/2024 at 12:28 PM, Scouts Honor said:

i think you are right except the part about desantis

it wouldn't matter who ran for the GOP

they would find out he gave some woman cancer, or make it up..

 

the difference is the switching from biden to harris

in the eyes of the left: all GOP are as bad or worse than whoever the last guy was, regardless

Not even remotely true:

"In the eyes of the left" - Donald is an oversized spoiled child who throws temper tantrums and won't stop.

Moderate Democrats don't dislike Nikki Haley at all. And Desantis - he's not all that bad. Moderate Democrats have no problem with GOP competition. It's just politics and, for the most part, the governing doesn't change all that much either way.

The difference this year is the unhinged half-crazy and half-senile old Donald. If you listen to any of his rambling nonsensical tirades, it's obvious he isn't mentally stable. His senior advisors tell him to say something meaningful and useful - but he can't do it. A zebra can't change its stripes. He's a mean spirited old bastard that needs to go.

 

[Scouts Honor]

8 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Not even remotely true:

"In the eyes of the left" - Donald is an oversized spoiled child who throws temper tantrums and won't stop.

Moderate Democrats don't dislike Nikki Haley at all. And Desantis - he's not all that bad. Moderate Democrats have no problem with GOP competition. It's just politics and, for the most part, the governing doesn't change all that much either way.

The difference this year is the unhinged half-crazy and half-senile old Donald. If you listen to any of his rambling nonsensical tirades, it's obvious he isn't mentally stable. His senior advisors tell him to say something meaningful and useful - but he can't do it. A zebra can't change its stripes. He's a mean spirited old bastard that needs to go.

 

how quickly you forget.

romney gave a woman cancer

 

[Scouts Honor]

more of the same

...we have to pass it to find out whats in it

 

[152lbs]

There is nothing in the rules that states a convention has to be contested or that the primaries have to be reopened.  An incumbant dropping out this late in the game has never happened that I know of.  The VP does make for the most likely front runner. And the delegates were free to choose others but for the sake of continuity and a singular goal of beating trump nominated Harris.  She will make for a far better President than trump.

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

There is nothing in the rules that states a convention has to be contested or that the primaries have to be reopened.  An incumbant dropping out this late in the game has never happened that I know of.  The VP does make for the most likely front runner. And the delegates were free to choose others but for the sake of continuity and a singular goal of beating trump nominated Harris.  She will make for a far better President than trump.

I'd say whoever has the second most votes makes the front runner but doesn't mean that's what Dems have to do, look what they did with Bernie and Gabbard.  There's nothing to indicate she will make a better President.  

[Scouts Honor]

if i remember right, the DELEGATES chose bernie in 2016

but something happened

[152lbs]

No, you don't remember right.  Bernie never had more delegates than Clinton in 2016.  It was just sour grapes and revisionist history.  And by virtue of the fact that trump refused to scede peacefully, that alone makes Harris a better candidate.  2024 was an uncontested primary, so the results of the 2020 nomination hold no value today.

[Paul158]

21 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

There is nothing in the rules that states a convention has to be contested or that the primaries have to be reopened.  An incumbant dropping out this late in the game has never happened that I know of.  The VP does make for the most likely front runner. And the delegates were free to choose others but for the sake of continuity and a singular goal of beating trump nominated Harris.  She will make for a far better President than trump.

Kamala was in charge of fixing the border. How is that going? Kamala and Joe had 4 years of screwing things up. Now Kamala says she wants 4 more years to fix the things she helped screw up. Please vote for her. I firmly believe she is the right person for the job. 

[Paul158]

3 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

No, you don't remember right.  Bernie never had more delegates than Clinton in 2016.  It was just sour grapes and revisionist history.  And by virtue of the fact that trump refused to scede peacefully, that alone makes Harris a better candidate.  2024 was an uncontested primary, so the results of the 2020 nomination hold no value today.

You might want to do a little more research on Clinton and Bernie in 2016. Dig a little deeper. 

[152lbs]

She had more delegates.  Try again.

[Paul158]

3 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

She had more delegates.  Try again.

Even Elizabeth Warren Said there were some really big issues with the process. Do a deeper research. There are many democrats who believe Bernie got shafted in the process. I am not trying to be contentious. There are a good number of articles by the liberal media and democrats in general on this subject.

[152lbs]

Again, Clinton had more delegates.  You can claim to be as non contentious as you like.  The fact still remains that Hillary Clinton won the nomination despite a closer than anticipated race.  Sanders had no path to the nomination.

[ionel]

23 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

She had more delegates.  Try again.

Well of course she did and Bill never had sex with that woman.  

[152lbs]

It's a dead horse.  Now we are talking about the Harris nomination.  Pushing Biden out was sort of a mini coup after his horrible debate (while likely sick with covid).  His nomination was not contested and thus there was no other primary results to fall back on.  In this situation, Harris made for the logical front runner and for the sake of unity and short notice, no one else threw their hat in the ring.  That was well within the rules.  Biden's delegates did become free agents, but with no one else running they pushed their support to Harris.  Again, all well within the rules.  The only ones calling sour grapes are Republicans hoping to sow chaos within the Democratic Party ranks.  Maybe they should look at their own chaotic ticket with the faux hillbilly and the increasingly decrypt ornage guy.

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

It's a dead horse.  Now we are talking about the Harris nomination.  Pushing Biden out was sort of a mini coup after his horrible debate (while likely sick with covid).  His nomination was not contested and thus there was no other primary results to fall back on.  In this situation, Harris made for the logical front runner and for the sake of unity and short notice, no one else threw their hat in the ring.  That was well within the rules.  Biden's delegates did become free agents, but with no one else running they pushed their support to Harris.  Again, all well within the rules.  The only ones calling sour grapes are Republicans hoping to sow chaos within the Democratic Party ranks.  Maybe they should look at their own chaotic ticket with the faux hillbilly and the increasingly decrypt ornage guy.

But if it was just covid then why push him out?  Its a short term thing and there's a shot for that.  

[Paul158]

38 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

Again, Clinton had more delegates.  You can claim to be as non contentious as you like.  The fact still remains that Hillary Clinton won the nomination despite a closer than anticipated race.  Sanders had no path to the nomination.

Had Hillary and her fellow partners not messed with the rules and the process in order to get the nomination she might have beat Donald Trump. She really pissed off a good number of Bernie supporters during the primaries. I believe she lost their support. In turn lost the election.

Edited August 18 by Paul158
missed a word.

[152lbs]

Sorry, this horse is dead, gone, and already used as elmer's glue.  Carry on without me.