The Brands'should have trained the team

[Hammerlock3]

Well the NLWC knows how to get guys on the team but I guess we know they aren't delivering where it counts! Compared to Lee who obviously had solid game plans the whole tournament its night and day! And then with the years they spent guiding lee through his injuries, its probably the coaching performance of the decade!

[1032004]

Did you mean to say Terry Steiner?

[DoubleKneePad]

0-3 in semis for NLWC guess they only show up for NCAA semis 

[scribers]

These RTC are just ncaa recruiting devices. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

If you told me before the Games that Spencer, with his injury history and in his 1st year of international senior wrestling, would outplace everyone else on this team of veterans, I would have given you a cookie 

[peanut]

Burroughs has ruined your expectations. It's not normal for a dude to rack up gold after gold. You guys started think your favorite NCAA guy could do the same. Nearly 100% of the time, it's just not so.

[billyhoyle]

43 minutes ago, peanut said:

Burroughs has ruined your expectations. It's not normal for a dude to rack up gold after gold. You guys started think your favorite NCAA guy could do the same. Nearly 100% of the time, it's just not so.

Who do we expect to do that? 

[VakAttack]

20 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Who do we expect to do that? 

I would say that many, me included, thought Dake was just as good as Burroughs, and I think we know that's not true.  He's still awesome, but this does reaffirm the specialness of prime Burroughs.

[billyhoyle]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I would say that many, me included, thought Dake was just as good as Burroughs, and I think we know that's not true.  He's still awesome, but this does reaffirm the specialness of prime Burroughs.

Anything can happen at the Olympics. JB “only” won it once. What is surprising to me is that nobody won though, especially with only expat Russians competing. 
 

The “acceptable” opinion though is that everything is great and no changes need to be made. 

Edited August 10 by billyhoyle

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

If you told me before the Games that Spencer, with his injury history and in his 1st year of international senior wrestling, would outplace everyone else on this team of veterans, I would have given you a cookie 

Chocolate Peanut Butter Cookie?  Because I'm pretty sure I said those exact words to you 

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, peanut said:

Burroughs has ruined your expectations. It's not normal for a dude to rack up gold after gold. You guys started think your favorite NCAA guy could do the same. Nearly 100% of the time, it's just not so.

Jordan only won One Olympic gold.  Goes to show how hard the Olympics is

[Mr. PeanutButter]

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Chocolate Peanut Butter Cookie?  Because I'm pretty sure I said those exact words to you 

Word? I'll make sure to bring cookies with me to LA

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I would say that many, me included, thought Dake was just as good as Burroughs, and I think we know that's not true.  He's still awesome, but this does reaffirm the specialness of prime Burroughs.

Well considering Dake couldn’t beat what most would consider prime Burroughs, I don’t think many people thought that.  Many probably thought he was still better than everyone in the world though.  

[1032004]

8 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Anything can happen at the Olympics. JB “only” won it once. What is surprising to me is that nobody won though, especially with only expat Russians competing. 
 

The “acceptable” opinion though is that everything is great and no changes need to be made. 

What changes do you think need to be made?

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Well considering Dake couldn’t beat what most would consider prime Burroughs, I don’t think many people thought that.  Many probably thought he was still better than everyone in the world though.  

I'm just admitting my own mistakes.  I believed taht the only reason Dake lost was because of the qualification procedure that kept giving Burroughs byes.  I thought there would have been more splitting of the appearances without that.  I think I was wrong.

[Folkster]

Brand's or Hawkeye's training would ensure there is gas in tank for the last 1:30 in the final period.

 

[billyhoyle]

Just now, 1032004 said:

What changes do you think need to be made?

1. More competition between RTCs. The NLWC has all the best guys, but with so many on one team, are they able to provide enough time to each athlete to scout international competition? I’m hoping Taylor can do this with OSU. Ohio RTC needs a resurgence, and HWC should be more than a 57 kg machine. 

2. More international competition early on. I think we need to incentivize our junior athletes to compete internationally to become more familiar with freestyle while they are developing. Junior worlds and U23 is not enough. The best NCAA guys should be entering senior international freestyle tournaments, and the RTCs should fund it. 
 

3. Switch folkstyle to freestyle. NCAA wrestling has been declining in popularity for a decade. Ratings are down, attendance is not what it used to be. With NIL, we are about to lose more programs. Women’s NCAA wrestling is starting up and is freestyle. The men should be doing freestyle as well. 
 

And I’m also open to thinking there are answers beyond this. But yeah, the general attitude seems to be this was a great performance as a team, so I doubt anything happens. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I wrestled in an excellent club (many world team members, several Olympic and world medals) way back when. Times were different, but my excellent coach advocated for 20+ international matches per year. I think he actually may have said 30. 
 

Not sure our guys still need 30, but maybe a few more than zero?

I recently listened to Kendall Cross talking about making the Olympic team in 92. He definitely thought our top guys hadn’t wrestled enough that year and all were flat in trials. He personally wrestled over 20 matches that year and upset world finalist Penrith (who may have had zero). 

[billyhoyle]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I wrestled in an excellent club (many world team members, several Olympic and world medals) way back when. Times were different, but my excellent coach advocated for 20+ international matches per year. I think he actually may have said 30. 
 

Not sure our guys still need 30, but maybe a few more than zero?

I recently listened to Kendall Cross talking about making the Olympic team in 92. He definitely thought our top guys hadn’t wrestled enough that year and all were flat in trials. He personally wrestled over 20 matches that year and upset world finalist Penrith (who may have had zero). 

The question is why aren’t they? Is it to stay healthy? Obviously they can’t travel to Russia anymore, so are there just fewer good tournaments to go to? Are the resources at these RTCs focused on keeping the RTC athletes present at the university so that they can be training partners and coaches for the NCAA athletes? 

[Eagle26]

4 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

1. More competition between RTCs. The NLWC has all the best guys, but with so many on one team, are they able to provide enough time to each athlete to scout international competition? I’m hoping Taylor can do this with OSU. Ohio RTC needs a resurgence, and HWC should be more than a 57 kg machine. 

2. More international competition early on. I think we need to incentivize our junior athletes to compete internationally to become more familiar with freestyle while they are developing. Junior worlds and U23 is not enough. The best NCAA guys should be entering senior international freestyle tournaments, and the RTCs should fund it. 
 

3. Switch folkstyle to freestyle. NCAA wrestling has been declining in popularity for a decade. Ratings are down, attendance is not what it used to be. With NIL, we are about to lose more programs. Women’s NCAA wrestling is starting up and is freestyle. The men should be doing freestyle as well. 
 

And I’m also open to thinking there are answers beyond this. But yeah, the general attitude seems to be this was a great performance as a team, so I doubt anything happens. 

I agree with everything except the last sentence. I think a lot people (especially those only watch international wrestling once every four years) started crying doom and gloom because they thought USA was so much better than the rest of the world. Then others had to chime in with how it’s not as bad as it seems because the rest of the world is just phenomenal too. 
 

As usual there’s a little truth to both sides. Zain and Snyder both ran into a better wrestler. Their game plans and preparation looked sound IMO. I think Spencer could’ve opened it up a little more but he needed to slow down Higuchi, so not a real bad strategy either. Brooks made one rookie mistake and it cost him. Your suggestion would help with that, but I’m not going to crucify Brooks over that one mistake after wrestling folkstyle his whole life. Dake and Parris definitely had bad matches and I can understand some criticism there. They did not make in match adjustments and that’s a problem that needs fixing. I think all your suggestions are excellent… I doubt #3 will ever happen though 

[The Kid]

5 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I agree with everything except the last sentence. I think a lot people (especially those only watch international wrestling once every four years) started crying doom and gloom because they thought USA was so much better than the rest of the world. Then others had to chime in with how it’s not as bad as it seems because the rest of the world is just phenomenal too. 
 

As usual there’s a little truth to both sides. Zain and Snyder both ran into a better wrestler. Their game plans and preparation looked sound IMO. I think Spencer could’ve opened it up a little more but he needed to slow down Higuchi, so not a real bad strategy either. Brooks made one rookie mistake and it cost him. Your suggestion would help with that, but I’m not going to crucify Brooks over that one mistake after wrestling folkstyle his whole life. Dake and Parris definitely had bad matches and I can understand some criticism there. They did not make in match adjustments and that’s a problem that needs fixing. I think all your suggestions are excellent… I doubt #3 will ever happen though 

Folkstyle would be ok if they added the push out and axed riding time.  

Edited August 10 by The Kid

[Eagle26]

Just now, The Kid said:

Folkstyle would be ok if they added the push out and axed riding time.  But, I highly doubt we ever get it right. 

I agree. I think the best realistic solution is to implement more freestyle concepts in to folkstyle. A step out would be a great way to start

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I like the push out, but I don’t see a way to add it to folk in a way that doesn’t confuse casuals. 
 

The issue I see is pushouts in mat wrestling or just after an escape. Particularly immediately after an escape. 

Edited August 10 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[billyhoyle]

3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I agree with everything except the last sentence. I think a lot people (especially those only watch international wrestling once every four years) started crying doom and gloom because they thought USA was so much better than the rest of the world. Then others had to chime in with how it’s not as bad as it seems because the rest of the world is just phenomenal too. 
 

As usual there’s a little truth to both sides. Zain and Snyder both ran into a better wrestler. Their game plans and preparation looked sound IMO. I think Spencer could’ve opened it up a little more but he needed to slow down Higuchi, so not a real bad strategy either. Brooks made one rookie mistake and it cost him. Your suggestion would help with that, but I’m not going to crucify Brooks over that one mistake after wrestling folkstyle his whole life. Dake and Parris definitely had bad matches and I can understand some criticism there. They did not make in match adjustments and that’s a problem that needs fixing. I think all your suggestions are excellent… I doubt #3 will ever happen though 

Cael wasn’t supposed to win, Cejudo wasn’t, Varner wasn’t supposed to, Steveson wasn’t. Usually USA is good for an unexpected gold. This team had the talent, especially with Russia only sending expats.

The athletes did the best they could have-Dake was inspirational and left everything on the mat-one of the grittiest Olympic performances I’ve ever seen given the circumstances for him. 
 
But yeah, I don’t think anyone predicted 0/6 gold medals. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, billyhoyle said:

Cael wasn’t supposed to win, Cejudo wasn’t, Varner wasn’t supposed to, Steveson wasn’t. Usually USA is good for an unexpected gold. This team had the talent, especially with Russia only sending expats.

The athletes did the best they could have-Dake was inspirational and left everything on the mat-one of the grittiest Olympic performances I’ve ever seen given the circumstances for him. 
 
But yeah, I don’t think anyone predicted 0/6 gold medals. 

Dake was our only legit favorite. He had an exciting bronze match. Unfortunately he became too one dimensional (chest wrap), which was obvious in 2023. He failed to adjust for 2024 and for the most part failed to adjust in-match.