N Korea vs India WFS 68kg - intentional injury

[Dark Energy]

Losing 8-2 with < 1 min to go … India has underhook.  North Korea keeps it in tight and controls arm.  Then quickly wrenches body around and causes India Elbow to bend out of place.  Hurts bad.  Dirty move.  Very purposeful.  It worked for NK.  Was losing 8-2. India in a lot of pain and emotional but tries.  Can’t hold on.  NK wins 10-8.  

Indian woman sobbing on mat. 
 

Really sucks.  That crap needs to stop.

[Hammerlock3]

thats a move, asgarov did is a lot. Not sure you can call it dirty just because someone got hurt.

[Dark Energy]

It’s a move?  Ok.  She tried to have the India wrestler’s elbow go against its natural range of motion.  Very quickly.  And she succeeded.    Tucked in the arm and made it hard to release.  Ugly.  

[1032004]

Was she watching Baylor Fernandes videos?

[Hammerlock3]

38 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

It’s a move?  Ok.  She tried to have the India wrestler’s elbow go against its natural range of motion.  Very quickly.  And she succeeded.    Tucked in the arm and made it hard to release.  Ugly.  

Yeah sometimes people get hurt and its ugly. Regardless we can't just start retroactively making moves illegal after someone gets hurt.

Edited August 6 by Hammerlock3

[MPhillips]

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Yeah sometimes people get hurt and its ugly. Regardless we can't just start retroactively making moves illegal after someone gets hurt.

And what exactly is this "move?" 

[Hammerlock3]

i'd call it an overtie shuck.

If I can produce video of it being done correctly would that be appreciated or has everyone made up their minds already.

[Voice of the Quakers]

Youth wrestling is about participation.

College/junior wrestling is about competition.

Open/Olympic wrestling is about winning.

It's pretty ruthless out there.

 

[lu1979]

21 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i'd call it an overtie shuck.

If I can produce video of it being done correctly would that be appreciated or has everyone made up their minds already.

You are correct - Sadulaov did this a lot when he was younger and was the best I've seen at it - the idea is to throw it by - I will have to watch the NK/Ind match again to see if that is what it appeared she was attempting.  It is also possible to intentionally try to torque your opponents arm in a way that goes against the elbow joint.  VoQ is correct also - it is ruthless out there - when the Mongolian scored her go ahead TD against Stadnik it was with a brutal shot where head went straight through Stadnik's face.  They let it go but it could have been called back as a head butt.  I think that was what Kyle Dake was referencing when he mentioned JB in a recent interview.  It's a tough sport.

[Hammerlock3]

btw I should have said "overhook shuck"

[headshuck]

Did you see Hildibrandt’s headshuck in the quarters?

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, headshuck said:

Did you see Hildibrandt’s headshuck in the quarters?

my heart warmed.

[uncle bernard]

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

And what exactly is this "move?" 

it's more common overseas, but some Americans hit it too. Gabe Arnold is very good at it.

 

[uncle bernard]

another example:

@scourge165 @Dark Energy

 

Finally got a chance to watch the match in question and this is clearly the move she's attempting. Not dirty. Just unfortunate.

[uncle bernard]

15 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Was she watching Baylor Fernandes videos?

This is actually a good example of how you *can* use this move to intentionally hurt someone. The goal is to shuck the underhook by, not catch it. Fernandez intentionally catches it so he can crank up on it. 

In this example, the PRK wrestler was clearly trying to clear the underhook and just failed to do so.

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

This is actually a good example of how you *can* use this move to intentionally hurt someone. The goal is to shuck the underhook by, not catch it. Fernandez intentionally catches it so he can crank up on it. 

In this example, the PRK wrestler was clearly trying to clear the underhook and just failed to do so.

I’m on the fence.  In the Kadi and Arnold videos they are throwing it by, the North Korean seemed to be holding on.

 

[Hammerlock3]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I’m on the fence.  In the Kadi and Arnold videos they are throwing it by, the North Korean seemed to be holding on.

 

the general rule is too assume stupidity or clumsiness before malice.

[uncle bernard]

18 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I’m on the fence.  In the Kadi and Arnold videos they are throwing it by, the North Korean seemed to be holding on.

 

It's the Indian wrestler holding on. That's what it looks like when the move doesn't work. It's hard to find video examples of a move not working, but I've seen it before.

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I’m on the fence.  In the Kadi and Arnold videos they are throwing it by, the North Korean seemed to be holding on.

 

I don't think it's that hard to see the difference. If you slow both down, it's pretty clear. Trying to throw it by vs getting that...overhook and trapping that elbow and bending it. She's not even trying to throw it by. 

Oh well...that's over, but it's really not a move or a technique. 

[Dark Energy]

@scourge165 is right.  She trapped the arm and then cranked.  No attempt to throw it by.  Watching it again right now.  Looks like clear attempt to harm to me.

[scourge165]

10 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

@scourge165 is right.  She trapped the arm and then cranked.  No attempt to throw it by.  Watching it again right now.  Looks like clear attempt to harm to me.

I do like the overall ideology of 'don't ascribe malice to what could just as easily be incompetence,'(which I'm pretty sure isn't the actual quote, but close enough) I just don't think that's the case here. Down 8-2 and she's not turning or trying to throw it by, just looks like she's cranking on it.

 

But I'd be nice if it was "just" incompetence. 

[Hammerlock3]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I do like the overall ideology of 'don't ascribe malice to what could just as easily be incompetence,'(which I'm pretty sure isn't the actual quote, but close enough) I just don't think that's the case here. Down 8-2 and she's not turning or trying to throw it by, just looks like she's cranking on it.

 

But I'd be nice if it was "just" incompetence. 

the quote is something like "don't attribute to malice what you can to stupidity" but then I have to deal with people saying "she's not stupid" or similar nonsense.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

the quote is something like "don't attribute to malice what you can to stupidity" but then I have to deal with people saying "she's not stupid" or similar nonsense.

It's actually;

Quote

never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence.

 

[jackwebster]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:28 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

thats a move, asgarov did is a lot. Not sure you can call it dirty just because someone got hurt.

@ 4:20