Is Kolat in Trouble at Navy?

[ThreePointTakedown]

Near complete retool of the staff after year four. Bringing in Barry. What is the upside there? Ty is a decent get. Coming from Davidson where the academic standard is similar. 

What do we think? A bit bigger pond than Campbell. Is Cary aggravating some bigger fish? 

[Hammerlock3]

navy isnt a trophy hunting job, not saying he isnt retooling for better results, but he doesnt have donors down his neck like other places.

[Fletcher]

If a program didn't like the head coach, they'd let him go, not map out a multi-year strategy of hiring overqualified assistants to undermine him.

[Lunaticfringe]

I have always put Kolat in the Sammie Henson category. Great technical coach, really good assistant but probably a micromanager as a head coach. He tends to piss a lot of people off as well. Just like Henson, he seemed to wait forever for his first head job at a not so good school.

[Scubb]

3-1 vs Army goes a long way at USNA

[BuckyBadger]

13 hours ago, Lunaticfringe said:

I have always put Kolat in the Sammie Henson category. Great technical coach, really good assistant but probably a micromanager as a head coach. He tends to piss a lot of people off as well. Just like Henson, he seemed to wait forever for his first head job at a not so good school.

I think this is wrong. Kolat built up Campbell a few levels and as far as I know didn’t leave because of the issues you describe, but probably because he wanted to focus more on the wrestlers and not admin stuff. Navy is a unique DI program where that might be more possible than non-academy schools.

Henson was not able to do much at WVU, and jumped ship every year or two before he was a head coach.

Navy has been fairly competitive since Kolat took over.

i don’t think the comparison you made is accurate here, other than Kolat moved around a lot for a period of time.

Edited June 27 by BuckyBadger

[Lunaticfringe]

2 hours ago, BuckyBadger said:

I think this is wrong. Kolat built up Campbell a few levels and as far as I know didn’t leave because of the issues you describe, but probably because he wanted to focus more on the wrestlers and not admin stuff. Navy is a unique DI program where that might be more possible than non-academy schools.

Henson was not able to do much at WVU, and jumped ship every year or two before he was a head coach.

Navy has been fairly competitive since Kolat took over.

i don’t think the comparison you made is accurate here, other than Kolat moved around a lot for a period of time.

Kolat was not too different as an assistant. He was at Lock Haven, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Lehigh and UNC before going to Campbell. He really never should have left because recruiting will be nearly impossible at a service academy. He had Ryder Rogotzke committed only to bail to Ohio St. 

 

His results are not any better than the previous coaches since taking over.

[Voice of the Quakers]

6 hours ago, Scubb said:

3-1 vs Army goes a long way at USNA

I think some of the posters are underestimating the importance of Scubb's stat.

[Winners Circle]

On 6/26/2024 at 9:21 PM, ThreePointTakedown said:

Near complete retool of the staff after year four. Bringing in Barry. What is the upside there? Ty is a decent get. Coming from Davidson where the academic standard is similar. 

What do we think? A bit bigger pond than Campbell. Is Cary aggravating some bigger fish? 

I think this couldn't be farther from the truth. Davis was brought in to replace Evans (who left and, to my understanding, wanted out of the coaching world altogether), and Eustice was brought in to replace Neff (who left for a job at Bucknell). 

As Scubb said, 3-1 vs Army goes along ways. Additionally, they just had an All-American (first one since 2016), had another reach the bloodround (who returns), three more reach the round of 16 (one of which returns), and a T26 team finish (tied with Pitt, Indiana, and Lock Haven). They also had dual meet wins over Illinois & Pitt. I'd say for a service academy, this is a very successful season. Combine this with the athletes that transferred out/decommitted (Santaniello, Tallmadge, Rogotzke), I'd say the man is doing a pretty damn good job.

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

I think this couldn't be farther from the truth. Davis was brought in to replace Evans (who left and, to my understanding, wanted out of the coaching world altogether), and Eustice was brought in to replace Neff (who left for a job at Bucknell). 

As Scubb said, 3-1 vs Army goes along ways. Additionally, they just had an All-American (first one since 2016), had another reach the bloodround (who returns), three more reach the round of 16 (one of which returns), and a T26 team finish (tied with Pitt, Indiana, and Lock Haven). They also had dual meet wins over Illinois & Pitt. I'd say for a service academy, this is a very successful season. Combine this with the athletes that transferred out/decommitted (Santaniello, Tallmadge, Rogotzke), I'd say the man is doing a pretty damn good job.

Fair take. 

Just seems like a complete staff change smacks of desperation. 

[Winners Circle]

6 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Fair take. 

Just seems like a complete staff change smacks of desperation. 

Normally I would agree. But like I said, with Evans transitioning out of coaching altogether, that one seems unavoidable. And Neff took another coaching gig. So really only one coaching change in my opinion.

[ThreePointTakedown]

Reasonable take. 

So what is the rhythm of a healthy coaching staff? Is there one or a better one or a few?

Tom and Terry have their thing but should Morningstar branch out and look to pass the (pardon the pun) brand to another location? 

John had the same AHC and Assistants for a good few years and now its a complete reshuffle. 

Penn decided to do whatever they did and lost two, seemingly, valuable members of the staff. 

A good HC and 2nd in command I guess is a good relationship but should there be regular turnover with the rest of the staff. Say, every 5-6-7 years. Get some fresh faces in there. With new perspectives or talents? 

What are our thoughts? 

[Elevator]

I think there is no one way to do things and many factors can result in changes.  Good programs will overcome disruptions and perhaps use the changes for the better.  Coaching changes are not inherently unfavorable.

[Winners Circle]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Reasonable take. 

So what is the rhythm of a healthy coaching staff? Is there one or a better one or a few?

Tom and Terry have their thing but should Morningstar branch out and look to pass the (pardon the pun) brand to another location? 

John had the same AHC and Assistants for a good few years and now its a complete reshuffle. 

Penn decided to do whatever they did and lost two, seemingly, valuable members of the staff. 

A good HC and 2nd in command I guess is a good relationship but should there be regular turnover with the rest of the staff. Say, every 5-6-7 years. Get some fresh faces in there. With new perspectives or talents? 

What are our thoughts? 

I think it depends on the school and their expectations, combined with how they are doing relative to their expectations. For example, take Lock Haven. Small school. I'm not sure of their NCAA team finishes over the past few years, but seems like they're consistently a top 20 finish. Producing multiple AA's/blood round guys every year. I think that is about their ceiling, and they're reaching it. So I don't think they should make any changes. Same with SDSU. 

On the other hand, look at Wisconsin. I'm not here to throw jabs. But I think we can all agree they have not been reaching what we all think their ceiling is. Same with Indiana. I don't think a coaching change or two would be bad in these cases. 

Even though Lock Haven is on the same tier as Indiana/Wisconsin, we look at one as excelling and one was hurting.

[ThreePointTakedown]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I think it depends on the school and their expectations, combined with how they are doing relative to their expectations. For example, take Lock Haven. Small school. I'm not sure of their NCAA team finishes over the past few years, but seems like they're consistently a top 20 finish. Producing multiple AA's/blood round guys every year. I think that is about their ceiling, and they're reaching it. So I don't think they should make any changes. Same with SDSU. 

On the other hand, look at Wisconsin. I'm not here to throw jabs. But I think we can all agree they have not been reaching what we all think their ceiling is. Same with Indiana. I don't think a coaching change or two would be bad in these cases. 

Even though Lock Haven is on the same tier as Indiana/Wisconsin, we look at one as excelling and one was hurting.

Agreed.

But I guess what I meant by 'turnover' is that the assistant(s) go out and get better/other jobs at other schools(maybe in administration). Keep the new blood moving through the system. 

[Gus]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

I think it depends on the school and their expectations, combined with how they are doing relative to their expectations. For example, take Lock Haven. Small school. I'm not sure of their NCAA team finishes over the past few years, but seems like they're consistently a top 20 finish. Producing multiple AA's/blood round guys every year. I think that is about their ceiling, and they're reaching it. So I don't think they should make any changes. Same with SDSU. 

On the other hand, look at Wisconsin. I'm not here to throw jabs. But I think we can all agree they have not been reaching what we all think their ceiling is. Same with Indiana. I don't think a coaching change or two would be bad in these cases. 

Even though Lock Haven is on the same tier as Indiana/Wisconsin, we look at one as excelling and one was hurting.

Easy on the SDSU comments. 8 NQ's and 4 AA's last year. We are not in the same strata as Lock Haven thank you very much.

[Lunaticfringe]

Honestly at this point SDSU is in the same tier as Minnesota, Northern Iowa, Missouri, Lehigh, Rutgers, NCST(great dual team but never do well at NCAAs)

[Winners Circle]

17 hours ago, Gus said:

Easy on the SDSU comments. 8 NQ's and 4 AA's last year. We are not in the same strata as Lock Haven thank you very much.

Sorry, that came off wrong. I just meant I feel SDSU is reaching their ceiling and should consider coaching changes. Did not mean to put them in the same tier as LHU, although I can see how it did sound that way. 

[Gus]

24 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Sorry, that came off wrong. I just meant I feel SDSU is reaching their ceiling and should consider coaching changes. Did not mean to put them in the same tier as LHU, although I can see how it did sound that way. 

Apology accepted lol. A lot of program success ultimately comes down to booster support. No one thought Cornell would be a top wrestling destination years ago but they have poured into the program and reaped success. SDSU has shown that they are committed with new facilities and such. We will see if the recruiting ticks upward because if it does, look out! Hahn and staff know how to develop guys with the best of them. 

[Winners Circle]

5 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

Sorry, that came off wrong. I just meant I feel SDSU is reaching their ceiling and should consider coaching changes. Did not mean to put them in the same tier as LHU, although I can see how it did sound that way. 

SHOULD NOT****

[1032004]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:03 PM, Winners Circle said:

I think it depends on the school and their expectations, combined with how they are doing relative to their expectations. For example, take Lock Haven. Small school. I'm not sure of their NCAA team finishes over the past few years, but seems like they're consistently a top 20 finish. Producing multiple AA's/blood round guys every year. I think that is about their ceiling, and they're reaching it.

They do a good job, but this is a bit of an exaggeration.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/team/38/lock-haven/profile

26th, 30th, 54th, 18th, 16th, 44th, 50th, 37th, 56th in the last 9 tournaments.  The only 2 years where multiple guys made the blood round was Marsteller’s 2 years in 2018 and 2019.   Their arguably most successful wrestlers have been transfers that got in trouble at their last school (you could maybe argue Perry, but his 2nd place finish was the only year he AA’d).

 

[KLCarnegieTech_1969]

Kolat is not in trouble.  He is 3-1 against Army.  As previously mentioned, that goes a long way.  Navy is not a trophy school.  As far as being like Henson, I disagree.  They are night and day.  Henson got himself caught up in some questionable behavior at WVU.  Kolat has far more integrity as a person and coach.  That goes a long way.  My two cents.

[fishbane]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:03 PM, Winners Circle said:

For example, take Lock Haven. Small school. I'm not sure of their NCAA team finishes over the past few years, but seems like they're consistently a top 20 finish. Producing multiple AA's/blood round guys every year. I think that is about their ceiling, and they're reaching it. So I don't think they should make any changes. 

Not saying they should make a change, but when the topic of this thread, Kolat, was at Lock Haven they finished 5th at NCAAs.  They had 4 AAs and 1 champ. Their ceiling is a little higher than what they are producing.

[Phantom]

8 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Not saying they should make a change, but when the topic of this thread, Kolat, was at Lock Haven they finished 5th at NCAAs.  They had 4 AAs and 1 champ. Their ceiling is a little higher than what they are producing.

Yes sir.. 5 AA. Carl Poff had it rolling for about 6 yrs!!