Examples of wrestlers getting WORSE as they got more fit?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

One obvious example is Tony Cassioppi who dominated national champ Greg Kerkvliet as Fat Tony but then couldn’t touch him as Tony Six Pack.

Other examples?

[headshuck]

Cinnabon sales slowing?

[flyingcement]

10 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Cinnabon sales slowing?

Ozempic effect

[Le duke]

One obvious example is Tony Cassioppi who dominated national champ Greg Kerkvliet as Fat Tony but then couldn’t touch him as Tony Six Pack.
Other examples?

Pretty sure that was entirely due to factors unrelated to Cassiopi’s fitness.


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[flyingcement]

11 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Pretty sure that was entirely due to factors unrelated to Cassiopi’s fitness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would argue that Cassioppi got better during that period, but Kerkvliet got a lot better.  He's not worth responding to but while we're here, the premise is flawed because there are two moving targets and he is asserting a conclusion based on generating controversy

[Southend]

13 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I would argue that Cassioppi got better during that period, but Kerkvliet got a lot better.  He's not worth responding to but while we're here, the premise is flawed because there are two moving targets and he is asserting a conclusion based on generating controversy

Nice analysis 

[Hammerlock3]

"examples of posters who got less funny despite trying harder to be"

[Rassling]

I know in boxing and MMA muscles may look good but in combat they make you slow and consume a lot of energy. 

[HarryConnickJr]

8 minutes ago, Rassling said:

I know in boxing and MMA muscles may look good but in combat they make you slow and consume a lot of energy. 

Don’t they make you fast?

[Hammerlock3]

12 minutes ago, Rassling said:

I know in boxing and MMA muscles may look good but in combat they make you slow and consume a lot of energy. 

he didn't gain muscle he lost a bunch of weight. I'm sure we agree fat consumes energy too, so cass didn't lose a step because of getting slow and tired.

Definitely arguable that the weight was worth having when there's 100 pounds between weight classes.

[Lunaticfringe]

Good example of this was Jacob Lininger about 20 years ago. He was a ncaa qualifier at Hwt for Pitt, he was probably about 30-10, he transfers to 2x defending champs Minnesota and drops to 197 to enter the lineup and replace Owen Elzen after 3rd and 4th place finishes the past 2 years. He was not wrestling well at all, maybe .500 at midseason when Damion Hahn moved up to win his first of 2 titles in a row. I really thought he would get good in the gophers room.

[Rassling]

40 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

he didn't gain muscle he lost a bunch of weight. I'm sure we agree fat consumes energy too, so cass didn't lose a step because of getting slow and tired.

Definitely arguable that the weight was worth having when there's 100 pounds between weight classes.

He didn’t gain muscle? Are we talking about the same wrestler? Throwing hands with big arms is taxing on the heart / cardio making it tough to defend against a take down. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, HarryConnickJr said:

Don’t they make you fast?

Right up to the point they run out of oxygen.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Right up to the point they run out of oxygen.

I can't tell if y'all are being serious. You're really arguing that... muscles are a detriment to Wrestling!?!

It's a sport where you're trying to force people to do things they don't want to. Muscles...tend to be beneficial with that! 

Or are we mocking Jimmy? Because...I feel like Kyle Snyder or...pretty much every great Wrestler would disagree. I don't think David Taylor thought, "damn, these muscles are really making me tired." 

[jackwebster]

I think Anzor Boltukaev got worse when he lost muscle.

Edited May 28 by jackwebster

[Hammerlock3]

7 hours ago, Rassling said:

He didn’t gain muscle? Are we talking about the same wrestler? Throwing hands with big arms is taxing on the heart / cardio making it tough to defend against a take down. 

he looks like he gained muscle but thats just because he's much more defined based on leaning out drastically.

[Rassling]

6 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I can't tell if y'all are being serious. You're really arguing that... muscles are a detriment to Wrestling!?!

It's a sport where you're trying to force people to do things they don't want to. Muscles...tend to be beneficial with that! 

Or are we mocking Jimmy? Because...I feel like Kyle Snyder or...pretty much every great Wrestler would disagree. I don't think David Taylor thought, "damn, these muscles are really making me tired." 

Another big bellied boomer with lots to say about something he knows so little about.

[Hammerlock3]

5 minutes ago, Rassling said:

Another big bellied boomer with lots to say about something he knows so little about.

i'm waiting for you to demonstrate some knowledge beyond the level of someones uncle in the stands mumbling about how big muscles need oxygen .

[Rassling]

2 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i'm waiting for you to demonstrate some knowledge beyond the level of someones uncle in the stands mumbling about how big muscles need oxygen .

Hammer - go back to bed man. You sound foolish. 

[SuperBonBon]

Heavyweights are a different animal than other weight classes.  There weight and how they were able to use it was a big part of the weight class.  Now move them into a weight class where there weight was not a skill anymore, but things like quickness, .etc are and that wasn't as well developed a skill as using your weight you can see they will be disadvantaged.

I have only antecodel evidence from HS where our heavyweight who was very good, lost a ton of weight and he was no longer as good.  When he had his weight loss I was able to wrestle him. I noticed he was slow to move, unable to fight out of defensive positions probably because he never experienced them before.

Though he gained a lot in his personal life.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

[Truzzcat]

I think there is a pretty evident correlation between small guys that get bigger later in life and have more success as a result of having the technique and footwork of a smaller guy while holding on to some of that speed, and I believe that is evident not just in wrestling but in other sports. A lot of times heavier guys get away with worse technique because of strength or their opponent being slower and despite getting a bit faster as they lose the size its rarely to the same degree as the guy who has been smaller most of their life. Thinking of the best heavyweights today they were all smaller at one point or another. This is part of the reason I am so high on Dreshaun ross he has a build like Greg but maybe an even larger frame and more explosive at a younger age. I think Christian Carroll may end up being an exception to everything I just said though.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Truzzcat said:

I think there is a pretty evident correlation between small guys that get bigger later in life and have more success as a result of having the technique and footwork of a smaller guy while holding on to some of that speed, and I believe that is evident not just in wrestling but in other sports. A lot of times heavier guys get away with worse technique because of strength or their opponent being slower and despite getting a bit faster as they lose the size its rarely to the same degree as the guy who has been smaller most of their life. Thinking of the best heavyweights today they were all smaller at one point or another. This is part of the reason I am so high on Dreshaun ross he has a build like Greg but maybe an even larger frame and more explosive at a younger age. I think Christian Carroll may end up being an exception to everything I just said though.

Ross looked like there was something wrong with him the first time I saw him wrestle. He was all coiled up in that stance and it looked he had some back problems. Nope. The kid was just like 6'5 with a huge back. 

That kid looks incredible. Also would imagine we'd lose him to FB...

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, Rassling said:

Another big bellied boomer with lots to say about something he knows so little about.

I'm honestly not sure if you're screwing with me or not! LOL...I think you are...I mean, you have to be, right?

[Hammerlock3]

12 hours ago, Rassling said:

Hammer - go back to bed man. You sound foolish. 

why