College wrestling is cooked

[peanut]

Currently there are reports that an antitrust lawsuit will involve a settlement in which schools pay athletes going back a few years. I’m not sure about the details, but it seems that the general trend is for college football and basketball teams to operate more and more like minor league teams.

And if male athletes are making bank, will that require equal expenditures for female athletes? I don’t know. I doubt courts have considered that question.

At any rate all or nearly all wrestling teams operate at a loss. They get money from football and/or basketball revenue, student fees, and taxes. It’s been socialism all along, folks. But in this brave new capitalistic world — perhaps with added mandates for equal expenditures for female athletes — it’s hard to see how college wrestling survives in its current form for much longer.

I don’t know what college sports will look like in 20 years, but it probably won’t look like it does today. Athletes might be considered school employees for purposes of collective bargaining. Some might be unionized. Some will certainly make millions when NIL is added to the mix. Big schools might even legally separate their moneymaking teams (or all teams) from the school. If elite high school basketball players are more tuned into paydays, they might opt for the NBA G League or overseas leagues more and more. Who knows?

But whatever happens, it looks very likely that more schools will eventually drop wrestling. Time to get your kids out of wrestling academies and into the library. 

[NM1965]

I wonder how this affects the ridiculous 9.0 scholarship limit at schools? 

[Ohio Elite]

Anybody remember Real Pro Wrestling from like 20 some years ago? We're heading down that path. 8 teams baby!!

[ionel]

30 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I wonder how this affects the ridiculous 9.0 scholarship limit at schools? 

It makes it meaningless don't you think?  If athletes are getting paid then why would they get free tuition etc.?  They should probably pay full cost like everybody else.  

Edited May 24 by ionel

[boconnell]

55 minutes ago, peanut said:

Currently there are reports that an antitrust lawsuit will involve a settlement in which schools pay athletes going back a few years. I’m not sure about the details, but it seems that the general trend is for college football and basketball teams to operate more and more like minor league teams.

And if male athletes are making bank, will that require equal expenditures for female athletes? I don’t know. I doubt courts have considered that question.

At any rate all or nearly all wrestling teams operate at a loss. They get money from football and/or basketball revenue, student fees, and taxes. It’s been socialism all along, folks. But in this brave new capitalistic world — perhaps with added mandates for equal expenditures for female athletes — it’s hard to see how college wrestling survives in its current form for much longer.

I don’t know what college sports will look like in 20 years, but it probably won’t look like it does today. Athletes might be considered school employees for purposes of collective bargaining. Some might be unionized. Some will certainly make millions when NIL is added to the mix. Big schools might even legally separate their moneymaking teams (or all teams) from the school. If elite high school basketball players are more tuned into paydays, they might opt for the NBA G League or overseas leagues more and more. Who knows?

But whatever happens, it looks very likely that more schools will eventually drop wrestling. Time to get your kids out of wrestling academies and into the library. 

You're crazy if you think most football and basketball teams make money.  

[CHROMEBIRD]

It means bad news for all programs outside of the B1G and SEC, and for non-revenue sports across the board. Probably very bad news for a lot of athletic department staff.

The settlement is $2.8B over the next 10 years in NIL backpay to athletes. All D1 athletes going back to 2016 are eligible to join the settlement class and receive a share. The NCAA will be paying 40% ($1.12B) of the total cost. P5 schools will pay 24% ($672M), and the rest of the D1 will be on the hook for 36% ($1.01B). 

Outside of the backpay, schools will need to setup a revenue-sharing framework with its athletes. Details TBD, but power conference schools are making plans to share 20% or more of their media revenues with players every year. This will further separate the Big Ten and SEC, who has the fattest media deals, and complicate things for everyone else. IIRC the B1G contract comes out to about $80M per school. The Big12 and ACC are about half that amount. And non-P5 schools won't have much of a pie to share. 

While it keeps the NCAA intact, they are going to have to run pretty lean and make cutbacks like the athletic departments. At this point, I guess anything is on the table to make the numbers work: shortened seasons, smaller roster sizes, higher ticket prices, fewer trophies, more outside sponsors, discontinued sports, staff reductions, delays in facilities upgrades... hard to imagine wrestling coming out of all this in a better spot.

College sports is broken.

[pokemonster]

5 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

It means bad news for all programs outside of the B1G and SEC, and for non-revenue sports across the board. Probably very bad news for a lot of athletic department staff.

The settlement is $2.8B over the next 10 years in NIL backpay to athletes. All D1 athletes going back to 2016 are eligible to join the settlement class and receive a share. The NCAA will be paying 40% ($1.12B) of the total cost. P5 schools will pay 24% ($672M), and the rest of the D1 will be on the hook for 36% ($1.01B). 

Outside of the backpay, schools will need to setup a revenue-sharing framework with its athletes. Details TBD, but power conference schools are making plans to share 20% or more of their media revenues with players every year. This will further separate the Big Ten and SEC, who has the fattest media deals, and complicate things for everyone else. IIRC the B1G contract comes out to about $80M per school. The Big12 and ACC are about half that amount. And non-P5 schools won't have much of a pie to share. 

While it keeps the NCAA intact, they are going to have to run pretty lean and make cutbacks like the athletic departments. At this point, I guess anything is on the table to make the numbers work: shortened seasons, smaller roster sizes, higher ticket prices, fewer trophies, more outside sponsors, discontinued sports, staff reductions, delays in facilities upgrades... hard to imagine wrestling coming out of all this in a better spot.

College sports is broken.

Any idea how they decided on 2016 as the magic year for them to get back pay? When not go back til the 1850s and pay the families of those athletes?

[peanut]

28 minutes ago, boconnell said:

You're crazy if you think most football and basketball teams make money.  

Don’t be a dork.

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Any idea how they decided on 2016 as the magic year for them to get back pay? When not go back til the 1850s and pay the families of those athletes?

I think it has to do with the Ed O'Bannon appellate case? Not sure.

[CHROMEBIRD]

29 minutes ago, boconnell said:

You're crazy if you think most football and basketball teams make money.  

I agree with what you are saying, but in this instance it's about the schools' revenue rather than profit

[mspart]

Yeah, this is probably not good for wrestling as a whole.   I guess we'll see.

mspart

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

It makes it meaningless don't you think?  If athletes are getting paid then why would they get free tuition etc.?  They should probably pay full cost like everybody else.  

Many colleges allow employees to take classes either for free or at a discount.  It is a pretty common employee benefit.  I don't see why they would given athletic employees this benefit.

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

You're crazy if you think most football and basketball teams make money.  

If they are not making money how can they afford to pay the coaches and administrators big salaries?  How can they afford to build these giant arenas?  They money to do this must be paid through substantial revenue. 

[ionel]

34 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I agree with what you are saying, but in this instance it's about the schools' revenue rather than profit

Think you mean athletic department's revenue.

[ionel]

24 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Many colleges allow employees to take classes either for free or at a discount.  It is a pretty common employee benefit.  I don't see why they would given athletic employees this benefit.

And hence the demise of college sports at a lot of Us, they want to be paid and get free stuff.

[billyhoyle]

 

2 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

It means bad news for all programs outside of the B1G and SEC, and for non-revenue sports across the board. Probably very bad news for a lot of athletic department staff.

The settlement is $2.8B over the next 10 years in NIL backpay to athletes. All D1 athletes going back to 2016 are eligible to join the settlement class and receive a share. The NCAA will be paying 40% ($1.12B) of the total cost. P5 schools will pay 24% ($672M), and the rest of the D1 will be on the hook for 36% ($1.01B). 

Outside of the backpay, schools will need to setup a revenue-sharing framework with its athletes. Details TBD, but power conference schools are making plans to share 20% or more of their media revenues with players every year. This will further separate the Big Ten and SEC, who has the fattest media deals, and complicate things for everyone else. IIRC the B1G contract comes out to about $80M per school. The Big12 and ACC are about half that amount. And non-P5 schools won't have much of a pie to share. 

While it keeps the NCAA intact, they are going to have to run pretty lean and make cutbacks like the athletic departments. At this point, I guess anything is on the table to make the numbers work: shortened seasons, smaller roster sizes, higher ticket prices, fewer trophies, more outside sponsors, discontinued sports, staff reductions, delays in facilities upgrades... hard to imagine wrestling coming out of all this in a better spot.

College sports is broken.

The key change is going to be eliminating the 14 required minimum sports. It’s the only way the math makes any sense. 

Edited May 24 by billyhoyle

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

And hence the demise of college sports at a lot of Us, they want to be paid and get free stuff.

They are doing work that generates revenue for the University, just like the faculty and staff. 

Education is not an unusual benefit for an employer to provide.  My employer is a for profit company and they pay me a salary and also have a tuition reimbursement benefit.  A college presumably can provide the education at a lower cost than other employers.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

They are doing work that generates revenue for the University, just like the faculty and staff. 

 

No they aren't, it doesn't generate for the University but for the Athletic Department and they spend all the money.

 

[poorwrestler]

No they aren't, it doesn't generate for the University but for the Athletic Department and they spend all the money.
 

Are you arguing that an athletic department is not a part of the university? Of course the money gets spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

Are you arguing that an athletic department is not a part of the university? Of course the money gets spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In most they are their own entity, they don't contribute to the University.  

[fishbane]

36 minutes ago, ionel said:

No they aren't, it doesn't generate for the University but for the Athletic Department and they spend all the money.

 

What are you talking about about? The athletic department is part of the university.  The athletic department's revenue is included in the revenue of the university.  If someone does something that earns revenue for a department of the university they are earning revenue for the university.

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, fishbane said:

What are you talking about about? The athletic department is part of the university.  The athletic department's revenue is included in the revenue of the university.  If someone does something that earns revenue for a department of the university they are earning revenue for the university.

sure 

[fishbane]

11 minutes ago, ionel said:

sure 

Look up form 990 for any private non-profit university in the country.  This is the informational return non-profits must file with the IRS.  It will include both revenue from athletics and revenue from tuition and fees.  It's all revenue of the university.  It will also include athletic department salaries in the expenses just like salaries of professors.

If you are trying to say that from a budget perspective a school like Penn State allows the athletic department to keep and spend all of its revenue that is somewhat misleading.  One expense for many athletic departments that are "their own entity" have js "Athletically related student aid" or in other words athletic scholarships.  So the athletic department earns revenue that they get to keep except that they have to pay the tuition of all their scholarship athletes into the academic budget.  For a football team with 85 scholarships this is millions of dollar in tuition revenue.

[Dark Energy]

Perhaps this will drive universities to focus much more on academics and use sports as a means to enhance physical well being and the character of its students as they prepare for more traditional careers.  Will be more like club sports.  Relatively low cost … but no longer a major distraction.  Will also find ways to cut bloat and reduce the major arms race expenditures on athletic facilities.  

(Maybe for some.  I bet a few will really lean into this type of ruling and be more like, and care more about being, a professional sports business, than a university.)
 

[boconnell]

26 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Perhaps this will drive universities to focus much more on academics and use sports as a means to enhance physical well being and the character of its students as they prepare for more traditional careers.  Will be more like club sports.  Relatively low cost … but no longer a major distraction.  Will also find ways to cut bloat and reduce the major arms race expenditures on athletic facilities.  

(Maybe for some.  I bet a few will really lean into this type of ruling and be more like, and care more about being, a professional sports business, than a university.)
 

People love to talk about how misguided colleges focusing on sports is.  I am not sure that what you learn in academics actually applies more to life than what you learn in athletics.  I bet NCAA D1 athletes hit traditional success markers at a greater rate than those who obtain Bachelors of Arts or Sociology or similar degrees (and I say that as a holder of an English Literature degree).