jross Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 You assume I favor killing people, which is not the case. It is a just punishment for heinous crimes. If Salas had been punished appropriately for his first killings, he would not have been able to commit his latest. Singapore "We prefer not to impose the death penalty on anyone, but we have to continue to do what is best for us as a matter of policy." 80% believe it deters crimes and significantly contributes to its low crime. Criminals agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 12 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: Still weirded out that you so doubtlessly favor having people killed. Not a good fixation for you... or anybody. Just weird. Instead of obsessing about the death penalty and infering someones personal opinion on it, what is your answer to the problem with people like Salas and the policies in Illinois? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parrish Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 15 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: Instead of obsessing about the death penalty and infering someones personal opinion on it, what is your answer to the problem with people like Salas and the policies in Illinois? Google "effect of death penalty on crime" Find someone to help you sound out some of the trickier words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerniePragle Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 18 hours ago, jross said: Singapore knows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore Well, it's hard to deny that Singapore has cut down on "Firearm offences", in my opinion one of the biggest crime problems we have in the US. Not doable here because it would cost the gun and ammo manufacturers a lot of money. They are protected by their lobbyists in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Is the White House or the Republicans the clown for this message? I support drug price regulations and assume most of the regular population also does. Was this included as part of some larger bill with other provisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Mike Parrish said: Google "effect of death penalty on crime" Find someone to help you sound out some of the trickier words. Google "reading comprehension" and then find someone to help you read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 2 hours ago, BerniePragle said: Well, it's hard to deny that Singapore has cut down on "Firearm offences", in my opinion one of the biggest crime problems we have in the US. Not doable here because it would cost the gun and ammo manufacturers a lot of money. They are protected by their lobbyists in DC. Not to mention it would be unconstitutional. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerniePragle Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mspart said: Not to mention it would be unconstitutional. mspart 2 hours ago, BerniePragle said: They are protected by their lobbyists in DC. It would be "unconstitutional" to hang someone who commited (attempted) murder with a firearm? (Quotes around unconstitutional because I see that thrown around for everything from, well you know...) Edited January 25, 2023 by BerniePragle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Bigbrog said: Instead of obsessing about the death penalty and infering someones personal opinion on it, what is your answer to the problem with people like Salas and the policies in Illinois? He was in jail for home invasion that ended up with 2 of the residents killed in 2009. He was sentenced in 2012. The trigger puller was sentenced to life. Salas apparently was not. He served 10 years approx. During that time he assaulted a prison officer. That should have added time to his sentence. So Illinois let out a person that was involved in a home invasion that ended up in murder. And he gets to go free in 10 years. He learned a lot from his partner apparently. Cold bloodedly killed 3 people and kidnapped a 4th. Yeah, I'd say Illinois has some issues with their justice system. mspart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 It costs > 40K/inmate/year in Illinois and elsewhere. It is entirely impractical to lock people up and throw away the key. I'd say we have to solve this at a higher level, but we all know those problems are too complex to address. We will never alleviate poverty and ignorance. We will never shed ourselves of gun culture. We will never put up meaningful barriers to owning and regulating guns. Take a good look around, this is not an accident and it is not going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, BerniePragle said: It would be "unconstitutional" to hang someone who commited (attempted) murder with a firearm? (Quotes around unconstitutional because I see that thrown around for everything from, well you know...) Hi BP, No that would not be unconstitutional. I thought you were referring to outlawing firearms. I don't think guns are allowed in Singapore. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerniePragle Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, mspart said: Hi BP, No that would not be unconstitutional. I thought you were referring to outlawing firearms. I don't think guns are allowed in Singapore. mspart Art, Thanks. I didn't know that. That also may explain the lack of murders with firearms, lol. Never had a need to take a gun to Singapore. Come to think of it I've never had a need to take a gun to Chicago, Pittsburgh, Corning NY, Ithaca, NC PA, or any of the other places I've lived. Never took a gun to anywhere I've visited. I guess I'm just living on the edge. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: It costs > 40K/inmate/year in Illinois and elsewhere. It is entirely impractical to lock people up and throw away the key. Is this supposed to excuse Illinois for allowing a dangerous felon involved in double murder to go in 10 years. I suppose his sentence must have been reduced for good conduct after assaulting a prison official. Now he has killed 3 more. Hopefully the same mistake is not made. For the want of >$40k/year, 3 people are dead. That sounds like a good trade eh? I'll bet some bean counter said, "chances are it won't happen so we should save the money and hope it doesn't. Probably won't." Unfortunately it does happen more often than we would want to believe. https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-numbers-dont-lie-its-the-hard-core-doing-hard-time/ mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parrish Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BerniePragle said: Art, Thanks. I didn't know that. That also may explain the lack of murders with firearms, lol. Never had a need to take a gun to Singapore. Come to think of it I've never had a need to take a gun to Chicago, Pittsburgh, Corning NY, Ithaca, NC PA, or any of the other places I've lived. Never took a gun to anywhere I've visited. I guess I'm just living on the edge. BP Subway is a dangerous place. Edited January 25, 2023 by Mike Parrish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 31 minutes ago, BerniePragle said: Art, Thanks. I didn't know that. That also may explain the lack of murders with firearms, lol. Never had a need to take a gun to Singapore. Come to think of it I've never had a need to take a gun to Chicago, Pittsburgh, Corning NY, Ithaca, NC PA, or any of the other places I've lived. Never took a gun to anywhere I've visited. I guess I'm just living on the edge. BP BP - Yep, you are living on the edge!!! Ha! mapart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said: Subway is a dangerous place. Is he up to no good or is he prepared for a ne'er do well? mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parrish Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, mspart said: Is he up to no good or is he prepared for a ne'er do well? mspart He's a dingaling. I've never seen an armored assault on a sandwich shop. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, mspart said: Is this supposed to excuse Illinois for allowing a dangerous felon involved in double murder to go in 10 years. I suppose his sentence must have been reduced for good conduct after assaulting a prison official. Now he has killed 3 more. Hopefully the same mistake is not made. For the want of >$40k/year, 3 people are dead. That sounds like a good trade eh? I'll bet some bean counter said, "chances are it won't happen so we should save the money and hope it doesn't. Probably won't." Unfortunately it does happen more often than we would want to believe. https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-numbers-dont-lie-its-the-hard-core-doing-hard-time/ mspart How long do you suggest holding him? It is not going to be forever. Sadly, he is likely to be a much better person going in than coming out. Maybe that is what should be fixed but it is a hard problem and we don't address those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 8 hours ago, Bigbrog said: Instead of obsessing about the death penalty and infering someones personal opinion on it, what is your answer to the problem with people like Salas and the policies in Illinois? People who I know in law enforcement and military talk very little about their experiences shooting or killing others. It's not that they think their actions weren't justified or 'right' as much as that they are very mentally and emotionally deep topics that aren't necessarily appropriate for group conversation - in particular, with those that don't appreciate the depth. Wasn't inferring anything, he has stated his position quite clearly. It's a very difficult problem. I admit I don't have the solution - but I know it isn't being flippant about taking another person's life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parrish Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: People who I know in law enforcement and military talk very little about their experiences shooting or killing others. It's not that they think their actions weren't justified or 'right' as much as that they are very mentally and emotionally deep topics that aren't necessarily appropriate for group conversation - in particular, with those that don't appreciate the depth. Wasn't inferring anything, he has stated his position quite clearly. It's a very difficult problem. I admit I don't have the solution - but I know it isn't being flippant about taking another person's life. I've had more than a few law enforcement parents of wrestlers I coached and this sounds exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 58 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: It's a very difficult problem. I admit I don't have the solution - but I know it isn't being flippant about taking another person's life. The death penalty is not flippant about human life. I can't think of anyone that would rejoice when the death penalty is employed, but it is the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes, and we can wear our big boy pants and talk about it. It isn't weird, rather, it is quite common for folks to support capital punishment. For some like me, support comes from a deep care for protecting innocent human life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 27 minutes ago, jross said: The death penalty is not flippant about human life. I can't think of anyone that would rejoice when the death penalty is employed, but it is the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes, and we can wear our big boy pants and talk about it. It isn't weird, rather, it is quite common for folks to support capital punishment. For some like me, support comes from a deep care for protecting innocent human life. Bits of your post have been struck because none of that rant applies to the current conversation. It's just diversion BS. I've made my position on the depth and seriousness of the capital punishment discussion clear. Your use of the 'big boy pants' phrase indicates you are not serious enough or mature enough (or both) to be in any legitimate discussion. Your flippancy is showing. Your deep care for protecting innocent human life is interesting. Seems heavily dependent on which lives you feel are innocent enough or not - to be protected or to be killed as punishment. As if it is simply that binary. The depths here seem to be lost on you. I don't see any path for a useful discussion with you going forward. We'll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I just cracked the screen on my phone rolling my eyes so hard… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Most countries have abolished the death penalty entirely or use it only under the most extreme of circumstances. Frankly, I don't want in the group that regularly carries it out. I want it abolished in all circumstances and am satisfied my state has done so. Norway has a real dilemma coming their way. They can't impose a life sentence, much less a death penalty. Their infamous mass shooter (a fascist who killed 77) will have served his term of 21 years and could then be a free man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Silly boys cannot have a serious conversation and cannot respect opinions that are different than their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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