Officiating

[SoonerKing]

I was really disappointed in the officiating bias towards PSU. Not only did JB win 2 challenges in his match against Nolf, the officials refused to make Nolf engage for 2.5 minutes of 2nd period. He flat out ran with no passivity calls or better yet cautions.

And it looked to me the mat official robbed Valencia. The quick replay I saw there was no singlet grab and he BEGGED for it to be confirmed. They should've went to review on their own to confirm. 

PSU is unreal and awesome. They had officiating on their side trying to make sure they win too!

Edited April 20 by SoonerKing

[Pinnacle]

They gave Burroughs a point for a Marstellar singlet grab after a match was over last year. That point changed the result of that match after it had ended in Marstellar's favor. Burroughs tried to then change the outcome of Match 2, then basically cried when he could not get the call at the end of Match 3.

The complaints over last night being biased are comical 

Edited April 20 by Pinnacle

[wrestle87]

11 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

They gave Burroughs a point for a Marstellar singlet grab after a match was over last year. That point changed the result of that match after it had ended in Marstellar's favor. Burroughs tried to then change the outcome of Match 2, then basically cried when he could not get the call at the end of Match 3.

The complaints over last night being biased are comical 

Item number 1) PSU fans behaved terribly toward burroughs.

Item number 2) Many people are demonstrating some impressive historic myopia in thinking about how this all balances with JB’s historical performances.

[Le duke]

I was really disappointed in the officiating bias towards PSU. Not only did JB win 2 challenges in his match against Nolf, the officials refused to make Nolf engage for 2.5 minutes of 2nd period. He flat out ran with no passivity calls or better yet cautions.
And it looked to me the mat official robbed Valencia. The quick replay I saw there was no singlet grab and he BEGGED for it to be confirmed. They should've went to review on their own to confirm. 
PSU is unreal and awesome. They had officiating on their side trying to make sure they win too!

Apparently you missed the many screenshots of the singlet pull from the OTT Session 2 thread.








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[BIGTENFANBOY]

1 hour ago, SoonerKing said:

I was really disappointed in the officiating bias towards PSU. Not only did JB win 2 challenges in his match against Nolf, the officials refused to make Nolf engage for 2.5 minutes of 2nd period. He flat out ran with no passivity calls or better yet cautions.

And it looked to me the mat official robbed Valencia. The quick replay I saw there was no singlet grab and he BEGGED for it to be confirmed. They should've went to review on their own to confirm. 

PSU is unreal and awesome. They had officiating on their side trying to make sure they win too!

The singlet grab did infact happen and it happened right in front of the ref. It happened and Valencia knew it. Get over it.

[lu_alum]

The singlet grab did infact happen and it happened right in front of the ref. It happened and Valencia knew it. Get over it.

The mat judge on that side also had a good view - and he white paddled it. Watch the video.


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[fatlaz]

It is hard to be upset about officiating of a sport that doesn't have any set rules.  I kid..I kid...kind of.

Edited April 20 by fatlaz

[BIGTENFANBOY]

Just now, lu_alum said:

The mat judge on that side also had a good view - and he white paddled it. Watch the video.


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And the photo shows it actually happened. It was the correct call. Get over it.

[JuanMogen]

36 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Apparently you missed the many screenshots of the singlet pull from the OTT Session 2 thread.








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Dude...that ref was on point. Everybody complaining about this call is showing THEIR bias. Zahid didn't challenge it because he knew he pulled the singlet. Zahid cost Zahid the match.

 

Brooks had a little bit of Jesus on his side last night. He might be on to something about this praying shit. I'm going to start going to church so I can get a few "singlet grabs" in my life. Turn this ship around.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, SoonerKing said:

I was really disappointed in the officiating bias towards PSU. Not only did JB win 2 challenges in his match against Nolf, the officials refused to make Nolf engage for 2.5 minutes of 2nd period. He flat out ran with no passivity calls or better yet cautions.

And it looked to me the mat official robbed Valencia. The quick replay I saw there was no singlet grab and he BEGGED for it to be confirmed. They should've went to review on their own to confirm. 

PSU is unreal and awesome. They had officiating on their side trying to make sure they win too!

You may want to reconsider your position after watching Gillman/Lee 1

[SoonerKing]

I obviously missed other thread and singlet pull.

[Ragu]

Singlet pull didn’t benefit Zahid nor did it stop an attack from Brooks. Should’ve gone uncalled

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 4/20/2024 at 9:47 AM, BIGTENFANBOY said:

The singlet grab did infact happen and it happened right in front of the ref. It happened and Valencia knew it. Get over it.

 

On 4/20/2024 at 9:20 AM, Le duke said:

Apparently you missed the many screenshots of the singlet pull from the OTT Session 2 thread.








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Somewhere, Sammy Henson may have considered shedding a tear.

[pokemonster]

1 hour ago, Ragu said:

Singlet pull didn’t benefit Zahid nor did it stop an attack from Brooks. Should’ve gone uncalled

There's no question the singlet pull happened, but I'm not sure on the rules around this. Is it an automatic point no matter what, or does it have to give the wrestler an advantage? I'm not sure how that little tug could have any effect on what's going on.

[Wrestleknownothing]

29 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

There's no question the singlet pull happened, but I'm not sure on the rules around this. Is it an automatic point no matter what, or does it have to give the wrestler an advantage? I'm not sure how that little tug could have any effect on what's going on.

Holding the opponent by the singlet is under "general prohibitions" and the penalty portion for those is pretty open to interpretation. I am guessing precedence comes into play too, but not sure.

"These general prohibitions are sanctioned based on the severity of the foul (disqualification, caution-1(2) point or verbal warning)."

[pokemonster]

Interesting. I would just like for our referees to call things similarly to international officials (aside from the scandals e.g. Chamizo of course) as it seems our domestic refs do not. 

[VakAttack]

The Zahid-Brooks thing was BS. it was incidental and didn't affect anything and should have gotten an attention call, if anything. Brooks was also the beneficiary in another close situation in his Dieringer match where he was in on Dieriger on a single, and it looked to me like Dieringer initiated an counter exposure.

The Nolf-Burroughs match was odd in that Nolf never even got warned, but Burroughs scored zero points, so I don't have much sympathy for that thought process.

On Gilman-Lee 1, I thought the call should have been 4, but as mentioned previously, I only really saw it out of the corner of my eye and the angle was bad.  I've seen the screenshot floating around, but a lot of the media guys have been saying 2 was the right call.  Either way, it was a close call that didn't go PSUs way.

[Dark Energy]

I started a whole thread on the speed of the reviews, but no one replied.  Sad.  So I’ll try again … the reviews went pretty quickly with good explanations post review.  Great progress on these fronts.

[Gantry]

5 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

I started a whole thread on the speed of the reviews, but no one replied.  Sad.  So I’ll try again … the reviews went pretty quickly with good explanations post review.  Great progress on these fronts.

I agree that was very nice with the speed an explanations.  Lets be honest a lot of us don't know the rules super well in free, so I learned a bit just from the challenge explanations.  Plus they showed them on the big screen, all positives which made the whole process less painful and fan-unfriendly. 

[Tony Rotundo]

On 4/22/2024 at 10:44 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Holding the opponent by the singlet is under "general prohibitions" and the penalty portion for those is pretty open to interpretation. I am guessing precedence comes into play too, but not sure.

"These general prohibitions are sanctioned based on the severity of the foul (disqualification, caution-1(2) point or verbal warning)."

Based on watching (and seeing in my photos) a LOT of singlet grabs, the Valencia call would never be called by the mat official oversees. And upon review, it would have been considered incidental and a verbal warning. There's no way that's called at Worlds. 

Who needs a verbal warning even, when you can just get in there and tell them to knock it off? lol

[Tony Rotundo]

On 4/20/2024 at 8:37 AM, SoonerKing said:

I was really disappointed in the officiating bias towards PSU. Not only did JB win 2 challenges in his match against Nolf, the officials refused to make Nolf engage for 2.5 minutes of 2nd period. He flat out ran with no passivity calls or better yet cautions.

And it looked to me the mat official robbed Valencia. The quick replay I saw there was no singlet grab and he BEGGED for it to be confirmed. They should've went to review on their own to confirm. 

PSU is unreal and awesome. They had officiating on their side trying to make sure they win too!

I'm not sure about a PSU bias, but I will say, in general, the officiating was sub-par at OTT. I know this is vague, but it just wasn't sharp and at an OTT level around confidence, mechanics, subjectivity, and decision making. I know were cycling through some of our (very good) officials, and there are newer folks on the call, so maybe it's growing pains? 

[wrestle87]

43 minutes ago, Tony Rotundo said:

Based on watching (and seeing in my photos) a LOT of singlet grabs, the Valencia call would never be called by the mat official oversees. And upon review, it would have been considered incidental and a verbal warning. There's no way that's called at Worlds. 

Who needs a verbal warning even, when you can just get in there and tell them to knock it off? lol

That very much depends on the situation and the intention.  If a ref can reach in and change the situation without affecting action, they can, they can also just call a point.  

So, a little thought experiment, I wrestled all the way through college, including tons of freestyle and greco, I never once pulled on a singlet, intentionally or otherwise, and I never once had it happen against me either.

Come to think of it…I also didn’t see any other singlet penalties throughout the entire tournament.  Now, I may have missed one…but I’d also find it very easy to believe that there weren’t any.

Also…just watched NCAA’s last month, singlet grabs again…not a major issue.  It’s almost like singlets are pretty good at their job and you have to go in search of the singlet to be able to grab it…

I also notice that none of brooks’ other opponents found grabbing the singlet difficult to avoid.  Come to think of it, off the top of my head, I can think of three wrestlers who so notably grabbed a singlet. 1) tsargush against burroughs 2) Yazdani against Taylor…and 3) valencia once again un-clutching himself in big moments.  The dude just always finds a way to lose by a takedown in the big matches.

…did anybody on here who wrestled have repeated chronic issues with grabbing headgear or singlets? I swear these gear designers might actually design them to be minimally invasive and hard to grab, almost like that was the point from the beginning…

I have zero tears to spill for the captain of team nose-beers.  Zahid ended his college career bc he overindulged in the good ol’ colombian pre-workout. 

Oh, he also very intentionally grabbed that singlet…he was the one who waived off the challenge. 

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

That very much depends on the situation and the intention.  If a ref can reach in and change the situation without affecting action, they can, they can also just call a point.  

So, a little thought experiment, I wrestled all the way through college, including tons of freestyle and greco, I never once pulled on a singlet, intentionally or otherwise, and I never once had it happen against me either.

Come to think of it…I also didn’t see any other singlet penalties throughout the entire tournament.  Now, I may have missed one…but I’d also find it very easy to believe that there weren’t any.

Also…just watched NCAA’s last month, singlet grabs again…not a major issue.  It’s almost like singlets are pretty good at their job and you have to go in search of the singlet to be able to grab it…

I also notice that none of brooks’ other opponents found grabbing the singlet difficult to avoid.  Come to think of it, off the top of my head, I can think of three wrestlers who so notably grabbed a singlet. 1) tsargush against burroughs 2) Yazdani against Taylor…and 3) valencia once again un-clutching himself in big moments.  The dude just always finds a way to lose by a takedown in the big matches.

…did anybody on here who wrestled have repeated chronic issues with grabbing headgear or singlets? I swear these gear designers might actually design them to be minimally invasive and hard to grab, almost like that was the point from the beginning…

I have zero tears to spill for the captain of team nose-beers.  Zahid ended his college career bc he overindulged in the good ol’ colombian pre-workout. 

Oh, he also very intentionally grabbed that singlet…he was the one who waived off the challenge. 

He waved off the challenge because if he lost, he'd need a takedown to win as.opposed to a pushout.

[forkemaz]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

That very much depends on the situation and the intention.  If a ref can reach in and change the situation without affecting action, they can, they can also just call a point.  

So, a little thought experiment, I wrestled all the way through college, including tons of freestyle and greco, I never once pulled on a singlet, intentionally or otherwise, and I never once had it happen against me either.

Come to think of it…I also didn’t see any other singlet penalties throughout the entire tournament.  Now, I may have missed one…but I’d also find it very easy to believe that there weren’t any.

Also…just watched NCAA’s last month, singlet grabs again…not a major issue.  It’s almost like singlets are pretty good at their job and you have to go in search of the singlet to be able to grab it…

I also notice that none of brooks’ other opponents found grabbing the singlet difficult to avoid.  Come to think of it, off the top of my head, I can think of three wrestlers who so notably grabbed a singlet. 1) tsargush against burroughs 2) Yazdani against Taylor…and 3) valencia once again un-clutching himself in big moments.  The dude just always finds a way to lose by a takedown in the big matches.

…did anybody on here who wrestled have repeated chronic issues with grabbing headgear or singlets? I swear these gear designers might actually design them to be minimally invasive and hard to grab, almost like that was the point from the beginning…

I have zero tears to spill for the captain of team nose-beers.  Zahid ended his college career bc he overindulged in the good ol’ colombian pre-workout. 

Oh, he also very intentionally grabbed that singlet…he was the one who waived off the challenge. 

You come off so biased here towards the end its hard to take you seriously. Yes accidentally getting tangled in a singlet happens, probably more so if you're fingers are taped. To say it never accidentally happens is pretty stupid in my opinion.

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, forkemaz said:

You come off so biased here towards the end its hard to take you seriously. Yes accidentally getting tangled in a singlet happens, probably more so if you're fingers are taped. To say it never accidentally happens is pretty stupid in my opinion.

I don't believe I'm being biased, I do think it's awfully convenient that Zahid just happens, once again...to be in the middle of another one of these situations.  Fool me five times, shame on you...but eventually, we are responsible for pattern recognition. 

I just don't find it hard to believe that it's something zahid would resort to based on past track record as 1) having done it before and 2) wrestling (and living life) in a way that tends towards finding the limits of which rules will actually be enforced, vs which rules are just given lip service.

Again, so many thousands of hours of wrestling happen regularly, so many wrestlers have zero problem NOT grabbing a singlet, headgear, etc...throughout their entire careers(!)

Buuuut...somehow this dude regularly winds up in spats, penalties, rules infractions...

It's like asking if Penn State has wrestling or if Jordan Burroughs hits double legs.