Governor Landry suggests pulling scholarships for athletes who skip National Anthem.

[jross]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

Funny how some like to misdirect and argue semantics when they realize their opinion on a topic is absolutely asinine.  Someone asking when is the last time someone in our military died for our freedoms is such a weak and feeble thought process it isn't even worth discussing.  Talk about entitled and privileged.  All the reasons people can sit here behind a computer screen and spew this ridiculous crap is all thanks to the fine men and woman who unselfishly serve our country to ensure our freedoms are never taken from us.  And they sit there and spit in their face. 

I know I said I wish the idiot who asked about the last time someone died for our freedoms should say it to my brothers face, but I know exactly what he would say because he is a great humble human being....he would say "It was my honor to serve so you can have the ability to say and ask the questions that you do without repercussion." 

He is asking the same questions that 99% of the sports audience asks themself.  This includes me.  These are natural questions.  I have no problem with asking questions. 

If you get the education and still show disrespect, then you have shown your ass.  Don't we all have family or friends negatively impacted by Military experiences or deaths?  Show your respect.

Find another way to express you dissapointment in the country without pissing on those who gave you the right.

[jross]

11 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

I was in the army. Most of the people in my unit or battalion couldn't have cared less. If you want to sit on your ass and not stand for the anthem, that's your decision. Forcing or coercing somebody into it is borderline facist. If you want to sit in the locker room because you're preparing for a game, that's your business.

This stupid debate boils down to a few things.

Are they hurting anyone by being in the locker room for the anthem? No.

Does being present or standing for it have any bearing on their performance? No.

Is it any of our business why people do what they do? No.

Do I take it as an insult? No. 

 

Regardless of your location, when you hear the anthem, you stop moving and show respect.  If you are out of the public view and don't hear the anthem, then go about your business.  An athlete need not be in public view during the anthem.  You do not walk out of view 10 seconds before or during the anthem.

We would not choose to force one to pay respect, and you do not show your ass and piss on those that sacrafice(d) for you.

[Paul158]

35 minutes ago, jross said:

Accurate

...Baseball fans in the late 19th century might’ve heard live military bands play the Star-Spangled Banner at a game every so often, but the song—which hadn’t yet been designated as the national anthem—wasn’t really a common occurrence at sporting events. That began to change on September 5, 1918, during  Game 1 of the World Series between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago Cubs.

...Yet even though the event featured two teams at the top of their games, the crowd was somber that day, writes ESPN The Magazine. Since entering the Great War a year and a half ago, more than 100,000 U.S. soldiers had died. And just a day before the game, a bomb had exploded in Chicago, (the city in which the game was held), killing four people and injuring dozens more. In addition, the U.S. government had recently announced that it would begin drafting major league baseball players.

All this sat heavy on the shoulders of both the players and the smaller-than-usual crowd of fans that day. But during the seventh-inning stretch, the U.S. Navy band began to play the Star-Spangled Banner; and something changed.

As the song began, Red Sox infielder Fred Thomas—who was in the Navy and had been granted furlough to play in the World Series—immediately turned toward the American flag and gave it a military salute, according to the Chicago Tribune. Other players turned to the flag with hands over hearts, and the already-standing crowd began to sing. At the song’s conclusion, the previously quiet fans erupted in thunderous applause. At the time, the New York Times reported that it “marked the highest point of the day’s enthusiasm.”

...The Star-Spangled Banner officially became the U.S. national anthem in 1931, and by the end of World War II,  NFL Commissioner Elmer Layden ordered that it be played at every football game. The tradition quickly spread to other sports, aided by the introduction of large sound systems and post-war patriotism.

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

Article 2 continues

...As time passed, playing and singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” became as routine as cracker jacks at ballgames. And for many the patriotic awe faded.

By the mid-1950s, with the nation at peace and increasingly fat and happy, crowds were less erect, less attentive and less respectful as the anthem was played.

In 1954, Ferris reports, the general manager of the Baltimore Orioles, Arthur Ellers, a World War I veteran complained that about the fact that fans went on talking, laughing and moving around as the anthem was played.

“‘To me,'” Ellers said, “‘it’s very distasteful.”

...Of course, while many fans do stop what they’re doing when the anthem is played, remove their hats and shush their children, others still laugh and talk and move about while the anthem is being played.

“The next time you’re at sporting event,” Kyle Koster, wrote in the The Big Lead in May, “take a look around notice how many people are locked into their phones, sipping their beer or worse during the playing of the anthem. It’s impossible to know someone’s inner thoughts, but the outward actions suggest someone counting the seconds until they can yell, ‘play ball’ instead of basking in freedoms of the First Amendment.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/30/a-brief-history-of-the-star-spangled-banner-being-played-at-games-and-getting-no-respect/

Thank you for sharing.

[lisa morales]

Trump was right.  Military people are all suckers.

[Offthemat]

6 minutes ago, lisa morales said:

Trump was right.  Military people are all suckers.

Make up your mind.

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, jross said:

He is asking the same questions that 99% of the sports audience asks themself.  This includes me.  These are natural questions.  I have no problem with asking questions. 

If you get the education and still show disrespect, then you have shown your ass.  Don't we all have family or friends negatively impacted by Military experiences or deaths?  Show your respect.

Find another way to express you dissapointment in the country without pissing on those who gave you the right.

A question that usually comes up when an offended person offers the option of 'just find a way to protest the thing without offending people'. 

Do you have any suggestions? 

What would or could be less offensive and still advocate for a point I/we feel strongly enough about, to protest? 

Simpler solution, be offended, but understand that making that suggestion promotes the argument that freedom is only for some but not all opinions. 

Edited April 5 by ThreePointTakedown

[jross]

Don't disrespect the miliary that sacraficed for you during the moments that warrant respect.

Don't make this about more than that.

When you are having your peaceful march and somewhere the flag and national anthem comes out, pay your respect, and then continue your march.

[Tripnsweep]

2 hours ago, jross said:

Regardless of your location, when you hear the anthem, you stop moving and show respect.  If you are out of the public view and don't hear the anthem, then go about your business.  An athlete need not be in public view during the anthem.  You do not walk out of view 10 seconds before or during the anthem.

We would not choose to force one to pay respect, and you do not show your ass and piss on those that sacrafice(d) for you.

Does it hurt anyone if you ignore the anthem? No. I remember when I went to a couple of playoff games during the Phoenix Suns run to the finals many years ago. During one game against San Antonio, they didn't even play the anthem at all. I think everyone just wanted to start the game. 

Yeah it has a symbolic meaning, blah blah. I stand for it at games and stuff. But I don't just drop what I'm doing if I hear it. I think that's kind of jingoistic. In the end it's just a song. It wouldn't matter if our anthem was "Call Me Maybe", I'd still feel the same. 

Best version of our anthem though. They should play this one all the time.

 

[jross]

Are you the type that takes selfies at funerals? Sheesh!

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Don't disrespect the miliary that sacraficed for you during the moments that warrant respect.

Don't make this about more than that.

When you are having your peaceful march and somewhere the flag and national anthem comes out, pay your respect, and then continue your march.

Sorry I keep coming back to this but what I see is, 'whatever feels right to me in that situation, is right'. 

No metric or scale to weigh the harm vs good. You want people to just do what you want them to do when you want them to do it and because.... you say so. 

Someone said earlier, that's borderline fascism. 

Perceived disrespect is just that. Perceived. No one is hurt by any of these actions.  Just the feelings of people that can't regulate their emotions. Then trying to force their beliefs onto others through guilt and intimidation. Reason goes right out the window. Because they don't have one. If anything, soldiers should be well versed in the 'why' of it all. To know what they are fighting for and how people use those freedoms. If they are not comfortable with that, they can change their mind or un-volunteer.  

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, Tripnsweep said:

Does it hurt anyone if you ignore the anthem? No. I remember when I went to a couple of playoff games during the Phoenix Suns run to the finals many years ago. During one game against San Antonio, they didn't even play the anthem at all. I think everyone just wanted to start the game. 

Yeah it has a symbolic meaning, blah blah. I stand for it at games and stuff. But I don't just drop what I'm doing if I hear it. I think that's kind of jingoistic. In the end it's just a song. It wouldn't matter if our anthem was "Call Me Maybe", I'd still feel the same. 

Best version of our anthem though. They should play this one all the time.

 

Was played at the Vegas tournament at least once. Was cut off half way to get the wrestling started. I thought it was awesome! Partially wanted to hear the whole thing also, paid for the ticket to see wrestling. 

[jross]

TPTD, if there ever was a moment for "whatabouts," a forte of yours, it's now, to reflect on those who sacrificed for you. Not all actions carry equal weight. It's reminiscent of the child who refuses to contribute to a class project. While they have the right to abstain, I reserve the right to perceive them as privileged, entitled, thoughtless, and lacking of EQ.

These ilk have no idea what respect and timing is.  They go to funerals as a good place to network.  They answer the phone while taking their wedding vows.  They crinkle their chip bag and provide commentary during tense moments of a movie.  They play music loudly in the library during finals week.  They throw a kegger at an AA convention.  The people are free; bless their jerkish hearts.
 

Edited April 5 by jross

[Paul158]

9 minutes ago, jross said:

TPTD, if there ever was a moment for "whatabouts," a forte of yours, it's now, to reflect on those who sacrificed for you. Not all actions carry equal weight. It's reminiscent of the child who refuses to contribute to a class project. While they have the right to abstain, I reserve the right to perceive them as privileged, entitled, thoughtless, and lacking of EQ.

These ilk have no idea what respect and timing is.  They go to funerals as a good place to network.  They answer the phone while taking their wedding vows.  They crinkle their chip bag and provide commentary during tense moments of a movie.  They play music loudly in the library during finals week.  They throw a kegger at an AA convention.  The people are free; bless their jerkish hearts.
 

Substance vs. Superficial .Two different worlds.

[uncle bernard]

16 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

I was in the army. Most of the people in my unit or battalion couldn't have cared less. If you want to sit on your ass and not stand for the anthem, that's your decision. Forcing or coercing somebody into it is borderline facist. If you want to sit in the locker room because you're preparing for a game, that's your business.

This stupid debate boils down to a few things.

Are they hurting anyone by being in the locker room for the anthem? No.

Does being present or standing for it have any bearing on their performance? No.

Is it any of our business why people do what they do? No.

Do I take it as an insult? No. 

 

Can't help but notice nobody is acknowledging the actual veteran's opinion on this lol. Being mad at everything is too important to them.

Well said sir.

IIRC @Le duke is also a veteran being shouted down for having a reasonable take.

Maybe our board "patriots" just hate our troops?

Edited April 5 by uncle bernard

[ThreePointTakedown]

32 minutes ago, jross said:

TPTD, if there ever was a moment for "whatabouts," a forte of yours, it's now, to reflect on those who sacrificed for you. Not all actions carry equal weight. It's reminiscent of the child who refuses to contribute to a class project. While they have the right to abstain, I reserve the right to perceive them as privileged, entitled, thoughtless, and lacking of EQ.

These ilk have no idea what respect and timing is.  They go to funerals as a good place to network.  They answer the phone while taking their wedding vows.  They crinkle their chip bag and provide commentary during tense moments of a movie.  They play music loudly in the library during finals week.  They throw a kegger at an AA convention.  The people are free; bless their jerkish hearts.
 

Yes, that is probably true. Because you were probably brought up to believe that. Would it be true? You have no idea because rather then trying to understand the child's reasons or motivations, you are perfectly comfortable assuming something of them that makes you feel superior and them morally inferior. 

Who are you talking about? What ilk? People you don't like? Seems as if your examples get more and more outlandish. So much so that I dare say you are making them up or would be hard pressed to admit that you've had first hand experience with each of these situations. The chip bag thing drives me crazy. 

You're yelling at clouds again with this one. It bothers you. That's frustrating, I know. But your yelling is only that. It serves no purpose but to undercut your point. Freedom needs defending, unfortunately. Using that freedom should not be mocked or derided when it HURTS NO ONE, just because you don't happen to like it. 

Why is it these issues can't just be a 'self accountability' issue? If you wouldn't do it, then don't. If others do and you don't like it, you can tell them or not associate yourself with them. But you're not doing either of those things. You're yelling to a mob and trying rally support for an issue that hurts no one. And I've mentioned it before, but bringing such fervor to a mob over an imagined slight, there is a greater than 0% chance that someone in the mob that you are yelling to, will go out of their way to hurt your perceived enemy. 

To sum up: Does your ranting do anything to remedy your feeling of being slighted? No. Does it increase the likelihood of real, physical harm coming to one or more of the 'ilk' you claim is responsible for your hurt feelings? Yes. 

[Le duke]

Can't help but notice nobody is acknowledging the actual veteran's opinion on this lol. Being mad at everything is too important to them.
Well said sir.
IIRC [mention=70]Le duke[/mention] is also a veteran being shouted down for having a reasonable take.
Maybe our board "patriots" just hate our troops?

People like the idea of supporting the troops more than actually supporting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jross]

Are they the only two veteran opinions that matter? Arthur Ellers is a war vet that cared.  I have family with PTSD who lost military brothers.  One (Marine) was shot and shot others.  Joined after 9/11.  He supports freedom.  He sees clowning during the anthem as disrespect. My father was Air Force and did not see combat.  He drank beer, played ping pong, and kept the pilots entertained to bide time in case they were needed.  He set me straight in the 80s when I was too young to understand.

Edited April 5 by jross

[WrestlingRasta]

8 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

People like the idea of supporting the troops more than actually supporting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Or maybe not even the idea, but just the platform to scream “I’m a patriot”, even if their beliefs/behavior doesn’t match up. 

[WrestlingRasta]

20 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Can't help but notice nobody is acknowledging the actual veteran's opinion on this lol. Being mad at everything is too important to them.

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

15 minutes ago, jross said:

Are they the only two veteran opinions that matter? Arthur Ellers is a war vet that cared.  I have family with PTSD who lost military brothers.  One (Marine) was shot and shot others.  Joined after 9/11.  He supports freedom.  He sees clowning during the anthem as disrespect. My father was Air Force and did not see combat.  He drank beer, played ping pong, and kept the pilots entertained to bide time in case they were needed.  He set me straight in the 80s when I was too young to understand.

Its disappointing that you feel its funny someone pointing out the chance of the real harm your words may visit upon someone. For the unforgiveable sin of not sharing your values on a topic that causes no physical harm to anyone! 

Interesting this topic revolves around the military of all things and that the irony is lost on you. 

Shocked but at the same time not surprised. 

Carry on yelling at clouds and putting teenagers in danger! 

[Tripnsweep]

People just want a reason to be mad at people they probably disagree with politically. That's what I get from reading this topic. 

I'm sure there some people think that sitting, ignoring, not being present or not paying attention during the anthem is disrespectful. And guess what? They are 100% entitled to believe that. And I also think that we have the wonderful freedom in this country to decide whether we do that or not. 

Ultimately, it's just a song played as part of the pregame show now. It's so ingrained into sporting events that it's routine. 

I remember when Mahmoud Abdul-Raouf started sitting down during the anthem when I was in middle school. It was in the paper for less than a week and that was it. 

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Can't help but notice nobody is acknowledging the actual veteran's opinion on this lol. Being mad at everything is too important to them.

Well said sir.

IIRC @Le duke is also a veteran being shouted down for having a reasonable take.

Maybe our board "patriots" just hate our troops?

Or maybe they know troops that fought for this country that have different viewpoints.  

[jross]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Can't help but notice nobody is acknowledging the actual veteran's opinion on this lol. Being mad at everything is too important to them.

Well said sir.

IIRC @Le duke is also a veteran being shouted down for having a reasonable take.

Maybe our board "patriots" just hate our troops?

Did anybody shout him down? 

Did anybody say they don't care about what frustrates athletes?

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Its disappointing that you feel its funny someone pointing out the chance of the real harm your words may visit upon someone. For the unforgiveable sin of not sharing your values on a topic that causes no physical harm to anyone! 

Interesting this topic revolves around the military of all things and that the irony is lost on you. 

Shocked but at the same time not surprised. 

Carry on yelling at clouds and putting teenagers in danger! 

Its dissapointing that you have strong opinions on pronoun usage that causes no physical harm to anyone! 

See how that works?

Will you explain the irony to me?  Why does it bother you that I think people who exercise their right to skirt the anthem protocol are jerks?  

[JimmyBT]

4 hours ago, jross said:

Its dissapointing that you have strong opinions on pronoun usage that causes no physical harm to anyone! 

See how that works?

Will you explain the irony to me?  Why does it bother you that I think people who exercise their right to skirt the anthem protocol are jerks?  

Because free speech only pertains to people that think like him.