Conference Movement for Next Year

[bracketbuster]

Does anybody know what is the plan for the remaining PAC-12 schools for this coming year? I believe the conferences will be as follows and you need at least six schools to earn allocations to the NCAA Tournament. I also don't know if Morgan State has found a conference home.

ACC - Adds Stanford (7 schools)
Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Stanford, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Big 12 - Adds Arizona State (14 schools)
Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Iowa State, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, South Dakota State, Utah Valley, West Virginia, Wyoming

Big 10 - remains same (14 schools)
Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Wisconsin

EIWA - splits with Ivy (11 schools)
American, Army, Binghamton, Bucknell, Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Hofstra, Lehigh, LIU, Navy, Sacred Heart

Ivy - New conference (6 schools)
Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Penn, Princeton

MAC - stays same (13 schools)
Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, George Mason, Kent State, Lock Haven, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Rider, SIU-Edwardsville

SoCon - Bellarmine is now eligible I believe (9 schools)
Appalachian State, Bellarmine, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Gardner Webb, Presbyterian, The Citadel, VMI

Unknown Schools to me - 5
Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Little Rock, Oregon State, Morgan State

As a personal preference, I think Morgan State to the MAC makes sense even though they want EIWA. I would also love for parity and competive balance out west to see the PAC 12 & Big 12 schools divide into Power 5 and non-power 5 conference.
Power 5: Arizona State, Iowa State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Non-Power Five: Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Little Rock, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Oregon State, South Dakota State, Utah Valley, Wyoming

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, bracketbuster said:

 Big 12 schools divide into Power 5 and non-power 5 conference.

Power 5: Arizona State, Iowa State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Non-Power Five: Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Little Rock, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Oregon State, South Dakota State, Utah Valley, Wyoming

What is the advantage of splitting into Power 5 vs Non?  

[bracketbuster]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

What is the advantage of splitting into Power 5 vs Non?  

My hope would be that it creates a little more parity and more access to NCAA Tournament for individuals from those schools since they would get allocations and wouldn't have to go through numerous rounds of wrestlebacks against the Power Five schools. I would also hope its gives those schools a chance to compete for a conference championship and keep them relevant in their athletic departments in a time where wrestling is on the chopping block. Maybe that doesn't matter to ADs and Presidents but right now I can't see a scenario where a non-power five team competes for a conference title.

This is just one year but as good as South Dakota State was they were 30 points behind Iowa State in the 12 team Big 12. Northern Iowa was 50 back. Oregon State was around 20 points back in a six team conference and they probably are not going to have as much TV revenue coming in going forward depending on where they end up.

[Wrestleknownothing]

52 minutes ago, bracketbuster said:

Does anybody know what is the plan for the remaining PAC-12 schools for this coming year? I believe the conferences will be as follows and you need at least six schools to earn allocations to the NCAA Tournament. I also don't know if Morgan State has found a conference home.

ACC - Adds Stanford (7 schools)
Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Stanford, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Big 12 - Adds Arizona State (14 schools)
Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Iowa State, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, South Dakota State, Utah Valley, West Virginia, Wyoming

Big 10 - remains same (14 schools)
Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Wisconsin

EIWA - splits with Ivy (11 schools)
American, Army, Binghamton, Bucknell, Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Hofstra, Lehigh, LIU, Navy, Sacred Heart

Ivy - New conference (6 schools)
Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Penn, Princeton

MAC - stays same (13 schools)
Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, George Mason, Kent State, Lock Haven, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Rider, SIU-Edwardsville

SoCon - Bellarmine is now eligible I believe (9 schools)
Appalachian State, Bellarmine, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Gardner Webb, Presbyterian, The Citadel, VMI

Unknown Schools to me - 5
Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Little Rock, Oregon State, Morgan State

As a personal preference, I think Morgan State to the MAC makes sense even though they want EIWA. I would also love for parity and competive balance out west to see the PAC 12 & Big 12 schools divide into Power 5 and non-power 5 conference.
Power 5: Arizona State, Iowa State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Non-Power Five: Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Little Rock, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, Oregon State, South Dakota State, Utah Valley, Wyoming

I believe Pac12 gets an exception next year and wrestles with 4 teams and only an AQ per weight, no other allocation.

[nhs67]

I am curious what sort of agreement Air Force and Wyoming are obligated to due to the Pac12(OSUW/WSU) and the MWest agreement.  It would be nice/cool to see them grab them to make it back to six schools.  In order for them to get AQ they need to get those two at the very least.

[ionel]

7 hours ago, bracketbuster said:

My hope would be that it creates a little more parity and more access to NCAA Tournament for individuals from those schools since they would get allocations and wouldn't have to go through numerous rounds of wrestlebacks against the Power Five schools. I would also hope its gives those schools a chance to compete for a conference championship and keep them relevant in their athletic departments in a time where wrestling is on the chopping block. Maybe that doesn't matter to ADs and Presidents but right now I can't see a scenario where a non-power five team competes for a conference title.

This is just one year but as good as South Dakota State was they were 30 points behind Iowa State in the 12 team Big 12. Northern Iowa was 50 back. Oregon State was around 20 points back in a six team conference and they probably are not going to have as much TV revenue coming in going forward depending on where they end up.

I'd swap Oklahoma for Oregon St and West Virginia for Little Rock.  Maybe let Maryland, Rutgers, Northwestern, Indiana and Michigan St join the Non Power conference.  

[nhs67]

MAC and SoCON both would make sense for Morgan State, from a georgraphical standpoint.  From a logistics, I am thinking SoCON makes a bit more sense.

I also would like to see the MAC get one more school, somehow, to make an even 14.  I had dove in to it at 3:00 AM some time ago and I do think some of the EIWA schools share a conference with some of the MAC affiliate schools in other conferences.  I might be dreaming here.  It was a while ago I was looking at this, so it might be wishful thinking.

Actually looking back at it now (briefly) it looks like Bellarmine and App State are affiliate members for other sports, so perhaps Bellarmine to MAC looks a good fit to get to 14.

[nhs67]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

I'd swap Oklahoma for Oregon St and West Virginia for Little Rock.  Maybe let Maryland, Rutgers, Northwestern, Indiana and Michigan St join the Non Power conference.  

Prepare to be flamed.

[Idaho]

PAC 12:

1. Can wrestle with 4 teams as a conference for two years - but they only get the champion as an AQ and the rest fall into at large bids. So technically the conference is not done. 

2. With the temporary merger with the MW for football, it is possible that AirForce and Wyoming move to the Pac 12 conference for wrestling. There are rumblings that some Big 12 teams are not happy with the conference. 

3. The teams could all join the Big 12 for wrestling creating a logical East and West division (as noted by someone else). 

4. Will Little Rock stay or join a conference closer to home? That's a good question.

5. As mentioned before,  there are rumblings of teams not being happy in the Big 12. Is it possible there is an exodus of a couple of teams? 

IMO (as well as a majority of people) there are teams that should leave and connect to the Pac 12 as a Western conference - such as UNC, Utah Valley, Wyoming, Air Force, Cal Baptist. 

 

[MidwestMan]

My, my!  Wouldn't that make too much damn sense.  Would love to see ULRA in Big 12 just because of geography, but what gives them the best path to success and continual growth of their program?  Would SoCon make better sense, or hang with the Pac 12 if those other teams bolt?  I just can't get my head around all the travel that goes on for student/athletes with some of these ridiculous alignments.  I was a really big fan of the "Big 8".  Guess it's like listening to classic rock these days.

Edited April 1 by MidwestMan

[killdozer]

ULR wants to join the Big XII and my guess is Oregon State would want to for all sports. 

I think what may happen is when Tarleton State joins D-I. They make the WAC which has Utah Valley, Tarleton State and Cal Baptist in the conference. Then have the Cal teams join in Bakersfield and Cal Poly. Then possibly Wyoming, Northern Colorado and Air Force join to make the WAC.
So it would be 
WAC- Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Northern Colorado, Tarleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming
Big XII - Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Iowa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Northern Iowa, West Virginia

 

Or what I would like just add all to the Big XII. An 18 team conference. Also, I think Morgan State will join the EIWA before either the MAC or the SoCon

Edited April 1 by killdozer

[MidwestMan]

Plus Arizona State and South Dakota State in Big 12.

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, killdozer said:

ULR wants to join the Big XII and my guess is Oregon State would want to for all sports. 

As said before, all indication is OU kept ULR out of the B12.  OU shouldn't have much input anymore.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Prepare to be flamed.

I'm ready.

[nhs67]

29 minutes ago, killdozer said:

ULR wants to join the Big XII and my guess is Oregon State would want to for all sports. 

I think what may happen is when Tarleton State joins D-I. They make the WAC which has Utah Valley, Tarleton State and Cal Baptist in the conference. Then have the Cal teams join in Bakersfield and Cal Poly. Then possibly Wyoming, Northern Colorado and Air Force join to make the WAC.
So it would be 
WAC- Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Northern Colorado, Tarleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming
Big XII - Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Iowa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Northern Iowa, West Virginia

 

Or what I would like just add all to the Big XII. An 18 team conference. Also, I think Morgan State will join the EIWA before either the MAC or the SoCon

From a marketing standpoint, what you are calling the WAC might be the P12.  Oregon State and Washington State want to keep the Pac12 functioning and in order as a Power 5.  They are going to do whatever they can to do that over the course of the next two years... unless the B12 invites them in as a merger (of sorts).  I do think the Mountain West would be willing to bite whatever bullet they are not currently biting to do so, if it meant being included as a Power 5 conference still.

[Idaho]

What if conferences were aligned by NIL? 

1. Top 5 $$$ teams are in their own conference called "NIL Conference" - everyone else is in the "Other Conference"

2. NIL Conference sends their winner only to the NCAA since they only have 5 and need 6 to be a legit conference.

3. The Other Conference uses the same process we have now to fill out the other 32 spots.

4. Transfer portal stays within it's own conference.... in other words, wrestlers can't switch conferences. 

5. All duals and tournaments are separate....NIL Conference can wrestle each other 3x each in duals  (12 duals) to have a series winner. They can have 3 tournaments where they all wrestle each other again.  Other Confernce has whatever tournaments they want with whatever teams they want within the Other Conference participants. 

6. At the NCAA tournament, the top "Other Conference" team has the option to move to the NIL Conference the next season. However the NIL Conference still only gets the champ. 

 

 

[killdozer]

3 hours ago, MidwestMan said:

Plus Arizona State and South Dakota State in Big 12.

Whoops, I knew I was forgetting a couple. My Bad. 
So Big XII Then

Arizona State, Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Iowa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota State, & West Virginia

I personally would love if the Big XII for wrestling would just invite all of the Pac 12. So then in a few years it would be (when Tarleton Joins):

Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota State, Tarleton State, Utah Valley, West Virginia, & Wyoming.
That would be almost half (9) of the Top 20 teams from the past NCAA's. 

That would be 81 Preallocated Spots for Nationals this year. 
125- 8, 133- 9, 141- 7, 149- 9, 157- 9, 165- 8, 174- 8, 184- 6, 197- 9, 285- 8
Plus the addition of At-Large Selections:
125- 3, 133- 2, 141- 1, 149- 1, 157- 2, 165- 0, 174- 1, 184- 2, 197 -1, 285- 1
for a total of 95 Qualifiers. The Big 10 had 96 Qualifiers this year. So if that would happen  Almost 58% of the qualifiers would be from those two conferences. 
27 All-Americans would come from the new Big XII
30 All-Americans came from the Big 10. So 71.25% of the All-Americans would come from those two conferences.

 
 

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

9 minutes ago, killdozer said:

I personally would love if the Big XII for wrestling would just invite all of the Pac 12. So then in a few years it would be (when Tarleton Joins):

Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota State, Tarleton State, Utah Valley, West Virginia, & Wyoming.
That would be almost half (9) of the Top 20 teams from the past NCAA's. 

That would be 81 Preallocated Spots for Nationals this year. 
125- 8, 133- 9, 141- 7, 149- 9, 157- 9, 165- 8, 174- 8, 184- 6, 197- 9, 285- 8
Plus the addition of At-Large Selections:
125- 3, 133- 2, 141- 1, 149- 1, 157- 2, 165- 0, 174- 1, 184- 2, 197 -1, 285- 1
for a total of 95 Qualifiers. The Big 10 had 96 Qualifiers this year. So if that would happen  Almost 58% of the qualifiers would be from those two conferences. 
27 All-Americans would come from the new Big XII
30 All-Americans came from the Big 10. So 71.25% of the All-Americans would come from those two conferences.

I'm not sure how it would help wrestling for 70%+ of AAs and majority of the field to come from just two conferences? 

[killdozer]

I personally think the Conference tournaments are antiquated and not a good way to be a national qualifier.
I think what should happen is we are divided into 4 Regionals with the Top 8 come out (Wild Cards will be explained later). East, North, South, and West (once Bellermine, Tarleton State, and Morgan State join DI).
So here is how you divide them (*= Swing team that could go different regionals if needed)

East- (20 Teams) American*, Army, Binghampton, Brown, Bucknell, Columbia, Cornell,  Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Harvard, Hofstra, Maryland, Penn State, Penn, Princeton,  Rider, Rutgers, Sacred Heart, Navy, 
South- (20 Teams)Appalchian State, Bellermine*, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Duke, Gardner-Webb, George Mason, Kent State, Morgan State, NC State, North Carolina, Ohio, Ohio State, Presbyterian, The Citadel, Virginia, Virginia Military, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
North- (19 Teams) Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Lock Haven, Michigan, Michigan State, Northern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Purdue, SIU-Edwardsville*, Wisconsin
West- (20 Teams) Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, Minnesota*, Nebraska, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, South Dakota State, Stanford, Traleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming

You might be saying.. "Wow that West regional looks much tougher than the rest overall" and you would be correct. So to stop one regional being exponentially harder than the other.  There is one of two ways to do this. 
A) Take the top 16 teams from the previous years NCAA and divide them up with either the highest placing team going to their regional or next available regional. So, Now it would look like this. I like this way because every team knows where they are going before the season and plan accordingly. Also, The Regionals are held in major cities in the areas.
East- Philly, New York, Baltimore, 
South- Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, 
North- Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland
West: KC, Denver, Tulsa
East- (20 Teams)  #1 Penn State, #8 Nebraska, #9 Virginia Tech, #16 Wisconsin, Army, Binghampton, Brown, Bucknell, Columbia, Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Harvard, Hofstra, Maryland, Navy, Penn,  Rider, Rutgers, Sacred Heart
South- (20 Teams)#4 Ohio State, #5 Missouri, #12 North Carolina,, #13 Princeton, Appalchian State, Bellermine, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Duke, Gardner-Webb, George Mason, Morgan State, Ohio, Presbyterian, The Citadel, Virginia, Virginia Military, West Virginia, American (Moves from East to make it 20)
North- (20 Teams) #2 Iowa, #7 Arizona State, #10 NC State, #15 Minnesota, Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, Illinois, Indiana, Lock Haven, Michigan, Michigan State, Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Purdue, SIU-Edwardsville, Kent State (Moves from south to make it 20)
West- (19 Teams) #3 Cornell, #6 Michigan, #11 Iowa State, #14 South Dakota State, Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Little Rock, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Stanford, Traleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming, Northern Iowa (Moves here to make it 19)

B) A Dual meet Nationals in Feb. Where the conference champions and some Wild cards meet. This is over two weeks. 
Conference Champions (EIWA, IVY, ACC, Big XII North, Big XII South, SOCON, Big 10 North, Big 10 South, MAC) Host two other teams of conference 2nd placers and Wild Cards. and each team does two dual meets. and the top two come out and go to National Duals. Then at duals they wrestle to 16th (4 matches per team over a 2 or 3 day period). Then you divide the teams up. Using This years nationals as national dual placing:
East: #1 Penn State, # 8 Ohio State, #9 Nebraska, #16 Stanford
South: #2 Cornell, #7 Virginia Tech, #10 Oklahoma State, #15 Lehigh
North: #3 Michigan, #6 Arizona State, #11 Missouri, Northern Iowa
West: #4 Iowa State, #5 Iowa, #12 NC State, #13 South Dakota State

There is more to model B. As to Conference Dual January. Also all your tournaments and non conference duals are done in Nov/Dec. 

West is still a bit tougher, But not 6 of the top 16 team tougher.

So then the top 8 qualify for Nationals (True 8th Place matches if needed)
Then whomever places 9th has a 4 man bracket to see who is the 33rd man in the bracket the Wednesday before nationals. Whomever wins gets the 33rd seed (well sort of) and then you have your 1st, 2nd, 3rd alternates.
Now as far as seeding. There is no more seeding per say.
You only seed the Regional Champions. For instance if we go by this year at 125 (and the champions are done by the highest seed at nationals just to take opinions out of the mix and using model A)
East: Brendan Davis, Penn State, North: Drake Ayala, Iowa, South: Noah Surtin, Missouri (He would have been the highest seeded wrestler from the Regional), West: Jore Volk, Wyoming.
So the seeding would have gone
1. Ayala 2. Davis, 3. Surtin, 4. Volk 
Remember Ayala Beat Davis in the dual and Surtin beat Volk in the dual.
The 33rd entry would have probably been say Diego Sotelo of Harvard and he would have wrestled Tanner Jordan to then take on Ayala.
one side of the bracket would have had Ayala, Volk, Richie Figs, Unger, Stanich, Barnett, Poulin
The other Side would have: Surtin, Davis, Smith, Barnett, Ramos, Camacho, Spratley, Camacho, Provo
So say Ayala and Figs are in the same regional and Ayala beats Figs in the finals they are on the opposite side of the bracket. They have no chance of meeting till the finals.

 

I think this is more fair. Opinions?

Edited April 1 by killdozer

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

23 minutes ago, killdozer said:

I personally think the Conference tournaments are antiquated and not a good way to be a national qualifier.
I think what should happen is we are divided into 4 Regionals with the Top 8 come out (Wild Cards will be explained later). East, North, South, and West (once Bellermine, Tarleton State, and Morgan State join DI).
So here is how you divide them (*= Swing team that could go different regionals if needed)

East- (20 Teams) American*, Army, Binghampton, Brown, Bucknell, Columbia, Cornell,  Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Harvard, Hofstra, Maryland, Penn State, Penn, Princeton,  Rider, Rutgers, Sacred Heart, Navy, 
South- (20 Teams)Appalchian State, Bellermine*, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Duke, Gardner-Webb, George Mason, Kent State, Morgan State, NC State, North Carolina, Ohio, Ohio State, Presbyterian, The Citadel, Virginia, Virginia Military, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
North- (19 Teams) Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Lock Haven, Michigan, Michigan State, Northern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Purdue, SIU-Edwardsville*, Wisconsin
West- (20 Teams) Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, Minnesota*, Nebraska, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, South Dakota State, Stanford, Traleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming

You might be saying.. "Wow that West regional looks much tougher than the rest overall" and you would be correct. So to stop one regional being exponentially harder than the other.  There is one of two ways to do this. 
A) Take the top 16 teams from the previous years NCAA and divide them up with either the highest placing team going to their regional or next available regional. So, Now it would look like this. I like this way because every team knows where they are going before the season and plan accordingly. Also, The Regionals are held in major cities in the areas.
East- Philly, New York, Baltimore, 
South- Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, 
North- Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland
West: KC, Denver, Tulsa
East- (20 Teams)  #1 Penn State, #8 Nebraska, #9 Virginia Tech, #16 Wisconsin, Army, Binghampton, Brown, Bucknell, Columbia, Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Harvard, Hofstra, Maryland, Navy, Penn,  Rider, Rutgers, Sacred Heart
South- (20 Teams)#4 Ohio State, #5 Missouri, #12 North Carolina,, #13 Princeton, Appalchian State, Bellermine, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Duke, Gardner-Webb, George Mason, Morgan State, Ohio, Presbyterian, The Citadel, Virginia, Virginia Military, West Virginia, American (Moves from East to make it 20)
North- (20 Teams) #2 Iowa, #7 Arizona State, #10 NC State, #15 Minnesota, Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, Illinois, Indiana, Lock Haven, Michigan, Michigan State, Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Purdue, SIU-Edwardsville, Kent State (Moves from south to make it 20)
West- (19 Teams) #3 Cornell, #6 Michigan, #11 Iowa State, #14 South Dakota State, Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Little Rock, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Stanford, Traleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming, Northern Iowa (Moves here to make it 19)

B) A Dual meet Nationals in Feb. Where the conference champions and some Wild cards meet. This is over two weeks. 
Conference Champions (EIWA, IVY, ACC, Big XII North, Big XII South, SOCON, Big 10 North, Big 10 South, MAC) Host two other teams of conference 2nd placers and Wild Cards. and each team does two dual meets. and the top two come out and go to National Duals. Then at duals they wrestle to 16th (4 matches per team over a 2 or 3 day period). Then you divide the teams up. Using This years nationals as national dual placing:
East: #1 Penn State, # 8 Ohio State, #9 Nebraska, #16 Stanford
South: #2 Cornell, #7 Virginia Tech, #10 Oklahoma State, #15 Lehigh
North: #3 Michigan, #6 Arizona State, #11 Missouri, Northern Iowa
West: #4 Iowa State, #5 Iowa, #12 NC State, #13 South Dakota State

There is more to model B. As to Conference Dual January. Also all your tournaments and non conference duals are done in Nov/Dec. 

West is still a bit tougher, But not 6 of the top 16 team tougher.

So then the top 8 qualify for Nationals (True 8th Place matches if needed)
Then whomever places 9th has a 4 man bracket to see who is the 33rd man in the bracket the Wednesday before nationals. Whomever wins gets the 33rd seed (well sort of) and then you have your 1st, 2nd, 3rd alternates.
Now as far as seeding. There is no more seeding per say.
You only seed the Regional Champions. For instance if we go by this year at 125 (and the champions are done by the highest seed at nationals just to take opinions out of the mix and using model A)
East: Brendan Davis, Penn State, North: Drake Ayala, Iowa, South: Noah Surtin, Missouri (He would have been the highest seeded wrestler from the Regional), West: Jore Volk, Wyoming.
So the seeding would have gone
1. Ayala 2. Davis, 3. Surtin, 4. Volk 
Remember Ayala Beat Davis in the dual and Surtin beat Volk in the dual.
The 33rd entry would have probably been say Diego Sotelo of Harvard and he would have wrestled Tanner Jordan to then take on Ayala.
one side of the bracket would have had Ayala, Volk, Richie Figs, Unger, Stanich, Barnett, Poulin
The other Side would have: Surtin, Davis, Smith, Barnett, Ramos, Camacho, Spratley, Camacho, Provo
So say Ayala and Figs are in the same regional and Ayala beats Figs in the finals they are on the opposite side of the bracket. They have no chance of meeting till the finals.

 

I think this is more fair. Opinions?

Well thought out, I couldn’t agree more! Screw the conferences and do it by regions. 

[Jason Bryant]

Until we see Division I de-emphasize conference affiliations across the board, any format that fractures a conference-based structure is a death sentence, IMO. 

That being said, I like where you're going with it @killdozer, providing balance and logic to the topic - which we know isn't something we always like to apply to the sport. 

[Show_Me]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I'm not sure how it would help wrestling for 70%+ of AAs and majority of the field to come from just two conferences? 

There were already too many Conference rematches in the 1st round of NCAA’s this year.  This expanded B12 idea would result in even more rematches which is not good IMO.

Personally, I wish that a priority was placed on NOT having Conf rematches in the 1st round but the Seeding Committee appears to be doing just the opposite … or so it seems.

[gimpeltf]

Lehigh only gets to be in the Dual championships?

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, killdozer said:

I personally think the Conference tournaments are antiquated and not a good way to be a national qualifier.
I think what should happen is we are divided into 4 Regionals with the Top 8 come out (Wild Cards will be explained later). East, North, South, and West (once Bellermine, Tarleton State, and Morgan State join DI).
So here is how you divide them (*= Swing team that could go different regionals if needed)

East- (20 Teams) American*, Army, Binghampton, Brown, Bucknell, Columbia, Cornell,  Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Harvard, Hofstra, Maryland, Penn State, Penn, Princeton,  Rider, Rutgers, Sacred Heart, Navy, 
South- (20 Teams)Appalchian State, Bellermine*, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Duke, Gardner-Webb, George Mason, Kent State, Morgan State, NC State, North Carolina, Ohio, Ohio State, Presbyterian, The Citadel, Virginia, Virginia Military, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
North- (19 Teams) Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Lock Haven, Michigan, Michigan State, Northern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Purdue, SIU-Edwardsville*, Wisconsin
West- (20 Teams) Air Force, Arizona State, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Iowa State, Little Rock, Missouri, Minnesota*, Nebraska, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, South Dakota State, Stanford, Traleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming

You might be saying.. "Wow that West regional looks much tougher than the rest overall" and you would be correct. So to stop one regional being exponentially harder than the other.  There is one of two ways to do this. 
A) Take the top 16 teams from the previous years NCAA and divide them up with either the highest placing team going to their regional or next available regional. So, Now it would look like this. I like this way because every team knows where they are going before the season and plan accordingly. Also, The Regionals are held in major cities in the areas.
East- Philly, New York, Baltimore, 
South- Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, 
North- Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland
West: KC, Denver, Tulsa
East- (20 Teams)  #1 Penn State, #8 Nebraska, #9 Virginia Tech, #16 Wisconsin, Army, Binghampton, Brown, Bucknell, Columbia, Drexel, Franklin & Marshall, Harvard, Hofstra, Maryland, Navy, Penn,  Rider, Rutgers, Sacred Heart
South- (20 Teams)#4 Ohio State, #5 Missouri, #12 North Carolina,, #13 Princeton, Appalchian State, Bellermine, Campbell, Chattanooga, Davidson, Duke, Gardner-Webb, George Mason, Morgan State, Ohio, Presbyterian, The Citadel, Virginia, Virginia Military, West Virginia, American (Moves from East to make it 20)
North- (20 Teams) #2 Iowa, #7 Arizona State, #10 NC State, #15 Minnesota, Bloomsburg, Buffalo, Central Michigan, Clarion, Cleveland State, Edinboro, Illinois, Indiana, Lock Haven, Michigan, Michigan State, Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Purdue, SIU-Edwardsville, Kent State (Moves from south to make it 20)
West- (19 Teams) #3 Cornell, #6 Michigan, #11 Iowa State, #14 South Dakota State, Air Force, Cal Baptist, Cal Poly, CSU-Bakersfield, Little Rock, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Stanford, Traleton State, Utah Valley, Wyoming, Northern Iowa (Moves here to make it 19)

B) A Dual meet Nationals in Feb. Where the conference champions and some Wild cards meet. This is over two weeks. 
Conference Champions (EIWA, IVY, ACC, Big XII North, Big XII South, SOCON, Big 10 North, Big 10 South, MAC) Host two other teams of conference 2nd placers and Wild Cards. and each team does two dual meets. and the top two come out and go to National Duals. Then at duals they wrestle to 16th (4 matches per team over a 2 or 3 day period). Then you divide the teams up. Using This years nationals as national dual placing:
East: #1 Penn State, # 8 Ohio State, #9 Nebraska, #16 Stanford
South: #2 Cornell, #7 Virginia Tech, #10 Oklahoma State, #15 Lehigh
North: #3 Michigan, #6 Arizona State, #11 Missouri, Northern Iowa
West: #4 Iowa State, #5 Iowa, #12 NC State, #13 South Dakota State

There is more to model B. As to Conference Dual January. Also all your tournaments and non conference duals are done in Nov/Dec. 

West is still a bit tougher, But not 6 of the top 16 team tougher.

So then the top 8 qualify for Nationals (True 8th Place matches if needed)
Then whomever places 9th has a 4 man bracket to see who is the 33rd man in the bracket the Wednesday before nationals. Whomever wins gets the 33rd seed (well sort of) and then you have your 1st, 2nd, 3rd alternates.
Now as far as seeding. There is no more seeding per say.
You only seed the Regional Champions. For instance if we go by this year at 125 (and the champions are done by the highest seed at nationals just to take opinions out of the mix and using model A)
East: Brendan Davis, Penn State, North: Drake Ayala, Iowa, South: Noah Surtin, Missouri (He would have been the highest seeded wrestler from the Regional), West: Jore Volk, Wyoming.
So the seeding would have gone
1. Ayala 2. Davis, 3. Surtin, 4. Volk 
Remember Ayala Beat Davis in the dual and Surtin beat Volk in the dual.
The 33rd entry would have probably been say Diego Sotelo of Harvard and he would have wrestled Tanner Jordan to then take on Ayala.
one side of the bracket would have had Ayala, Volk, Richie Figs, Unger, Stanich, Barnett, Poulin
The other Side would have: Surtin, Davis, Smith, Barnett, Ramos, Camacho, Spratley, Camacho, Provo
So say Ayala and Figs are in the same regional and Ayala beats Figs in the finals they are on the opposite side of the bracket. They have no chance of meeting till the finals.

 

I think this is more fair. Opinions?

We discussed this a couple years ago and another idea was 6 Regionals which added a mid-west and a South East.  It cut the Regional down to a more manageable 14-15 teams. 

Edited April 1 by Idaho

[ionel]

The w to the b10, so now what?

Can the potato and the phillips get along?

Edited April 2 by ionel