Starocci vs Lewis all-star match (full video)

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

 

[jajensen09]

So if I heard correctly. None of these all star matches count towards anyone's record??

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

  On 12/9/2022 at 2:49 PM, jajensen09 said:

So if I heard correctly. None of these all star matches count towards anyone's record??

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Right, it has no effect on any seeding or rankings or records.

[jajensen09]

  On 12/9/2022 at 3:08 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Right, it has no effect on any seeding or rankings or records.

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That's wild. I don't see this lasting in the future. Lewis got a free look at Carter 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

  On 12/9/2022 at 3:09 PM, jajensen09 said:

That's wild. I don't see this lasting in the future. Lewis got a free look at Carter 

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They both wrestled each other as the last match of last season.  It was basically the same outcome, so I don't think either of them got any new information.

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 12/9/2022 at 2:49 PM, jajensen09 said:

So if I heard correctly. None of these all star matches count towards anyone's record??

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Officially, no. But all Penn State fans take an oath to the belief that in 2018 Mark Hall lost the #1 seed to Zahid Valencia based on the all-star match.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 12/9/2022 at 3:09 PM, jajensen09 said:

That's wild. I don't see this lasting in the future. Lewis got a free look at Carter 

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It has been the case for decades.

[ionel]

  On 12/9/2022 at 3:12 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Officially, no. But all Penn State fans take an oath to the belief that in 2018 Mark Hall lost the #1 seed to Zahid Valencia based on the all-star match.

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Is it true the oath also required signing a contact that said fans would solicit at least 5 themat forum buddies to also complain for the next 5 years about how Hall got cheated in seeding meeting and thus denied his easy path to the final?  My understanding that Bob decided to make all continue to honor the contract on the new IM forum,  just one more year of this nonsense. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 12/9/2022 at 4:03 PM, ionel said:

Is it true the oath also required signing a contact that said fans would solicit at least 5 themat forum buddies to also complain for the next 5 years about how Hall got cheated in seeding meeting and thus denied his easy path to the final?  My understanding that Bob decided to make all continue to honor the contract on the new IM forum,  just one more year of this nonsense. 

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There was an NDA involved. I have already said too much.

[nhs67]

  On 12/9/2022 at 4:49 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

There was an NDA involved. I have already said too much.

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Well someone's mum is a heaux...

[mspart]

By the way, who won the championship that year?  I'm guessing Hall was seeded fairly correctly.

mspart

[nhs67]

  On 12/9/2022 at 6:27 PM, mspart said:

By the way, who won the championship that year?  I'm guessing Hall was seeded fairly correctly.

mspart

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Seeds are not meant to be predictions or projections - same as rankings.

[mspart]

  On 12/9/2022 at 6:32 PM, nhs67 said:

Seeds are not meant to be predictions or projections - same as rankings.

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Then why seed?

mspart

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

  On 12/9/2022 at 6:32 PM, nhs67 said:

Seeds are not meant to be predictions or projections - same as rankings.

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Actually, the point of seeding is to ensure that what are predicted to be the best wrestlers reach the final 4 of the tournament.  So they are predictions or projections in that regard. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Put another way, if you don't seed the wrestlers based on who you think the best wrestlers are...you could have #1 and #2 wrestle each other in the first round and #3 and #4 wrestle each other the first round and you are guaranteed that 1/2 of the top 4 are eliminated immediately.

[nhs67]

I mean... you're wrong, but okay.

[nhs67]

  On 12/9/2022 at 6:38 PM, mspart said:

Then why seed?

mspart

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Seeding is to ensure that the wrestlers who have had better results, which often also means more results, are in order of expected finish.  That doesn't mean predict the finish, it means that their results are graded to be better.

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 12/9/2022 at 6:48 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Put another way, if you don't seed the wrestlers based on who you think the best wrestlers are...you could have #1 and #2 wrestle each other in the first round and #3 and #4 wrestle each other the first round and you are guaranteed that 1/2 of the top 4 are eliminated immediately.

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Seeds are earned rather than rewarded. In that way they are more ranking than prediction. But rankings contain a degree of subjectivity (whether the Flo rankers want to admit it or not), so it can be hard to differentiate between a ranking and a prediction sometimes. An example, is quality wins. If two undefeated wrestlers do not wrestle the exact same schedule then some subjectivity comes into play to decide who is more deserving of the higher seed based on the quality of their wins. At the margin this is purely subjective and there is an element of a positive feedback loop. If wrestler A beats the #10 ranked wrestler and wrestler B beats the #11 ranked wrestler it is tempting to say wrestler A had a higher quality win, but who is to say that the original ranks were 100% accurate?

[Wrestleknownothing]

Do we see a different strategy from Mekhi Lewis come NCAA's? At the last NCAA and in this match at the start of the 2nd period once Starocci gets to his feet Lewis gives up on the ride. At NCAA he started out looking to ride, but gave up pretty quickly, getting 10 or 11 seconds of RT at the start of the second and in this match he seems even less committed to the ride. 

[creek chub]

  On 12/9/2022 at 8:01 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Do we see a different strategy from Mekhi Lewis come NCAA's? At the last NCAA and in this match at the start of the 2nd period once Starocci gets to his feet Lewis gives up on the ride. At NCAA he started out looking to ride, but gave up pretty quickly, getting 10 or 11 seconds of RT at the start of the second and in this match he seems even less committed to the ride. 

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After watching mehki’s match tonight and his loss the labs, it looks like he’s attempting to be more offensive vs reattacks. He struggled to finish on labs but did better tonight vs mocco. He had two other shots that were almost TDs tonight. He’ll need to polish his finishes up to beat Carter. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

  On 12/9/2022 at 8:01 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Do we see a different strategy from Mekhi Lewis come NCAA's? At the last NCAA and in this match at the start of the 2nd period once Starocci gets to his feet Lewis gives up on the ride. At NCAA he started out looking to ride, but gave up pretty quickly, getting 10 or 11 seconds of RT at the start of the second and in this match he seems even less committed to the ride. 

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Or could it be that Mekhi is just not a great rider?  He has awesome defense and reattacks, but I don't think he's really known for a being a hammer on top.

[creek chub]

  On 12/12/2022 at 3:20 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Or could it be that Mekhi is just not a great rider?  He has awesome defense and reattacks, but I don't think he's really known for a being a hammer on top.

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Cenzo might think he’s a hammer since mehki cradled him in the natty finals

[Pinnacle]

  On 12/12/2022 at 4:34 PM, creek chub said:

Cenzo might think he’s a hammer since mehki cradled him in the natty finals

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Cenzo actually said he tried to bait Mehki into trying that cradle but underestimated Mehki's strength.

[creek chub]

  On 12/12/2022 at 5:33 PM, Pinnacle said:

Cenzo actually said he tried to bait Mehki into trying that cradle but underestimated Mehki's strength.

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Epic miscalculation if true