Aspects of freestyle that are realistic to implement

[1032004]

I still prefer folkstyle, but I’ll admit there are some things freestyle does better.  I know the most common requests to bring from free to folk are probably, in no particular order: 1) criteria 2) push out point, and 3) shot clock.

I’m not necessarily opposed to those, particularly 1 & 2, but those would be significant changes.   

But what about some things that would be relatively easy to implement? Such as 

1) Losing a point for a lost challenge.  Would really help lung bricks

2) Home and away singlets - we need to get rid of ankle bands

3) No headgear required.  Cauliflower ear is gross, but I don’t think wearing headgear during matches really prevents it, and often gets in the way or caused delays. Headgear should be required for practice, but not matches

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I still prefer folkstyle, but I’ll admit there are some things freestyle does better.  I know the most common requests to bring from free to folk are probably, in no particular order: 1) criteria 2) push out point, and 3) shot clock.

I’m not necessarily opposed to those, particularly 1 & 2, but those would be significant changes.   

But what about some things that would be relatively easy to implement? Such as 

1) Losing a point for a lost challenge.  Would really help lung bricks

2) Home and away singlets - we need to get rid of ankle bands

3) No headgear required.  Cauliflower ear is gross, but I don’t think wearing headgear during matches really prevents it, and often gets in the way or caused delays. Headgear should be required for practice, but not matches

I agree. Push out point is great. No more backing to the edge to hedge your bets. I love criteria as someone is always losing and incentivized to attack, but I am also ok with folkstyle, war of attrition, OT. But the point lost for a lost challenge is the best to me, but only in a setting where the review is done independently. No more lungers.

[MPhillips]

I'm all for the criteria win. That would be my number one. I'm also okay with the push out, but folks will lose their fricking minds. I'm against the lost challenge point for a myriad of reasons but the number one reason is, Tom Ryan loses challenges like baby teeth. 

[ionel]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

 1) criteria 2) push out point, and 3) shot clock.

1 maybe/yes

2 no

3 no

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

 

1) Losing a point for a lost challenge.  Would really help lung bricks

2) Home and away singlets - we need to get rid of ankle bands

3) No headgear required.  Cauliflower ear is gross, but I don’t think wearing headgear during matches really prevents it, and often gets in the way or caused delays. Headgear should be required for practice, but not matches

1 yes

2 no - the bands are for the refs, universities have colors we gonna make everyone were red or green singlets

3 sure

[1032004]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

1 maybe/yes

2 no

3 no

1 yes

2 no - the bands are for the refs, universities have colors we gonna make everyone were red or green singlets

3 sure

Doesn’t have to be red/green, can be white for home or something

[ionel]

Just now, 1032004 said:

Doesn’t have to be red/green, can be white for home or something

So ref needs a white band and something else say purple, which wrist does white band go with, what if pink & purple vs orange & black, blue & pink?  See the problem?

[1032004]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

So ref needs a white band and something else say purple, which wrist does white band go with, what if pink & purple vs orange & black, blue & pink?  See the problem?

No, white = home = green.

[peanut]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

I still prefer folkstyle, but I’ll admit there are some things freestyle does better.  I know the most common requests to bring from free to folk are probably, in no particular order: 1) criteria 2) push out point, and 3) shot clock.

I’m not necessarily opposed to those, particularly 1 & 2, but those would be significant changes.   

But what about some things that would be relatively easy to implement? Such as 

1) Losing a point for a lost challenge.  Would really help lung bricks

2) Home and away singlets - we need to get rid of ankle bands

3) No headgear required.  Cauliflower ear is gross, but I don’t think wearing headgear during matches really prevents it, and often gets in the way or caused delays. Headgear should be required for practice, but not matches

Step outs make so much sense.

Criteria also makes a ton of sense. Someone will always be attacking towards the end of a close match.

The shot clock is iffy in situations when neither guy does much. 

Black singlets for home would make sense. The NBA used to have white home uniforms, but I don’t think white is an ideal color for singlets. Also, wrestlers should have the option of wearing shorts and a shirt.

Headgear is good because it helps keep students athletes from looking crazy on campus. Wrestling doesn’t need more a stigma. 

[Tigerfan]

Criteria could be cool, but folk style OT seems pretty dialed in at this point. Not sure there’s enough reason for this change. 
 

Push out is technically clear cut, but would result in a ton of reviews. Leaning no on this one. 
 

No headgear in matches. Totally agree on this one. Medical exemption for active ear injuries, of course. Headgear is pulled, pushed, twisted, tweaked, etc. far too often. These are adults who can make their own decisions regarding practice, but they just get in the way during matches. 
 

Are ankle bands really an issue? Seems like they rarely cause any problems. No change. 

[forkemaz]

Criteria is garbage and it's embarrassing people are endorsing it. A match is 7 minutes. We don't have time for a definitive answer? 

If Criteria is so great why don't they use it in the NFL MLB, NHL, NBA hmm? Cause it's garbage that's why. Just stop guys I mean really.

 

Same for the other other two but I'm not going to write an essay.

Edited March 4 by forkemaz

[Wrestleknownothing]

33 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

Criteria is garbage and it's embarrassing people are endorsing it. A match is 7 minutes. We don't have time for a definitive answer? 

If Criteria is so great why don't they use it in the NFL MLB, NHL, NBA hmm? Cause it's garbage that's why. Just stop guys I mean really.

 

Same for the other other two but I'm not going to write an essay.

If wrestling is so great why doesn't the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA have seven minute games?

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

If wrestling is so great why doesn't the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA have seven minute games?

[1032004]

8 hours ago, forkemaz said:

Criteria is garbage and it's embarrassing people are endorsing it. A match is 7 minutes. We don't have time for a definitive answer? 

If Criteria is so great why don't they use it in the NFL MLB, NHL, NBA hmm? Cause it's garbage that's why. Just stop guys I mean really.

 

Same for the other other two but I'm not going to write an essay.

The pro leagues may not have criteria, but they have been experimenting with changes to deciding ties.

As I alluded to in the OP, I could kinda take it or leave it.  The biggest concern for me is confusion for fans (particularly the ones attending live). But I think it probably would make the end of matches more exciting.

Edited March 4 by 1032004

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I like the pushout in theory.

However, mat wrestling really screws this up.  This is something that doesn't really exist in freestyle, but is a big part of folk.

An escape next to the edge, followed by a pushout? Kinda a weird situation that can be gamed by the top man in order to release the bottom guy for net zero points.

[JVStateChamp]

16 hours ago, peanut said:

Step outs make so much sense.

Criteria also makes a ton of sense. Someone will always be attacking towards the end of a close match.

The shot clock is iffy in situations when neither guy does much. 

Black singlets for home would make sense. The NBA used to have white home uniforms, but I don’t think white is an ideal color for singlets. Also, wrestlers should have the option of wearing shorts and a shirt.

Headgear is good because it helps keep students athletes from looking crazy on campus. Wrestling doesn’t need more a stigma. 

I do not mind the idea of home and away singlets, I think this could be easily accomplished where there are specific base colors that count towards home and others that are away. Some teams have tried to implement shorts and a shirt for competitions like ASU or Mizzu but it just has not seemed to get any traction. I personally think the singlet is better but I would be all for shorts and a shirt if it correlated to a spike in participation. 

[forkemaz]

8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

If wrestling is so great why doesn't the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA have seven minute games?

A wrestling duel which is the team version of our sport goes for an hour sometimes two which is about par for the team sports so there is that as. any other cute arguments to skirt the fact that people find neither ties nor criteria satisfying outside of the freestyle niche?

[forkemaz]

28 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I like the pushout in theory.

However, mat wrestling really screws this up.  This is something that doesn't really exist in freestyle, but is a big part of folk.

An escape next to the edge, followed by a pushout? Kinda a weird situation that can be gamed by the top man in order to release the bottom guy for net zero points.

The pushout is a mess in freestyle already. Dudes not finishing shots because a push out is easier, the drop down fiasco.

Everything you mentioned plus the amount of TDs scored because of current edge rules.

You want less take downs in folkstyle? Add the push out. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

45 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

A wrestling duel which is the team version of our sport goes for an hour sometimes two which is about par for the team sports so there is that as. any other cute arguments to skirt the fact that people find neither ties nor criteria satisfying outside of the freestyle niche?

No, I think I have done enough to illustrate the silliness of your original comparison.

[lu_alum]

I'd like to see the challenge rules blended together:

• International: lose a point on a lost challenge.
• International: put the review on the big screen, with interpretation announced by the reviewer.
• NCAA: cap the number of challenges per event.

[forkemaz]

22 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

No, I think I have done enough to illustrate the silliness of your original comparison.

I just showed you the time length is the same. But smart not to engage the fact of how unsatisfying criteria is too literally everyone in the world besides freestyle fans who have the worst taste in sports rules among any fan base.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

21 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

I just showed you the time length is the same. But smart not to engage the fact of how unsatisfying criteria is too literally everyone in the world besides freestyle fans who have the worst taste in sports rules among any fan base.

Worse taste in rules: Freestyle fans or greco fans?

[1032004]

47 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

I just showed you the time length is the same. But smart not to engage the fact of how unsatisfying criteria is too literally everyone in the world besides freestyle fans who have the worst taste in sports rules among any fan base.

The argument isn’t that criteria is “satisfying.”  It’s that it would make the last 30 seconds-1 minute of matches more exciting because someone would always be losing so guys won’t just hang around and wait for overtime.  It’s a scenario pretty specific to wrestling, I can’t really think of a comparison to another sport.

Are you “satisfied” when Will Lewan wins due to 1 second of RT in double OT?   Again, I’m not saying folkstyle should definitely put in criteria.  But it’s not a terrible idea.  It would also save time particularly in tournaments.  Speaking of which, saving time is another reason to get rid of anklebands.   10 seconds a match can add up over a 3 day tournament.

[NM1965]

I think I'd like to see something done about excessive riding. I love mat work in wrestling, but the boys this year sure seem to be riding a lot and not working for points. If a guy gets a takedown or reversal I think he should be given 30 seconds to either score a NF or they go back to neutral. If a guy gets a NF then the clock resets and he has another 30 seconds to work. Sounds reasonable, yes?

[KennyEBHS]

Let's get used to the 3-point takedown before we make any more global changes to folk style.

[alex1fly]

Ankle bands - Leave the ankle bands alone. That's far from a problem. Let teams wear the singlets they want to wear. Have extra ankle bands at tournaments so wrestlers can put them on before their match.

Push out point - good point about letting the bottom man go on the edge and negating the escape point. Make it only applicable when in neutral for at least like 3 seconds to give bottom man opportunities to circle.

Losing a point for a lost challenge - okay with this if a 3rd party reviews the calls. I'd rather see a time limit on footage review first.

Shot clock - I like the idea but it's so subjective. We need refs to have less influence over matches IMO not more. Put both wrestlers on the shot clock and then give double stall calls if nobody scores.

Criteria - again its more ref influence over matches which I'm not a fan of.

Headgear - let's require helmets instead. lol