World cup Wrestling

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

We are spoiled.  Even when we win it all at the absolute highest level we whing about what could have been had our better crop showed up.

I even said as much woth Suriano VS Richards.  Richards won, so I am grateful.

At least you were talking about two guys that were both actually on the team and are actively wrestling freestyle, not some "what if?' make believe caused by an obsession with a town in central PA.

[Fadzaev2]

 

I thought about him losing his tongue as well.

[SocraTease]

Seth Gross seems to be the new "Funky for Freestyle" guy.  Like his predecessors, Ben Askren, Wade Schalles and (way back) Rick Sanders, he is totally unorthodox and very unpredictable.   

He looks like an easy pushover, a kind of wispy reed or JV wrestler about to get shredded, but his style confounds many opponents.    

Even his red shoes are rather funky.

I'm curious to see how RBY (and others like Fix) might wrestle him this year in freestyle.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by SocraTease

[BAC]

The Snyder v Ghasempour match reminded me of Snyder's first match against Sadulaev when the latter bumped up.  Like Sadulaev, Ghasempour was able to go with Snyder for the first 3/4ths of the match, but soon learned how difficult it is to be undersized and have to deal with Snyder's blend of endurance, power and pressure.  Sadulaev wilted, and that's what happened to Ghasempour too, and Snyder steamrolled at the end. 

The only real difference is Sadulaev is a bit ahead of Snyder and Ghasempour technique-wise, so he was able to score on Snyder before wilting.  I get the sense Snyder and Ghasempour are on similar levels technique-wise. So while Sadulaev was able to beat Snyder when he bulked up and had improved (but still inferior) conditioning, Snyder will still be favored against Ghasempour even if he bulks up into a full-sized 97kg, as I don't think he has the skill set to overcome Snyder's superior conditioning and pressure.    

[nhs67]

57 KG

Richards?  When we 'have' our guys in, he has never really been in our contenders discussion.  Do we think he is there now, or just that he wrestled out of his mind?  I am leaning towards the latter.  I still think when it comes down to WTT guys like NATO or Gilman or Suriano are going to win fairly comfortably.

Speaking of Suriano - His interview was an interesting watch.  We didn't learn much from his match other than he can win Suriano-type matches in Freestyle (still).

61 KG

Gross is one of those stories that you just... you can't help but hope he does well.  Then when it comes to watching him wrestle you also can't help but worry that he is going to get outgunned.  He just isn't that athletic and some of the guys he faces can expose that.  It didn't happen here, fortunately.  There was still a few seconds in the Iran match before he got on top that had me worried.

65 KG

I think 65 KG is a gauntlet.  I think it is a gauntlet and Johnny D is going to get exposed by long, athletic grapplers here and there - unless he pushes and gets on the board early and often.  I still do think he can beat anybody in the world, but guys that are elite in the athleticism or raw power who hold themselves so positionally sound department will give him headaches.  If he can find a way to score he can beat them.  I just... this Irani kid... he has a wingspan like Kevin Durant man.  I don't know how he wrestles a better match than he did against him - and he still lost.

Also, if they change the grounded rule?  He loses that match via technical superiority.

70 KG

A bit surprised that Berger didn't get the nod against Iran here.  The coaches know what they are doing, obviously, but Berger held the last win, was higher on the ladder, and has looked phenomenal as well.  Berger looked flawless against Mongolia and looks to be right there to contend for a spot on the national team this season.

Pantaleo now?  Nice, right?  Also, just looked... Berger placed higher, but Pantaleo beat him via 3-2 in the QF of the WTT, so I was wrong there.  I think Berger beat him the previous time?  Not sure now:

https://insideourgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Men27sFreestyleWTT28629.pdf

Anyways... where does Pantaleo get ranked now?  He just beat two Top 10 guys.  It wasn't convincing, but it was a result that not many of our other 70 KG guys have even had an opportunity to do.

74 KG

I think Nolf looked great.  The one match that frustrated me to watch was his match.  The kid didn't even try to engage.  He didn't have to, but Nolf kept trying to get in there.  He'll make the adjustments and win that match, probably convincingly, next time.  I thought this was the guy that Dake had to get a last second score to beat 2-2 at Worlds, but it wasn't.

Cenzo didn't look good.  I don't imagine it was the drop to 74 KG, because one of those joke-rumors that were always floating about were that him and Nolf would swap.  It was known that he went 165 because he couldn't beat Retherford or Nolf, so there was that too.  That said, he isn't particularly lean for the weight, even if he has the hips of a 184lber to bring to the match.  Wrestling is more than hips and trips, though, and he needs to show that if he is going to be a factor.

79 KG

JB huh?  The guy he lost to just beat Sidakov a few weeks ago too.  This isn't a bad loss.  He needs to adjust - and he will.  If he intends to stay on the small side of 79 KG, though - which he has indicated, then he might now win this match the next time either.  Luckily styles do make matches, and he might not even see this Irani at worlds.

86 KG

The Hair.  O.M.F.G.

92 KG

Nate Jackson showed up, man.  I am not really a fan of his because of his lack of defense, but when you're rocking an 11/10 on the offense for half the match, that can get it done for you.  I am looking forward to seeing what he can do at the Worlds stage, if he is our rep.  I am still not convinced he will be, though.  I think Hidlay is a nightmare matchup for him and guys like Moore and Macchiavello are going to give him everything he can handle.

97 KG

Captain America sealed it for us.  I was concerned it would be a 1 TD match and it might end up like the Cox-Ghas matches.  I was wrong and Snyder's size was the deciding factor.  He had a larger frame than Snyder, but he was considerably less thick and it wore on him.  I still wonder if he will drop to 86 KG and challenge Yazdani.  I know Karimi already made the drop and lost to Yazdani 7-4.

125 KG

Iran has some weapons at 125 for the next decade+ and it is scary.  Kerkvliet got absolutely slaughtered by Zare the last time the wrestled, and Zare has progressionally leaped a few times since then.  Parris did pin Zare, but I don't think he does that again.  Cassioppi?  The guy that hammered him got hammered by Masoumi.  We have talked about how this could be the golden age for us for heavyweights, and unless Steveson comes back Iran will have at least two heavies that should be favored above our youth guys.

I am curious how Zillmer stacks up against Kerk and Cassioppi.  He lost to Parris in one of his first HWT outings, and I don't see that match going much differently the next time they wrestle.  We have a honeypot of guys at 125 that could all win or lose depending on the matchup and it might cost us when it comes to Worlds, because right now I think only Parris and Kerk have a chance to medal at Worlds.  Kerk could lose to Bradley, though and Parris to Gwiazdowski.  Brackets/seeds will matter.

This said... Zillmer?  Man the testicular fortitude and tank on this guy, right?  For being so undersized on these international heavies, he NEVER BACKS DOWN.  If I am going in to a hostile environment and I am thinking someone might want to sneak one on me, I am taking this guy 10/10 times.  Fckn hell.

86 KG

HAHA... had you there, right?  Valencia looked phenominal for 2.25 matches.  After the first 90 seconds against Karimi it seemed like he just... lost his gas tank a bit.  Karimi is elite.  Anyone saying DT techs that guy?  GTFOH.  You. Know. Nothing.  This said, he is a big 86 KG guy and that wore on Zahid a bit.  I still want Zahid to go to Mexico.  He could be a medal threat for the next decade there.  He might not even make a team here for a couple-few more years.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

 

86 KG

Karimi is elite.  Anyone saying DT techs that guy?  GTFOH.  You. Know. Nothing.  This said, he is a big 86 KG guy and that wore on Zahid a bit.  

How can you honestly say that?  I'm not sure if you knew this, but DT wrestles for the NLWC and wrestled for PSU in college.  He can probably tech just about anyone, maybe even Ditka.

[Le duke]

86 KG
HAHA... had you there, right?  Valencia looked phenominal for 2.25 matches.  After the first 90 seconds against Karimi it seemed like he just... lost his gas tank a bit.  Karimi is elite.  Anyone saying DT techs that guy?  GTFOH.  You. Know. Nothing.  This said, he is a big 86 KG guy and that wore on Zahid a bit.  I still want Zahid to go to Mexico.  He could be a medal threat for the next decade there.  He might not even make a team here for a couple-few more years.

DT techs Zahid, DT beat the tar out of Yazdani, and Yazdani teched Karimi the last time they wrestled. Zahid can’t even get a TD on DT, but beats Karimi 5-3.

Sorry, DT is likely teching Karimi.


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[nhs67]

53 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

How can you honestly say that?  I'm not sure if you knew this, but DT wrestles for the NLWC and wrestled for PSU in college.  He can probably tech just about anyone, maybe even Ditka.

I am not saying he couldn't tech him.  I am saying that predicting it is dumb.  The guy was a runner-up to Cox two years in a row - losing by one point a weight class up, right?

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

DT techs Zahid, DT beat the tar out of Yazdani, and Yazdani teched Karimi the last time they wrestled. Zahid can’t even get a TD on DT, but beats Karimi 5-3.

Sorry, DT is likely teching Karimi.


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Yazdani actually just beat Karimi 7-4 in which he was winning 5-4 and got two late pushouts.

[Le duke]

Yazdani actually just beat Karimi 7-4 in which he was winning 5-4 and got two late pushouts.

Here’s a match that actually mattered. Iranian WTTs, July 2022. 10-0.

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[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Here’s a match that actually mattered. Iranian WTTs, July 2022. 10-0.

 

 

 

 

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You didn't say that.  You said the last time they wrestled, which is 100% incorrect.

[MPhillips]

38 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You said the last time they wrestled

You did. It's in print...

[Mike Parrish]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:02 AM, BAC said:

I don't hear anyone saying the tongue wag was a major infraction, just that it was over the line. And it was.  Not a big deal, but in a dual with a political rival where perceived disrespect can be magnified, athletes need to avoid stuff like that.

Overall I thought the sportsmanship was exceptional on both sides.  There were passionate celebrations, but not inappropriate. Some mildly flared tempers at 70kg and 97kg, but just normal chippiness and all outweighed by how respectful the competitors were to each other at the end of each match.  Not that competitors should feel obliged to hug it out at the end, but almost all matches ended with embrace and demonstrated respect.

Great dual to watch. 

Did someone say tongue?

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

With the soccer WC well underway, I've already grown tired of the "you must respect our culture" bologna. Respect is both voluntary and earned. Nobody "must" respect anything or anyone by order.

In many western countries, fans drink and get rowdy - in Qatar, there is no drinking allowed.
Who's culture needs to respect the other's?

In Iran, people are jailed for protesting - in the US, we are free to be openly defiant when we feel it is necessary.
Who's culture needs to respect the other's?

In the US, we sometimes celebrate like crazy when we win - in other countries, competitors must remain solemn.
Who's culture needs to respect the other's?

We all need to understand that we are all very different. That won't change. Nor should it have to for us to get along. Attempting to impose your cultural norms on me is wasted effort.

You, be you, I'll be me. Stop with the judgmental comments, unless you intend to look like a self-righteous idiot.

[Amir.Sol]

23 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

With the soccer WC well underway, I've already grown tired of the "you must respect our culture" bologna. Respect is both voluntary and earned. Nobody "must" respect anything or anyone by order.

In many western countries, fans drink and get rowdy - in Qatar, there is no drinking allowed.
Who's culture needs to respect the other's?

In Iran, people are jailed for protesting - in the US, we are free to be openly defiant when we feel it is necessary.
Who's culture needs to respect the other's?

In the US, we sometimes celebrate like crazy when we win - in other countries, competitors must remain solemn.
Who's culture needs to respect the other's?

We all need to understand that we are all very different. That won't change. Nor should it have to for us to get along. Attempting to impose your cultural norms on me is wasted effort.

You, be you, I'll be me. Stop with the judgmental comments, unless you intend to look like a self-righteous idiot.

Labeling Iranians getting jailed for protesting as "Iranian culture" does not help prove your point.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

4 minutes ago, Amir.Sol said:

Labeling Iranians getting jailed for protesting as "Iranian culture" does not help prove your point.

On the contrary, I believe it does help prove my point.

History proves Iran has repressed protesters for many years under threat of jail or worse. What is happening right now shows potential that this may change. 

 

[Amir.Sol]

2 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

On the contrary, I believe it does help prove my point.

History proves Iran has repressed protesters for many years under threat of jail or worse. What is happening right now shows potential that this may change. 

 

I'd encourage you to read up a little more on Iranian history then if that's what your belief is. Post 1980 Iran does not define the other near 3000 years of Iranian history. I do agree that Iranians are currently being repressed by an evil regime and I hope for a change but this is nowhere near "Iranian culture*. In fact very little of the regime is Iranian.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I spent a short time in Turkey not long ago. Western Turkey. I felt lucky to find welcoming and hospitable people to spend time with. I learned that historically, their people were mostly nomadic. For many generations they had a hard life but enjoyed music and dancing and taking a drink when they could.

No longer nomadic, Turks in the west still enjoyed music, dancing, and drink. This led to a considerable rift between them and the regime at the time that was brought to power largely by eastern Turkey - which had a significantly different set of values.

So, what is Turkish culture? Depends on who you ask.

[nhs67]

8 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I spent a short time in Turkey not long ago. Western Turkey. I felt lucky to find welcoming and hospitable people to spend time with. I learned that historically, their people were mostly nomadic. For many generations they had a hard life but enjoyed music and dancing and taking a drink when they could.

No longer nomadic, Turks in the west still enjoyed music, dancing, and drink. This led to a considerable rift between them and the regime at the time that was brought to power largely by eastern Turkey - which had a significantly different set of values.

So, what is Turkish culture? Depends on who you ask.

Well the guy you were speaking to is an actual Irani, so his point of view from behind the lines should go further than what you read on CNN or whatever other 'western' news sources you are getting your stereotype(s) from.

Also, Turkey is lovely.  I haven't gone recently since 'rona, but went there some 17 summers in a row?  Beautiful country and beautiful people.

I might also suggest folks check out Florida here in the US as well.  The 'Florida Man' stereotypes floating around aren't how most of us are - just 15-20% of the men, so ~7.5-10% of the actual people?

Not all of West Virginia enjoys sleeping with their sisters.

California is lame.

Canadians actually have the capability to be rude.

Brits do know what seasoning is.

Frenchies don't actually have frog throats.

Not all Russians are tall Caucasians.

Not all orientals are 5'0" tall.

Aborigines don't breed with Dingos or Kangaroos.

The middle east isn't all sand.

Not all Congo soldiers are cannibals.

Ethiopia isn't just starving, malnourished children with no parents.

There is beauty everywhere.  Believing negative stereotypes for everyone will paint the world a very ugly place.

Edited December 14, 2022 by nhs67

[MPhillips]

Asian...

[gimpeltf]

1 hour ago, MPhillips said:

Asian...

Eastern Turkey, yes.

[Mike Parrish]

Kozak takes the dipshits at FRL to the woodshed.

https://www.flowrestling.org/collections/6751175-flowrestling-radio-live/video?playing=10159317

 

Kozak knows his shit.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Mike Parrish

[MPhillips]

1 hour ago, Mike Parrish said:

FRL to the woodshed.

He should have. They couldn't wait to get The World Cup talk out of the way. It was disappointing. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

14 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Well the guy you were speaking to is an actual Irani, so his point of view from behind the lines should go further than what you read on CNN or whatever other 'western' news sources you are getting your stereotype(s) from.

Don't be such a dope. He and I are in agreement. 

His point is that Iranian culture shouldn't be judged by 1980 and forward. His take on 'culture' is that it should reference the 1000's of years of history not the current period being run by an evil regime that I was referencing. That is good discussion - should the "culture" of the regime of the last 40+ years be considered a country's "culture"? Great topic.

You just had a bad take the first time. Not a problem, re-read.

Feel free to chime in on the actual topic we're discussing.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

23 hours ago, Amir.Sol said:

I'd encourage you to read up a little more on Iranian history then if that's what your belief is. Post 1980 Iran does not define the other near 3000 years of Iranian history. I do agree that Iranians are currently being repressed by an evil regime and I hope for a change but this is nowhere near "Iranian culture*. In fact very little of the regime is Iranian.

When I look at 40+ years of evil behavior by a regime, that implies a level of popular support. Otherwise, that regime would be gone by now.

But, yes, you're right. My view didn't take 1000's of years of history into account. I currently live in a country that is 243 years old. Our perspectives on the definition of culture may be quite different.