Is Cox going 97Kg for 2023?

[mspart]

Discuss.  

For me, I have heard this, but don't know for sure.   If he does, who will take the 92Kg spot?  He wrestled head to head with Snyder and lost 5-5 and 7-1.   I think I would go for another world crown and wait until 2024 to give it a go.   No sense losing the chance at going to Worlds next year too.   Arguably, Snyder is top 2 in the world with The Tank being #1.   I just don't see Cox's chances of taking out Snyder as all that high.   Tough being an Olympic Tweener with the world Champ above and below you in weight class.

mspart

[Wrestej]

After worlds last year Cox said the journey to 97kg started the next day.  Guess he wants to be able to fully grow into the weight.  And I agree with the most recent times he and Snyder have wrestled it seems to be an uphill battle for Cox.

[Spladle08]

Hey, I was finally able to log back in, but yeah as @mspartsaid, Snyder basically only loses to Tank (and it's been this way for quiet sometime). 
We all WANT to believe that Cox has some special abilities (myself included), but he loses-to or squeaks by guys we'd all expect Captain America to get out of there in a hurry.  (obviously style plays into that)
The size, the consistency, the results.... I don't think my man JC dethrones him, 92kg world medal does seem more productive, but I get trying to grow into the weight, because size does matter. 

[GeneYus]

I'd think Kollin Moore would be tough to beat at 92kg. He lost to Cox in the finals of '21 US World Team Trials.

[Spladle08]

2 minutes ago, GeneYus said:

I'd think Kollin Moore would be tough to beat at 92kg. He lost to Cox in the finals of '21 US World Team Trials.

Yeah I think he's our best guy overall, not sure he'll medal, I think he will be more like Yainni or Zain  (expectation wise) finals or DNP neither is much of a surprise 

[mspart]

22 minutes ago, Spladle08 said:

Hey, I was finally able to log back in, but yeah as @mspartsaid, Snyder basically only loses to Tank (and it's been this way for quiet sometime). 
We all WANT to believe that Cox has some special abilities (myself included), but he loses-to or squeaks by guys we'd all expect Captain America to get out of there in a hurry.  (obviously style plays into that)
The size, the consistency, the results.... I don't think my man JC dethrones him, 92kg world medal does seem more productive, but I get trying to grow into the weight, because size does matter. 

With this I agree.  Cox has the tools, sometimes underperforms.  Snyder has the tools and hardly ever underperforms.   I can see working a full year on getting to size and all that.  Everyone has their own way of looking at things and he obviously thinks he can be successful at 97Kg so kudos to him for making the move.   I just don't see him being successful at it barring a Snyder injury or lack of focus (which rarely happens). 

mspart

[Le duke]

Wasn’t Cox going through some family issues this year? I know he put out some pretty heart rending pleas for help in trying to get his brother a kidney transplant a while back.

I’m a PSU/NLWC fan, but J’Den Cox is hard to root against when he toes the line against Snyder. Seems like a fantastic human being.


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[Spladle08]

6 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Wasn’t Cox going through some family issues this year? I know he put out some pretty heart rending pleas for help in trying to get his brother a kidney transplant a while back.

I’m a PSU/NLWC fan, but J’Den Cox is hard to root against when he toes the line against Snyder. Seems like a fantastic human being.


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Oh for sure, I'm always going to hope he (Cox) pulls it out, but when speaking of expected outcomes.... gotta give Snyderman the nod. 
Everyone has something, an injury, a family death, a relationship gone sour, but since 2015 or so.... Snyderman hasn't let any of them trip him up. 
Captain Consistency 

[Le duke]

Oh for sure, I'm always going to hope he (Cox) pulls it out, but when speaking of expected outcomes.... gotta give Snyderman the nod. 
Everyone has something, an injury, a family death, a relationship gone sour, but since 2015 or so.... Snyderman hasn't let any of them trip him up. 
Captain Consistency 

Can’t disagree with that.

Just pointing out that Cox is human and has had some things that might make 100% focus more difficult for him than others.


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[bnwtwg]

5 hours ago, Wrestej said:

After worlds last year Cox said the journey to 97kg started the next day.

I hope he takes going up a weight class serious this time and skips the breakfast buffet. 

 

And no, this joke will never get old because he was a 2x world champ and 4x medalist that missed weight and was going up eleven pounds.

[mspart]

I have no ill will for Cox.   But he is perfectly positioned at 92Kg.   Why the Oly's only allow 6 weights is incomprehensible and a crime.   Yes I know they want to limit the medals and the time spent on the mat, those are not good reasons in my opinion.   Thankfully, UWW added the other 4 weights back for off Oly year competition.  

He has medalled every time he has made it to the big dance and that is saying something.   I  just do not give him much chance in beating Snyder much less medalling at 97Kg.  Too many horses there.   But who knows, maybe he will be the new Horse.   But I honestly don't think so. 

mspart

[nhs67]

92 KG is going to be a honeypot of really good guys who might medal or might be one and done at worlds - draw dependant, and none will win Gold.

Macchiavello, Moore, Jackson, Hidlay, Downey, Dean, Brooks, Martin, etc.

[bnwtwg]

9 hours ago, nhs67 said:

92 KG is going to be a honeypot of really good guys who might medal or might be one and done at worlds - draw dependant, and none will win Gold.

Macchiavello, Moore, Jackson, Hidlay, Downey, Dean, Brooks, Martin, etc.

[nhs67]

9 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Was it the Hidlay inclusion or was it the Frog Prince inclusion?

[MPhillips]

18 hours ago, nhs67 said:

92 KG is going to be a honeypot of really good guys who might medal or might be one and done at worlds - draw dependant, and none will win Gold.

Macchiavello Moore, Jackson, Hidlay, Downey, Dean, Brooks, Martin, etc.

Kollin is my pick. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by MPhillips

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Kollin is my pick. 

I think Moore would be the favorite and with a good draw he could be in a medal match, or with the wrong draw he could bbq. But I thought he was going 97 permanently?

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Was it the Hidlay inclusion or was it the Frog Prince inclusion?

I couldn't decide whether it was the goofy wet chicken nugget or Mymar

[MPhillips]

23 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

But I thought he was going 97 permanently?

He's never said any different. I just want him at 92.  He's going to be behind Snyder for a long time if not.

[bnwtwg]

7 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

He's never said any different. I just want him at 92.  He's going to be behind Snyder for a long time if not.

He may not even be a national team member because he's not getting past Cox anytime soon and Cox is certainly far away from Snyder.

ETA: And that sucks because I'm a huge Moore fan. Consistently underrated and behind all-timers in Nickal, Cox, and Snyder. That's a rough career break.

Edited December 9, 2022 by bnwtwg

[MPhillips]

Just now, bnwtwg said:

He may not even be a national team member because he's not getting past Cox anytime soon and Cox is certainly far away from Snyder.

I believe Snyder is going to be around much longer than Cox. But I hear ya.

[nhs67]

My personal opinion opinion and theorynis that Moore went 97 KG rather than 92 KG because he thought his chances against Snyder we better than Cox - perhaps due to familiarity?  I actually agree.  Cox us a worse matchup for him than Snyder.

I believe Zillmer has eluded to this being a reason to not cut to 97 KG, as he cannot make 92 KG anymore.  Meaning he thought stylistically that he matched up better with the field (sans Steveson) than he did with Snyder.

At the end of the day both Cox and Snyder are True Alphas.  Nobody else we have that typically go 92 KG or 97 KG are.  That means other guys who think they are will abandon 86 KG and 97 KG - in which both weight classes have at least one True Alpha, and give it a proper go at 92 KG.

The reward of a BYE to the semifinals off the Olympic weight of your choosing, providing you medal at 2023 Worlds, is too great a benefit to pass up.

Also, this bracket is going to be insane to seed and very draw dependant for who we see in the finals.  Especially if Brooks, Hidlay, and Moore are all in it.  I could see a Moore > Brooks > Hidlay > Moore situation playing out (I know Moore beat Hidlay, but I wasn't comfortable at all that entire match).

Add in IF Valencia decides he wants that bye?  He is right there, very close to that True Alpha status and I don't think anyone aside for JB, Taylor, Cox, or Snyder are beating him domestically in that 86-97 KG range.  Hidlay matches up well, but it's hard to put a whole match together against Valencia and hd has yet to do that.

[mspart]

You have a good point about the bye situation for the OTTs. 

mspart

[bnwtwg]

10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

My personal opinion opinion and theorynis that Moore went 97 KG rather than 92 KG because he thought his chances against Snyder we better than Cox - perhaps due to familiarity?  I actually agree.  Cox us a worse matchup for him than Snyder

I think it is because he can’t make 92 and be effective. He got big brothered at OTT even though he wrestled two nearly perfect matches, but thems the breaks.

If he has committed to going down and Zahid is crazy enough to go up I am here for it. I don’t think it will happen but if it does then I think Zahid beats Jackson and Moore lays the smack down.

[MPhillips]

24 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Moore lays the smack down.

I like that...

[Eagle26]

Olympic weights WTT should be a week or more before the other weights. Then allow the losers from Olympic weights to challenge at the other weights. That would give us our best team and we’d get to see some interesting matchups. I like Zahid at 92 but don’t think he’s going to give up on his Olympic dream at 86.