Carlton Haselrig

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, Jim L said:

LOL. I went down the same rabbit hole and spent too much time looking at Wikipedia. I did notice that the lack of results theUS had for about 20 years and  the recent outstanding results,. Bodes well for the future

Part of the problem was that in many of those years, we didn't even bother sending a team.  Askren talks about winning an age-group team trials and then USA didn't even send the team.

[Sheerstress]

22 hours ago, blueandgold said:

He’s the only six-time NCAA champion in college wrestling history and yet I hardly hear his name in discussion for best heavyweights or wrestlers overall. I’m also curious to know, is his success the reason for the college division (D2 & D3) being excluded from future NCAA Division I tournaments?

I don't recall him in particular being the reason for the college division being excluded from the Div. I tournament.  

Personally, I liked seeing the D2 and 3 guys at the big dance, simply because it showed that whoever won it was truly the best NCAA wrester in the country.  The people who didn't like it were probably the Div I coaches.  Specifically, they didn't like it when guys like Haselrig, who were the best in their weight, but came from schools that had no chance of winning the team title, might knock one of their athletes into the consolation bracket or even out of the tournament, and significantly affect the team placings.  

As for his place among the great heavies, I thought he was very comparable to Baumgartner, who was about 6 years older than him.  He had the same profile of a solid heavyweight who had amazing strength (someone once described it was like trying to take down tree trunks when getting to his legs), speed and overall athleticism.  He won his first Div. I title as a sophomore in 1987 when he wasn't favored (Tom Erikson was the top seed but got upset by Dean Hall in the semis), and then went unbeaten for the rest of his career (only non-win was a draw to Joel Greenlee).  He was a great competitor, but never had any truly epic collegiate matches.  I believe he did enter the US Open at least once before deciding to go the NFL route where he was All Pro for years despite never having played college ball. 

So he should definitely be considered among the best collegiate heavyweight wrestlers of all time.  I think he probably doesn't get quite as much attention as some others these days because no international career, more focus on football, and the substance abuse issues in the years following.

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

26 minutes ago, Sheerstress said:

I don't recall him in particular being the reason for the college division being excluded from the Div. I tournament.  

As a D2 wrestler who wrestled against UPJ during Haselrig's era, I never heard a thing about him being the reason the rule was changed.  I even had a training partner who was one of the last D2 guys to qualify.

I could 100% be wrong, but I generally feel as if this claim is somewhat revisionist history.

[SocraTease]

A possible 5-timer this year?   Carlton Haselrig says "Pfffff ... I had to use a second hand to count my titles".

"Competing for Pitt-Johnstown in the late 1980s, Haselrig won an unprecedented six NCAA heavyweight wrestling titles. How? Through a quirk in the NCAA rules at the time.

 

When Haselrig competed, wrestlers in Division II also could compete in the NCAA Division I championships. Haselrig wrestled for Division II Pitt-Johnstown, where he compiled a career record of 143-2-1. Haselrig was particularly successful in March. From 1987-89, Haselrig won three NCAA Division II championships at heavyweight. Two weeks after winning those titles, Haselrig went to the NCAA Division I championships, where he also won three heavyweight titles.

Haselrig sent an NCAA record by winning 122 consecutive bouts at Pitt-Johnston, according to his National Wrestling Hall of Fame biography. He was particularly dominant at the national tournaments. Haselrig went 15-0 at the NCAA Division I championships.

Until 1990, national champions in Divisions II and III earned bids to the NCAA Division I championships, according to the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. After Haselrig won three Division I titles, the NCAA rescinded those bids, as Division I coaches suggested they provided lower-division coaches with a recruiting advantage. The decision became known as the "Haselrig Rule." As a result, wrestlers no longer can compete in multiple NCAA wrestling championships, meaning Haselrig's record is unlikely to be broken. Even Starocci's potential five titles would go down as an outlier.

Haselrig also was well known for what he did after college. In 1990, the Pittsburgh Steelers selected Haselrig in the 12th round of the NFL Draft. Haselrig played five NFL seasons, four with the Steelers, and was a Pro Bowl offensive lineman in 1992. Haselrig died in 2020 at age 54.

"At the time, I definitely didn't understand the magnitude of it," Haselrig told the NCAA for a 2018 story. "It was no easy task to win even just one, but it makes me happy and proud to look back at what I accomplished."

Penn State's Starocci begins his quest for a fifth national title Thursday at the 2025 NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships at Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia. He is the No. 1 seed in the 184-pound weight class, bringing a 21-0 record to his fifth NCAA championships."

https://www.si.com/college/pennstate/wrestling/penn-state-carter-starocci-chases-ncaa-wrestling-history-one-record-elusive

 

[Wildcat92]

On 1/23/2024 at 10:47 AM, Sheerstress said:

I don't recall him in particular being the reason for the college division being excluded from the Div. I tournament.  

Personally, I liked seeing the D2 and 3 guys at the big dance, simply because it showed that whoever won it was truly the best NCAA wrester in the country.  The people who didn't like it were probably the Div I coaches.  Specifically, they didn't like it when guys like Haselrig, who were the best in their weight, but came from schools that had no chance of winning the team title, might knock one of their athletes into the consolation bracket or even out of the tournament, and significantly affect the team placings.  

As for his place among the great heavies, I thought he was very comparable to Baumgartner, who was about 6 years older than him.  He had the same profile of a solid heavyweight who had amazing strength (someone once described it was like trying to take down tree trunks when getting to his legs), speed and overall athleticism.  He won his first Div. I title as a sophomore in 1987 when he wasn't favored (Tom Erikson was the top seed but got upset by Dean Hall in the semis), and then went unbeaten for the rest of his career (only non-win was a draw to Joel Greenlee).  He was a great competitor, but never had any truly epic collegiate matches.  I believe he did enter the US Open at least once before deciding to go the NFL route where he was All Pro for years despite never having played college ball. 

So he should definitely be considered among the best collegiate heavyweight wrestlers of all time.  I think he probably doesn't get quite as much attention as some others these days because no international career, more focus on football, and the substance abuse issues in the years following.

 

He was never an all pro.  He went to the ProBowl once, which is not the same as all pro.  His wikipedia also said he had CTE

[Jim L]

If Carter Starocci ends up with credit for 5 titles without an asterisk, then Haselrig should get credit for 6 without an asterisk.

In reality, they both should have asterisks, as there were special circumstances to both of these achievements

 

[fishbane]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:50 PM, lu_alum said:

EDIT: I originally quoted Haselrig's wiki page without checking.  Not sure if the following is accurate, "Haselrig was the 1985 Junior Greco-Roman World Champion, and the 1986 Junior Freestyle World Champion, while competing for the United States in the heavyweight division."

Perhaps Haselrig won the espior or university national title at Greco Roman in 1985 and freestyle in 1986.  These are the only international results I was able to find for Haselrig.  I wonder if he wrestled Karelin in 1985.

 

[PortaJohn]

27 minutes ago, Wildcat92 said:

He was never an all pro.  He went to the ProBowl once, which is not the same as all pro.  His wikipedia also said he had CTE

He was an All-Pro in '92...kinda

Edited March 17 by PortaJohn

[lu_alum]

12 minutes ago, Jim L said:

If Carter Starocci ends up with credit for 5 titles without an asterisk, then Haselrig should get credit for 6 without an asterisk.

In reality, they both should have asterisks, as there were special circumstances to both of these achievements

 

Starocci may get five.

Haselrig got six.

But Gray Simons is the all-time leader with seven, with six OW awards. https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/30

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 hours ago, lu_alum said:

Starocci may get five.

Haselrig got six.

But Gray Simons is the all-time leader with seven, with six OW awards. https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/30

 

Do you know who won the D2 title in 1986, when Haselrig was third, and whether they wrestled in the D1 tournament?

[lu_alum]

Do you know who won the D2 title in 1986, when Haselrig was third, and whether they wrestled in the D1 tournament?

Dean Hall (Edinboro) beat Mike Hatch (Liberty), 7-3 for the 1986 D2 title.

Hall placed 6th in the 1986 D1 tournament as the #7 seed.

An interesting note: Edinboro made the jump to D1 in 1987 and Hall, Hatch, and Haselrig each qualified for the 1987 D1 tourney. Haselrig beat Hall for the title, 4-2. Hatch did not place.


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[baroud]

Hwt semis (1986) : Hall d. Haselrig 8-6

[lu_alum]

Hwt semis (1986) : Hall d. Haselrig 8-6

143-2-1.
Any idea as to who was the other loss and the tie?


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[Jason Bryant]

Tie was Greenlee at the All-Star. Other loss might have been Hall too … talked to Pecora back in June before he passed and he had it in front of him. I think I wrote it down somewhere.

[JimmyCinnabon]

I met him when I was a kid. He was the special guest of honor at my youth wrestling banquet. Swell guy. 

[Boring]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:56 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

He's no Spencer Lee, that's for sure.

True, he knew more than one move from the top. 

[Ragu]

19 hours ago, lu_alum said:

Dean Hall (Edinboro) beat Mike Hatch (Liberty), 7-3 for the 1986 D2 title.

Hall placed 6th in the 1986 D1 tournament as the #7 seed.

An interesting note: Edinboro made the jump to D1 in 1987 and Hall, Hatch, and Haselrig each qualified for the 1987 D1 tourney. Haselrig beat Hall for the title, 4-2. Hatch did not place.


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How did Hatch qualify 

[baroud]

 

Mike Hatch was a finalist. At the 1987 Div II Championships Haselrig pin. Hatch 4:29.

[Ragu]

1 minute ago, baroud said:

 

Mike Hatch was a finalist. At the 1987 Div II Championships Haselrig pin. Hatch 4:29.

So the finalists of D2 and D3 all went to the D1 tournament and got seeded? That is amazing 

[fishbane]

10 minutes ago, Ragu said:

So the finalists of D2 and D3 all went to the D1 tournament and got seeded? That is amazing 

I think only the D3 champs and D2 finalist.  A seed was not guaranteed.

Edited March 18 by fishbane

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I think only the D3 champs and D2 finalist.  A seed was not guaranteed.

I believe there may have been wildcards too.  My teammate finished 3rd in D2 and qualified.

[Voice of the Quakers]

1987 was a particularly good year for D2 at the D1 tournament. Besides Haselrig, Tim Wright of SIUE (then D2) and Roger Singleton of Grand Valley State both placed at 118 and Darryl Pope and Eric Mittlestead both placed for CSUB (then D2) at 177 and 190, respectively.

I was at Penn when the decision to exclude D2 and D3 from all D1 championships was made in the early 1990s. (I believe T&F and other individual athletes were allowed to "compete up".) I remember a lot of hand-wringing about the sanctity of each division's championships. IMO, the quality of D2 and D3 wrestling has declined as a result as high-level athletes who preferred to attend D2 or D3 schools for whatever reason (campus size, proximity to home, academic program, etc.) have been "forced" to compete D1. 

[baroud]

As early as the mid-1980s (before Haselrig's run) there were Div I coach objections to Div II and III participation. Cited at the time were Div II CS Bakersfield's 6 individual titles in 5 years at the Div I NCAAs:

1980 Joe Gonzalez (118) 1
1980 John Azevedo (125) 1
1981 Dan Cuestas (125) 1
1982 Dan Cuestas (125) 1
1983 Adam Cuestas (118) 1
1984 Jesse Reyes (142) 1

[BAC]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:25 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I think 4th in Olympic Trials prior to playing in the NFL.

Do you have the details on that?  (Who he wrestled, score, etc?)

I saw him wrestle at the NCAA all-star meet when I was a kid, and couldn't believe how athletic a man that big could be. Moved like a lightweight and just destroyed this guy from Northern Iowa.

[NJWrestling]

3 hours ago, Ragu said:

So the finalists of D2 and D3 all went to the D1 tournament and got seeded? That is amazing 

I remember back in the day when Karl Monaco from D3 Montclair went to the finals of the D1 tournament.  He lost to Krieger from Iowa State.  I think this was 1989 or so, and I subsequently learned there were a few D3 finalists:

Kenny Mallory (Montclair) - D1 champion

Tom Martucci (Trenton State) - D1 champion

Karl Monaco (Montclair) - D1 runner-up

Gene Barber (Trenton State) - D1 runner-up

There may be others, but my memory isn’t so hot.  I know a few Montclair wrestlers were D1 AA (Pete Gonzalez comes to mind), and probably others I’ve forgotten.

 

I sort of wish they’d bring the D2 / D3 guys back, it was pretty cool then.