Jan 06 challenge

[jross]

More than 18 months after Jan. 6, 2021, Americans still struggle to understand what happened that day.

Even after this summer’s House Jan. 6 committee revelations, the Capitol Building riot seems to defy easy categorization. It was at once violent and farcical, premeditated and shambolic, clearly associated with a coordinated effort by the outgoing administration to nullify a free and fair election it had just lost yet lacking the muscle of military or police authorities.

So… was it an insurrection? A coup, albeit a failed one? A political protest gone awry? A pathetic show of white power cosplay or the portent of something darker and more dangerous in our nation’s not-distant future?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281

 

 

[jross]

What was the plan?
When the Capitol was overtaken by force, what demands were made?  
How and why did the violent insurrection end?
Why did the plan fail?

Edited January 8 by jross

[Plasmodium]

They accomplished at least one of their goals and it ran it's course.

[WrestlingRasta]

I believe Morgan Freeman holds the key to all those answers. 

[JimmyBT]

I searched the insurrection handbook over and over. I couldn’t find anywhere where it says that right in the middle of taking over a government you should stop, put your feet up on a desk, smile and take a picture.  And then leave peacefully when asked to.  

[JimmyBT]

Isn’t that Lincoln Project guy the one that sexually harassed the interns?? Or was he just one of them that chose to ignore it???  

Edited January 8 by JimmyBT

[mspart]

With the apparent lack of ordnance, small arms, and organization, calling Jan 6 an insurrection is laughable.   Calling it so does not make it so.   If Trump is guilty of insurrection, then why is DOJ not charging him with that?  Oh yeah, no evidence to pull that off.  

When was the last insurrection in a country not self described as a government takeover?   When was the last insurrection acccomplished without weapons and explosives, fire and massive damage?   An insurrection is a bloody revolutionary type action.   Is that what happened on Jan 6?   So insurrectionists leave after a couple of hours after being asked to vacate?  I think it is apparent that an insurrection did not happen.   Riot is a strong word but is probably applicable.  Should people be prosecuted for trespass and the like?  Yes.  

mspart

 

[Plasmodium]

2 hours ago, JimmyBT said:

Isn’t that Lincoln Project guy the one that sexually harassed the interns?? Or was he just one of them that chose to ignore it???  

Jim Jordan has entered the conversation.

[Plasmodium]

19 minutes ago, mspart said:

With the apparent lack of ordnance, small arms, and organization, calling Jan 6 an insurrection is laughable.   Calling it so does not make it so.   If Trump is guilty of insurrection, then why is DOJ not charging him with that?  Oh yeah, no evidence to pull that off.  

When was the last insurrection in a country not self described as a government takeover?   When was the last insurrection acccomplished without weapons and explosives, fire and massive damage?   An insurrection is a bloody revolutionary type action.   Is that what happened on Jan 6?   So insurrectionists leave after a couple of hours after being asked to vacate?  I think it is apparent that an insurrection did not happen.   Riot is a strong word but is probably applicable.  Should people be prosecuted for trespass and the like?  Yes.  

mspart

 

They controlled the crucial function of government for a period of time.  They did so through force and bloodshed.  They stopped because they couldn't do any more.  Insurrection is the proper term.  They are traitors and they earned their jail terms.

[WrestlingRasta]

In order to not fall so heavily on a single term that people can pick apart at their pleasing:

Can we all agree there was a violent attempt to block the certification, which is the final necessary stamp for the transferring of power?

(I’m guessing probably not)

Edited January 8 by WrestlingRasta

[Paul158]

35 minutes ago, mspart said:

With the apparent lack of ordnance, small arms, and organization, calling Jan 6 an insurrection is laughable.   Calling it so does not make it so.   If Trump is guilty of insurrection, then why is DOJ not charging him with that?  Oh yeah, no evidence to pull that off.  

When was the last insurrection in a country not self described as a government takeover?   When was the last insurrection acccomplished without weapons and explosives, fire and massive damage?   An insurrection is a bloody revolutionary type action.   Is that what happened on Jan 6?   So insurrectionists leave after a couple of hours after being asked to vacate?  I think it is apparent that an insurrection did not happen.   Riot is a strong word but is probably applicable.  Should people be prosecuted for trespass and the like?  Yes.  

mspart

 

The people who denied adequate security really should be held responsible, The Chief of the Capital Police requested it weeks in advance yet was turned down by multiple times. A 5th grader would know that you have to have the security in place before the protests. If you have to call in security after the fact you have miserably failed your responsibility. Anyone who  had half a brain would have known to have adequate security because of the political temperature at the time. Had the powers that be had just done their job we would not be having this conversation. The question we would like answered and investigated is why thy refused to protect the Capital.

[Offthemat]

38 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

The people who denied adequate security really should be held responsible, The Chief of the Capital Police requested it weeks in advance yet was turned down by multiple times. A 5th grader would know that you have to have the security in place before the protests. If you have to call in security after the fact you have miserably failed your responsibility. Anyone who  had half a brain would have known to have adequate security because of the political temperature at the time. Had the powers that be had just done their job we would not be having this conversation. The question we would like answered and investigated is why thy refused to protect the Capital.

Better supervision would have prevented law enforcement firing on peaceful protesters. 

[JimmyBT]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Jim Jordan has entered the conversation.

I thought I’d join Rick Wilson. Hi Ricky!

Edited January 8 by JimmyBT

[JimmyBT]

A bunch of idiot anarchists like the tifa boys during the riots n

[WrestlingRasta]

Sometimes on this topic I feel like I’m in that story of the stolen money from the concession stand. People want to get on the person that left the register unlocked, or the door open, etc. Of course they goofed and need accountability, but at what point do you actually blame the act on the people committing the action in the first place, regardless of how hard or easy they had to work for the opportunity to commit their wrong???

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Sometimes on this topic I feel like I’m in that story of the stolen money from the concession stand. People want to get on the person that left the register unlocked, or the door open, etc. Of course they goofed and need accountability, but at what point do you actually blame the act on the people committing the action in the first place, regardless of how hard or easy they had to work for the opportunity to commit their wrong???

Nobody stole the money from the cash register.  They were in the store but left.  

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

They controlled the crucial function of government for a period of time.  They did so through force and bloodshed.  They stopped because they couldn't do any more.  Insurrection is the proper term.  They are traitors and they earned their jail terms

  Why couldn’t they do any more????? 

[mspart]

To WR:

There was a half hearted attempt to stop the count, yes.   Definitely wrong and I can see charges for that and trespassing and nothing more.  

To your analogy, the capitol police (CP) held the door open for the folks going in.   Yes, there is culpability on all sides of this, yet only one side is getting prosecuted.   Shouldn't the CP who let the folks in be fired?  Shouldn't there be an investigation of the one death on the day from a gun fired by a CP?  Shouldn't there be an investigation on why threats were not forwarded appropriately?  Shouldn't there be an investigation on why there were 200 FBI folks among the demonstrators?    There are plenty of question for the other side of this equation that have not even been officially asked yet.   Certainly there is blame on both sides of this.  

mspart

[Plasmodium]

3 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

They controlled the crucial function of government for a period of time.  They did so through force and bloodshed.  They stopped because they couldn't do any more.  Insurrection is the proper term.  They are traitors and they earned their jail terms

  Why couldn’t they do any more????? 

Because the capitol building was completely evacuated and the certification process was successfully halted.   There were no politicians to put the zip ties on. 

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Because the capitol building was completely evacuated and the certification process was successfully halted.   There were no politicians to put the zip ties on. 

The were asked to leave and peacefully did.  According to CNN they were 40 ft from Pence. If they wanted to do something they would have. Smfh 

[JimmyBT]

5 minutes ago, mspart said:

To WR:

There was a half hearted attempt to stop the count, yes.   Definitely wrong and I can see charges for that and trespassing and nothing more.  

To your analogy, the capitol police (CP) held the door open for the folks going in.   Yes, there is culpability on all sides of this, yet only one side is getting prosecuted.   Shouldn't the CP who let the folks in be fired?  Shouldn't there be an investigation of the one death on the day from a gun fired by a CP?  Shouldn't there be an investigation on why threats were not forwarded appropriately?  Shouldn't there be an investigation on why there were 200 FBI folks among the demonstrators?    There are plenty of question for the other side of this equation that have not even been officially asked yet.   Certainly there is blame on both sides of this.  

mspart

That’s the side in control of investigating. Those investigations won’t happen now. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

8 hours ago, jross said:

When the Capitol was overtaken by force, what demands were made?  
 

To hang Mike Pence

[JimmyBT]

Yet they didn’t when he was right there for the taking.  

[mspart]

5 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

They controlled the crucial function of government for a period of time.  They did so through force and bloodshed.  They stopped because they couldn't do any more.  Insurrection is the proper term.  They are traitors and they earned their jail terms

  Why couldn’t they do any more????? 

Why couldn't they do more?  They actually controlled nothing.   They disrupted a count procedure.   The count happened later so they obviously took over nothing.   They did nothing by force or bloodshed.   They stopped because they didn't really know why they were there and when asked to leave they said, ok and left.   Insurrection is not the proper term for this.  You don't have an insurrection when nobody has weapons. 

mspart 

[Plasmodium]

5 minutes ago, mspart said:

Why couldn't they do more?  They actually controlled nothing.   They disrupted a count procedure.   The count happened later so they obviously took over nothing.   They did nothing by force or bloodshed.   They stopped because they didn't really know why they were there and when asked to leave they said, ok and left.   Insurrection is not the proper term for this.  You don't have an insurrection when nobody has weapons. 

mspart 

Did you see this happen or have you only seen Tucker’s documentary?