So, how many GOATS are there?

[Wrestleknownothing]

It is kind of like asking how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. While I am no wise old owl, I will attempt to answer the question my way.

Criteria:

1. The list of GOATs is only ever one long. It actually is not a list, or plural, it is a single entry.
2. Since time flows in one direction someone can be the GOAT before another GOAT, but not after.
3. To be the GOAT, you have to beat the GOAT. At any one point in time there can be only one GOAT (see #1). So while someone might have a resume that ranks him above a prior GOAT or as one of the two best all time, they cannot be the GOAT unless their resume surpasses whoever holds the then current GOAT title.
4. Olympic results after the completion of college do not factor in, but Olympic results during (or before?) college do factor in, but do not necessarily trump college results. After all, this is the College Wrestling board.

Your GOAT Timeline

• 1928 The OG (Original GOAT) - Harold Demarsh winner of the first weight contested at the first NCAA tournament, DeMarsh was 5-0 as a senior with just 2 of those victories at the tournament. I know. But we have to start somewhere. As an aside, everything old is new again. THIS was the original age of load management.
   
• 1928 George Rule - replaces Harold Demarsh as he was 8-0 and won the 1928 175 pound bracket with 3 victories.
   
• 1928 Earl McCready - even though he only won 2 matches at that inaugural tournament, McCready did it in style with back to back oinfalls. His 19 second pinfall in the finals is still the tournament record. McCready went on to win two more titles in undefeated fashion while pinfalling everything in sight. He finished his college career 25-0 with 20 pinfalls. As a sophomore, McCready represented Canada in the 1928 Olympics, finishing in a tie for 6th. https://olympics.com/en/athletes/earl-mccready

While the 1928 tournament went through GOATs almost as fast as it went through bouts, it would be some time before Earl was replaced on the GOAT list.

• 1957 Dan Hodge - From 1955 to 1957 Hodge went 46-0 with 36 pinfalls (22 in a row at one point). While it is not the Olympics, this achievement also adds to the GOAT resume. From his NWHOF bio "In one 10-day span in 1956, his junior year, Hodge won the NCAA title and National AAU championships in both Greco-Roman and freestyle, winning every bout in those three tournaments by fall." Hodege also gets huge bonus points for wrestling in the Olympics WHILE STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL, finishing 5th in 1952. In 1956, while still in college he finished second in the 1956 Olympics on a controversial rolling pin call. The one ding against him is that he actually lost the 1956 Olympic trials, but when the trials winner was disqualified because he had coached (oh, the scandal), Hodge was his substitute. https://olympics.com/en/athletes/daniel-allen-hodge
   
• 1966 Yojiro Uetake - This is a tough one. At 58-0 Uetake did not wrestle a significantly greater number of matches than Hodge, certainly not enough more to replace Hodge on volume alone. So the tie breaker for me is his Olympic result while in college. In 1964, after his sophomore year, Uetake traveled to Mexico CIty and took the 57kg gold. https://olympics.com/en/athletes/yojiro-uetake
   
• 2002 Cael Sanderson - 159, nuff said.

 

The Bad Beats Band of Brothers

So who are the guys who were good enough to be a GOAT, but had the misfortune of being born after a slightly GOATier GOAT?

Let's start with McCready's Oklahoma State teammate, Conrad Caldwell. He went 18-0 but started his career 1 year after McCready. Ditto Jack Van Bebber, another McCready teammate who went 22-0 but started his run a year too late. One year younger and Harold DeMarsh is never a GOAT. But he is, and they are not. This GOAT stuff is pretty unfair.

Next on my list is a third Cowboy, Rex Peery, he of the 29-0 career mark and the GOAT of genetic material. This is clearly the GOAT family of wrestling without anyone becoming the actual GOAT. In addition to Rex's 3-3 NCAA tournaments, his sons Ed and Hugh also went 3-3. That their dad was also their coach almost seems unfair (a GOAT theme?).

Yes, unfairness is the theme. Probably the toughest to leave off the list is Gray Simons. An Olympic qualifier in 1960 (while in college) and 1964, he was 70-0 his sophomore through senior season. Attending Lock Haven meant he wrestled NAIA and NCAA. As a freshman he did lose twice, but was not eligible to wrestle in the NCAA tournament. He won four NAIA tournaments on top of his three NCAA tournaments, and was voted outstanding wrestler at 6 of those 7 tournaments.

 

Author's Note: Thank you @Jimmy Cinnabon for being a constant source of inspiration to us all.

[gimpeltf]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Reed

[Elevator]

https://www.eiwawrestling.org/HOF/Hall_of_Fame/dibatista-dick?view=bio

Penn's GOAT and perhaps the GOAT of his WWII wrestle-era.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

2017 - semi-finals match with Ramos: Spencer Lee

[gimpeltf]

8 minutes ago, Elevator said:

https://www.eiwawrestling.org/HOF/Hall_of_Fame/dibatista-dick?view=bio

Penn's GOAT and perhaps the GOAT of his WWII wrestle-era.

And the top referee in that era.

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

2017 - semi-finals match with Ramos: Spencer Lee

You just don't know how to take a compliment. You have already, very lamely, used this in your thread. The repeat performance makes is beyond lame. It is has gone from a bad look for them to a worse look for you. Way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Wrestleknownothing]

19 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Reed

I think my favorite Robin Reed fact is that he won the 1924 Olympic trials at FOUR weight classes.

Alas, he suffers from being born at the wrong time (in the wrong direction) for our college board.

[Wrestleknownothing]

18 minutes ago, Elevator said:

https://www.eiwawrestling.org/HOF/Hall_of_Fame/dibatista-dick?view=bio

Penn's GOAT and perhaps the GOAT of his WWII wrestle-era.

Ah, what could have been if not for WWII. Undefeated in high school, college, and at freestyle. 

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You just don't know how to take a compliment. You have already, very lamely, used this in your thread. The repeat performance makes is beyond lame. It is has gone from a bad look for them to a worse look for you. Way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Jimmy doesn't even know what GOAT stands for.  

[PortaJohn]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Jimmy doesn't even know what GOAT stands for.  

Maybe he got confused with GOATEE?

[Elevator]

2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Ah, what could have been if not for WWII. Undefeated in high school, college, and at freestyle. 

As Gimp notes, Dick stayed with the sport as a referee and was always very gracious.  He spoke at the 100th anniversary of the EIWA.  He readily acknowledged that wrestlers of his day could not compete with those of today.  Dick and many others of his day were multi-sport athletes and did not wrestle much out of season.

[peanut]

I don't know how anyone can top Uetake. He was undefeated, and he was the Olympic champ following his true sophomore season.

[Fadzaev2]

Some of my "GOAT's".....won't pick just one.......in America first.....John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Bruce Baumgartner (13 time world/Olympic medalist.  Others throughout the world.....Arsen Fadzaev, Sergei Belaglozov, B. Satiev, Valentine Jordanov, Alexander Medved (12 time world/Olympic medalist....11 gold).  *Karelin in GR.  I like Levan Tediashvili on this list as well.....he won world championships in 3 different weight class, in Russia, he is considered by many to be their most techical wrestler of all time...has wins in the Olympic finals over both Ben and John Peterson.  That's my rant, and I'm sticking to it...there could be others on my LIST.....LOL  MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL ON HERE!

[AgaveMaria]

On 12/15/2023 at 11:00 AM, ionel said:

Jimmy doesn't even know what GOAT stands for.  

Used to be the guy who screwed up bad. Now folks are too lazy to say "Greatest of All Time' and have changed that.

[PSULou64]

I thought this was like Highlander:

Edited December 17, 2023 by PSULou64

[D3UC157]

 Current estimates, 1 billion goats worldwide. Which doubled over the last 40 years from 500 million.

 

Among those 1 bil. are 300+ species

..as well as the likes of the alternate goats: Brady, MJ, Gretzky, Karelin, Phelps, Bolt, Ledecky, Serena, etc.

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

 Current estimates, 1 billion goats worldwide. Which doubled over the last 40 years from 500 million.

 

These are the goats Jimmy likes to talk about. 

[D3UC157]

Just now, ionel said:

These are the goats Jimmy likes to talk about. 

Unknown how many of the 1 Billion have been pinned.

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

Unknown how many of the 1 Billion have been pinned.

Undoubtedly many:

[Wrestleknownothing]

33 minutes ago, PSULou64 said:

I thought this was like Highlander:

Think of @Fadzaev2's list as The Gathering

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

Unknown how many of the 1 Billion have been pinned.

Shocked that Wkn hasn't started a thread on pinfelled goats.  

[bnwtwg]

[PortaJohn]

@Wrestleknownothingshouldn't there only be 5 goats.  One for each letter?

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

@Wrestleknownothingshouldn't there only be 5 goats.  One for each letter?

I don't write the rules (though actually I did attempt to, but why are we picking nits?), and they are clear.