Is Shapiro hurt?

[H82Lose]

I cannot believe people are not talking more about this.  I heard the coaches telling him to push through it etc.  The dude was either extremely out of shape or hurt.  Talent is there for sure. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

He majored the kid that got 4th then lost two on the backside. I hope he’s okay and there are better days to come! He’s a Freshman so he will learn from this, I’m still high on him as is everyone else I assume.

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/3/2023 at 3:45 PM, H82Lose said:

I cannot believe people are not talking more about this.  I heard the coaches telling him to push through it etc.  The dude was either extremely out of shape or hurt.  Talent is there for sure. 

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He is hurt, possibly from the end of the Andonian match (he received a leg hit to the leg in the final scramble).  Early in his second match, there was a high-speed scramble that ended off camera, followed by the Cornell corner coming over.  The ref then gave the "fist to the forehead" sign indicating concussion protocol, which was not initiated.  It was pretty clear that there was a head issue after that.  Really surprised he was allowed to continue.  I'll be surprised if he goes to the Collegiate Duals in two weeks.

He does not have a conditioning problem, that is clear.

[Paul158]

  On 12/3/2023 at 4:01 PM, BigRedFan said:

He is hurt, possibly from the end of the Andonian match (he received a leg hit to the leg in the final scramble).  Early in his second match, there was a high-speed scramble that ended off camera, followed by the Cornell corner coming over.  The ref then gave the "fist to the forehead" sign indicating concussion protocol, which was not initiated.  It was pretty clear that there was a head issue after that.  Really surprised he was allowed to continue.  I'll be surprised if he goes to the Collegiate Duals in two weeks.

He does not have a conditioning problem, that is clear.

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I am not sure about the injury. But in the first match he lost both wrestlers were doing some amazing scrambling. Shapiro looked fine except you could see he was getting frustrated by losing those scrambles. He is the extremely good new kid on the block. I'm sure the veteran wrestlers and coaches are taking note. They are preparing better. Shapiro will do fine, but he will have to adjust to the competition. We are just getting started. It is a very long season. He will be on the podium. 

[1032004]

  On 12/3/2023 at 4:01 PM, BigRedFan said:

He is hurt, possibly from the end of the Andonian match (he received a leg hit to the leg in the final scramble).  Early in his second match, there was a high-speed scramble that ended off camera, followed by the Cornell corner coming over.  The ref then gave the "fist to the forehead" sign indicating concussion protocol, which was not initiated.  It was pretty clear that there was a head issue after that.  Really surprised he was allowed to continue.  I'll be surprised if he goes to the Collegiate Duals in two weeks.

He does not have a conditioning problem, that is clear.

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He didn’t have a conditioning problem winning junior worlds, but he looked kinda gassed to me against Cardenas. Sick?  Jet lag?  I dunno, but conditioning did appear to be an issue

[Pinnacle]

  On 12/3/2023 at 4:01 PM, BigRedFan said:

He is hurt, possibly from the end of the Andonian match (he received a leg hit to the leg in the final scramble).  Early in his second match, there was a high-speed scramble that ended off camera, followed by the Cornell corner coming over.  The ref then gave the "fist to the forehead" sign indicating concussion protocol, which was not initiated.  It was pretty clear that there was a head issue after that.  Really surprised he was allowed to continue.  I'll be surprised if he goes to the Collegiate Duals in two weeks.

He does not have a conditioning problem, that is clear.

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If the ref signals concussion protocol how can it not at least be initiated? Surely the Cornell staff can't just ignore that? 

[Antitroll2828]

Shapiro getting the spencer lee treatment already? He lost so he must be hurt or sick 

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/3/2023 at 6:23 PM, Antitroll2828 said:

Shapiro getting the spencer lee treatment already? He lost so he must be hurt or sick 

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What do you think the ref is doing here in that match?

[Pinnacle]

And if said referee truly has signalled concussion protocol and Cornell staff actually has ignored his signal of concussion protocol (if it was indeed made in the first place), can said ref ignore that circumstance? 

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/3/2023 at 6:49 PM, Pinnacle said:

And if said referee truly has signalled concussion protocol and Cornell staff actually has ignored his signal of concussion protocol (if it was indeed made in the first place), can said ref ignore that circumstance? 

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Beats me.  That is the sign for concussion protocol, correct?  Certainly all was not well with Shapiro, right?

[gimpeltf]

  On 12/3/2023 at 6:49 PM, Pinnacle said:

And if said referee truly has signalled concussion protocol and Cornell staff actually has ignored his signal of concussion protocol (if it was indeed made in the first place), can said ref ignore that circumstance? 

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  On 12/3/2023 at 6:59 PM, BigRedFan said:

Beats me.  That is the sign for concussion protocol, correct?  Certainly all was not well with Shapiro, right?

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Interesting question. It's up to the school's medical staff to decide if he's ok, I guess.

[Pinnacle]

  On 12/3/2023 at 6:59 PM, BigRedFan said:

Beats me.  That is the sign for concussion protocol, correct?  Certainly all was not well with Shapiro, right?

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I could see he was tired. I wouldn't speculate beyond that. Let's see what Cornell's staff has to say. 

[1032004]

  On 12/3/2023 at 6:49 PM, Pinnacle said:

And if said referee truly has signalled concussion protocol and Cornell staff actually has ignored his signal of concussion protocol (if it was indeed made in the first place), can said ref ignore that circumstance? 

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Rulebook says a concussion evaluation timeout is unlimited with no mention of a minimum time, and that the wrestler’s institution’s medical personnel is the primary authority.

Edited December 3, 2023 by 1032004

[Idaho]

From the NCAA Wrestling Rules Book:

IF A CONCUSSION IS SUSPECTED:

1. Remove the student-athlete from play. Look for the signs and symptoms of concussion if the student-athlete has experienced a blow to the head. Do not allow the student-athlete to just “shake it off.” Each student-athlete will respond to concussions differently. 104 APPENDIX D / CONCUSSIONS

2. Ensure that the student-athlete is evaluated immediately by an appropriate health care professional. Do not try to judge the severity of the injury. Call an injury timeout to ensure that the student-athlete is evaluated by one of the primary athletics health care providers.

3. Allow the student-athlete to return to play only with permission from the primary athletics health care provider. Allow athletics medical staff to rely on their clinical skills and protocols in evaluating the student-athlete to establish the appropriate time to return to play. Please refer to the NCAA Sports Medicine Handbook and the Diagnosis and Management of Sport-Related Concussion Guidelines for additional information and details regarding concussions. Both are available at www.ncaa. org

[1032004]

  On 12/3/2023 at 7:05 PM, Idaho said:

From the NCAA Wrestling Rules Book:

IF A CONCUSSION IS SUSPECTED:

1. Remove the student-athlete from play. Look for the signs and symptoms of concussion if the student-athlete has experienced a blow to the head. Do not allow the student-athlete to just “shake it off.” Each student-athlete will respond to concussions differently. 104 APPENDIX D / CONCUSSIONS

2. Ensure that the student-athlete is evaluated immediately by an appropriate health care professional. Do not try to judge the severity of the injury. Call an injury timeout to ensure that the student-athlete is evaluated by one of the primary athletics health care providers.

3. Allow the student-athlete to return to play only with permission from the primary athletics health care provider. Allow athletics medical staff to rely on their clinical skills and protocols in evaluating the student-athlete to establish the appropriate time to return to play. Please refer to the NCAA Sports Medicine Handbook and the Diagnosis and Management of Sport-Related Concussion Guidelines for additional information and details regarding concussions. Both are available at www.ncaa. org

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There’s also a section for “concussion evaluation timeouts” after injury timeouts

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/3/2023 at 7:04 PM, gimpeltf said:

Interesting question. It's up to the school's medical staff to decide if he's ok, I guess.

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From the rule book (emphasis added):

  Quote

Allow the student-athlete to return to play only if the primary athletics healthcare provider has determined that the student-athlete did not suffer a concussion. Allow athletics medical staff to rely on their clinical skills and protocols in evaluating the student-athlete to establish the appropriate management.

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Certainly, Cornell staff has had plenty of concussion experience with both Foca and Ramirez suffering multiple concussions two seasons ago.

[Idaho]

  On 12/3/2023 at 7:11 PM, BigRedFan said:

From the rule book (emphasis added):

Certainly, Cornell staff has had plenty of concussion experience with both Foca and Ramirez suffering multiple concussions two seasons ago.

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All of this leads me to believe  either the ref was not signaling concussion protocol and that was not the issue or he passed concussion protocol and continued to wrestle. 

[gimpeltf]

And to clarify something- in talking with officials, they are not making any decisions other than asking for assistance from the medical staff. Technically, if the official thinks it IS a concussion- the match is over.

 

Also, as an aside- when I first saw the= signal being demonstrated at an officials meeting pre-season, I asked him why they chose to use the d@#$head signal!

Edited December 3, 2023 by gimpeltf

[Hammerlock3]

I think he was just overwhelmed. the kid had ridiculous expectation thrust on him by people farming clicks.

[1032004]

  On 12/3/2023 at 8:19 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

I think he was just overwhelmed. the kid had ridiculous expectation thrust on him by people farming clicks.

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That’s silly.  He’s a world champion, and he didn’t look overwhelmed against Andonian.

[Hammerlock3]

  On 12/3/2023 at 8:22 PM, 1032004 said:

That’s silly.  He’s a world champion, and he didn’t look overwhelmed against Andonian.

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no once he lost. maybe he just couldn't handle it. He'll mature a little and be fine.

[MPhillips]

  On 12/3/2023 at 5:27 PM, 1032004 said:

Jet lag?

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Again with the, "jet lag?" 

[Threadkilla]

Jetlag, concussion,mono,herpes, covid,Ivy league school, women.  Come on, we need to agree on something to stick with.  Let's wait til the Cleric Pyles or the all knowing JD are able to clear this up.  

Btw, He won world's in Free, which is not nearly as taxing as folk.  Winning over Andonian will gas ya.  Then you have to wrestle a tough kid that's lost 3 matches in College so far.  He gassed.  

But I'll wait for FRL to confirm my suspicion. 

 

[Hammerlock3]

  On 12/4/2023 at 1:10 AM, Threadkilla said:

Jetlag, concussion,mono,herpes, covid,Ivy league school, women.  Come on, we need to agree on something to stick with.  Let's wait til the Cleric Pyles or the all knowing JD are able to clear this up.  

Btw, He won world's in Free, which is not nearly as taxing as folk.  Winning over Andonian will gas ya.  Then you have to wrestle a tough kid that's lost 3 matches in College so far.  He gassed.  

But I'll wait for FRL to confirm my suspicion. 

 

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in conjunction with these points, the impulse to construct a narrative around everything is stupid and gross....but clicks

[1032004]

  On 12/4/2023 at 12:47 AM, MPhillips said:

Again with the, "jet lag?" 

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Hey, that’s my theory and I’m sticking to it