Stalling calls on counter wrestlers

[AgaveMaria]

Watched a match at Cliff Keen with Teemer of ASU. A lot of backing while setting up his takedowns. As a result was called for stalling a few times. Each time it seemed he shortly used his backing to get a takedown off the opponent initiating a move.

Does this style of wrestling really warrant continued stall calls? He was not backing to get away from an opponents moves but to set up his own which he did well each time.

Any wiggle room for Referees in this type of defensive counter wrestling?

[Grecojones]

  On 12/2/2023 at 9:59 PM, AgaveMaria said:

Watched a match at Cliff Keen with Teemer of ASU. A lot of backing while setting up his takedowns. As a result was called for stalling a few times. Each time it seemed he shortly used his backing to get a takedown off the opponent initiating a move.

Does this style of wrestling really warrant continued stall calls? He was not backing to get away from an opponents moves but to set up his own which he did well each time.

Any wiggle room for Referees in this type of defensive counter wrestling?

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I’m not sure how much is at the refs discretion… but yea it’s tough. Too easy to abuse if you don’t call it /shrug.

[1032004]

  On 12/2/2023 at 9:59 PM, AgaveMaria said:

Watched a match at Cliff Keen with Teemer of ASU. A lot of backing while setting up his takedowns. As a result was called for stalling a few times. Each time it seemed he shortly used his backing to get a takedown off the opponent initiating a move.

Does this style of wrestling really warrant continued stall calls? He was not backing to get away from an opponents moves but to set up his own which he did well each time.

Any wiggle room for Referees in this type of defensive counter wrestling?

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Backing up is stalling.  Waiting for an opponent to shoot so you can counter is stalling.

[Lipdrag]

  On 12/2/2023 at 10:21 PM, 1032004 said:

Backing up is stalling.  Waiting for an opponent to shoot so you can counter is stalling.

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Agree.  Also, a counter takedown should not be the same points as an initiated takedown.

[AgaveMaria]

You guys are nuts. Using an opponents moves against them takes talent and timing. Just like a counter puncher in boxing. Why penalize a competitor just because they don't do the way you think is right?

Backing and moving to set up an opponent is not running from an opponent. It is not running off the mat.

[1032004]

  On 12/3/2023 at 7:51 AM, AgaveMaria said:

You guys are nuts. Using an opponents moves against them takes talent and timing. Just like a counter puncher in boxing. Why penalize a competitor just because they don't do the way you think is right?

Backing and moving to set up an opponent is not running from an opponent. It is not running off the mat.

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Executing a counter takedown is not stalling, but you need to also be working your own, it’s literally under the definition of stalling - “continue wrestling in an attempt to secure a takedown.”   Just waiting for the other guy to do something is not attempting to secure a takedown.

Running off the mat is also stalling (it’d be fleeing the mat in high school), but so is backing up repeatedly.

[randyfoxwell]

If everyone was a counter wrestler, no one would ever watch the sport

 

[Ohio Elite]

  On 12/3/2023 at 11:55 AM, randyfoxwell said:

If everyone was a counter wrestler, no one would ever watch the sport

 

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True story..

[gimpeltf]

  On 12/3/2023 at 11:55 AM, randyfoxwell said:

If everyone was a counter wrestler, no one would ever watch the sport

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If no one ever shot- no one would ever learn how to counter- so this is a meaningless exercise.

[Ohio Elite]

  On 12/3/2023 at 12:21 PM, gimpeltf said:

If no one ever shot- no one would ever learn how to counter- so this is a meaningless exercise.

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True as well lol. When you get 2 counter wrestlers it usually a boring match. But when those guys pull the trigger though, alot of fireworks can fly.

[randyfoxwell]

  On 12/3/2023 at 12:21 PM, gimpeltf said:

If no one ever shot- no one would ever learn how to counter- so this is a meaningless exercise.

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Don't think it's meaningless. Noone wants to watch 2 defensive wrestlers go against each other. If you aren't creating offense you are stalling, which is what this post was about. 

[gimpeltf]

  On 12/3/2023 at 12:58 PM, randyfoxwell said:

Don't think it's meaningless. Noone wants to watch 2 defensive wrestlers go against each other. If you aren't creating offense you are stalling, which is what this post was about. 

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You missed my point. You clearly said everyone. If neither wrestler in a match- yes. You just went overboard in your statement.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

What if both guys back up in order to set up their takedowns?

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 12/3/2023 at 3:04 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What if both guys back up in order to set up their takedowns?

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Then we know where they trained.

 

 

[gimpeltf]

  On 12/3/2023 at 3:52 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Then we know where they trained.

 

 

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My favorite line in that is when Tom Ryan says he'd rather send his kid to Michigan camp!

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 12/3/2023 at 3:55 PM, gimpeltf said:

My favorite line in that is when Tom Ryan says he'd rather send his kid to Michigan camp!

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Love that one too. Also love shooters mop.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[forkemaz]

I'm am ASU fan and Jacori does not need to back peddle like that for the entire match for "his style" it looked like he realized he could get away with it and it allowed him go save energy for his explosive stuff. Was clear as day stalling IMO.

[Lipdrag]

  On 12/3/2023 at 3:55 PM, gimpeltf said:

My favorite line in that is when Tom Ryan says he'd rather send his kid to Michigan camp!

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For every action there is an inaction.  Physics.  Wayne Newton.

Quote Gold.

[alex1fly]

Dean Heil would like a word about the NCAA changing rules to punish specific styles

[PencilNeck]

  On 12/3/2023 at 12:58 PM, randyfoxwell said:

Don't think it's meaningless. Noone wants to watch 2 defensive wrestlers go against each other. If you aren't creating offense you are stalling, which is what this post was about. 

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related: I love when refs hit both athletes for stalling at the same time!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 12/4/2023 at 7:11 PM, PencilNeck said:

related: I love when refs hit both athletes for stalling at the same time!

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I'll occasionally do it i neutral, but not on the mat (Which Askren wants to see!!!)

[Gus]

You can be a counter wrestler while always looking to score. See: Lewis, Randy.