Maintaining Humanity During Disagreements

[jross]

Some folks maintain humanity by rejecting opinions, rejecting personal experiences, and dismissing cited sources while offering 'judgment' in return.

[mspart]

17 minutes ago, jross said:

Some folks maintain humanity by rejecting opinions, rejecting personal experiences, and dismissing cited sources while offering 'judgment' in return.

No that never happens.  

mspart

[Offthemat]

3 hours ago, mspart said:

No that never happens.  

mspart

The chart can be found here:  wwwyou’rewrongstupid. 

[Paul158]

8 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

If its repeated enough and not shouted down, it may be adopted as fact. 

Every time you try to rewrite history, if I see it, I will shout you down because you are wrong, and I won't let you forget it. 

I believe its more like get the history accurate so we can actually call it history. False or inaccurate history is not history. I will go head and say it for you " PROVE IT". 

[jross]

12 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

I have already said we are a gullible lot.  Anyone who still believes election lies is a clown.

I agree with the gullible.  

There is direct evidence of controlling the flow of information on the news, social media, and search browsers to make one side look better and shut down the other.  That is unfair at best and interference at worst.  

Election rigging is already proven in court.  Janet here got a slap on the wrist for it.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by jross

[ThreePointTakedown]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:08 AM, Paul158 said:

Thats exactly what 74,222,958 hard working,patriotic ,honest voters said when Joe Biden miraculously got 81,283,098 votes. They probably said a few other things also. Actually about 40 million democrat voters said the same thing knowing Joe had very  a slim chance of getting 70 million ( legal ) votes. Most of Joe Bidens Campaign Staff said the same thing.

Sure. This has all been proven to be a lie. You are a liar. Anyone who repeats this has no evidence of its truthiness and is just hoping that their big feels will miraculously become true. Recounts have happened. Some of them actually gave Biden(who is the President) more votes then originally counted. At no point has there been any evidence of mass voter fraud in favor of Biden(more than a few Republican voters were caught with their hands in the voter jar, no uproar about those political prisoners) and with so many people looking I would be hard pressed to think that if there was it would be found. But you know what they say, "conspiracy theorists never met evidence against their idea they couldn't reason away". If you want to hang your hat on not being able to prove a negative as evidence of your point, then you're denser then I thought and not worth the time. 

To repeat, you are a liar. Who repeats provable false claims. Every time you do, I will have evidence to prove your lyingnissatude. Not going to assume your motivation for doing this but from experience they're either malicious or ignorant. One can be mistaken for the other. Which one are you? 

[Paul158]

20 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Sure. This has all been proven to be a lie. You are a liar. Anyone who repeats this has no evidence of its truthiness and is just hoping that their big feels will miraculously become true. Recounts have happened. Some of them actually gave Biden(who is the President) more votes then originally counted. At no point has there been any evidence of mass voter fraud in favor of Biden(more than a few Republican voters were caught with their hands in the voter jar, no uproar about those political prisoners) and with so many people looking I would be hard pressed to think that if there was it would be found. But you know what they say, "conspiracy theorists never met evidence against their idea they couldn't reason away". If you want to hang your hat on not being able to prove a negative as evidence of your point, then you're denser then I thought and not worth the time. 

To repeat, you are a liar. Who repeats provable false claims. Every time you do, I will have evidence to prove your lyingnissatude. Not going to assume your motivation for doing this but from experience they're either malicious or ignorant. One can be mistaken for the other. Which one are you? 

You are a very interesting person. Its not the counting of the votes . Its how the votes were cast and who "actually" did the voting. The system we have in place makes it impossible to verify the validity of the votes themselves. So the counting of them proves nothing .Which makes are voting system inadequate. I know you don't agree with me but if you could refrain from your derogatory remarks.  

[jross]

To be clear, There is Republican rigging too.  It is unacceptable.  

Individuals have been convicted for voting for their dead parents, their neighbors, their children, hundreds of absentee ballots… year(s) after the fact.

There are still legal situations playing right now.  Folks are not exactly cooperating… Counting again in private while refusing accuser ballot inspections… shady…

I don’t mind being called an idiot but I do mind the lack of transparency and actions that bring confidence to election integrity.

Every election people and  presidential candidates are crying fowl… how can that stop?

[Paul158]

20 minutes ago, jross said:

To be clear, There is Republican rigging too.  It is unacceptable.  

Individuals have been convicted for voting for their dead parents, their neighbors, their children, hundreds of absentee ballots… year(s) after the fact.

There are still legal situations playing right now.  Folks are not exactly cooperating… Counting again in private while refusing accuser ballot inspections… shady…

I don’t mind being called an idiot but I do mind the lack of transparency and actions that bring confidence to election integrity.

Every election people and  presidential candidates are crying fowl… how can that stop?

In person voting with photo voter ID "ONLY". Only allow military to do absent voting and very few others. Extend early voting to 15 or 20 days if necessary.  That the Democrats for some reason think their voters can't get a voter ID  amazes me.

[Plasmodium]

13 hours ago, jross said:

I agree with the gullible.  

There is direct evidence of controlling the flow of information on the news, social media, and search browsers to make one side look better and shut down the other.  That is unfair at best and interference at worst.  

Election rigging is already proven in court.  Janet here got a slap on the wrist for it.

 

The convictions are evidence of the system working.

I don't know what more to say on the middle part.  It did happen, is happening and I hope will continue to happen.  It happens on both sides, but you fixate on a single side.  I don't think it is good for our country nor do I think individual companies are obligated to propagate the lies and slander of politicians and their pundits.  There is no personal consequence for it.  It undermines the entire system.  It is a cancer.  Primarily I think of Hunter Biden's laptop when I say that but there are probably other relevant situations.

[PortaJohn]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:31 PM, neutral said:

From the looks of some of the hard right posts in this forum, I do not believe I have much in common with many of you.  I wish no ill will, but that doesn't mean I am going to break bread either.

So much for keeping it neutral 

[jross]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

but you fixate on a single side

Correct due to unexplained red flags.

A large, unexpected increase in registered voters and the percentage that voted (5% higher / shared before) during a pandemic is a red flag.  

• Consider the 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic
  • The pandemic was bad but had largely died down by the time of the 1920 election. (source)
  • The male population increased by 2 million when comparing 1916 to 1920. (source)
  • The male voter count decreased by 6-21% when comparing 1916 to 1920.*
    • This is further surprising given the war from 1914 to 1918 would cause my assumption that voting in 1916 would be lower than in 1920. 
  • *Context
    • 1916 saw 18.5M male voters (source)
    • 1920
      • 26.7M voters, newly including women. (source)
      • Women voters estimated to have turned out at a 35 to 45 percent rate (compared with 68 percent of men voters) source
      • Assuming citizens are mostly evenly distributed, the male voters ranged from 14.7M to 17.4M.
      • When comparing 2016 male voters (18.5M) to 2020 male voters (14.7M - 17.4M), the data indicates a 6-21% reduction in male voters. 

Uniformity in voting patterns is a red flag.  Keep an eye on this Fulton County Case No. 2020CV343938.

• Read the linked fraud concerns testified under oath.
  • pre-printed
  • 100% marked for Biden
  • suspicious identical markings
  • ballots never folded
  • ballots came from drop boxes
• Read attached how the judge dismissed the case because the petitioners lacked standing due to a lack of a particularized injury. This means that the court did not address the case's merits or the substance of the allegations. Instead, it dismissed the case because it concluded that the petitioners did not sufficiently demonstrate a direct and personal harm that would give them the legal standing to bring the claims before the court.
• Read the press release from May of 2023. (link)
  • On December 20, 2022, VoterGA Petitioners in a counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots. Today, Petitioners, who expected Judge Brian Amero to resume the case, announced a motion to recuse newly assigned Judge Robert McBurney for bias. The inspection was delayed for over two years after Judge Brian Amero’s false ruling that Petitioners had no standing. Once Amero’s ruling was overturned, he transferred the case to McBurney who accepted it in a surprise move that Petitioners claim will obstruct an inspection.

The media says "No fraud detected" when the judge dismissed in 2021.  The current status is that the evidence of fraud has not been allowed for review.

favorito-order-10-13-2021.pdf

[mspart]

4 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

The convictions are evidence of the system working.

I don't know what more to say on the middle part.  It did happen, is happening and I hope will continue to happen.  It happens on both sides, but you fixate on a single side.  I don't think it is good for our country nor do I think individual companies are obligated to propagate the lies and slander of politicians and their pundits.  There is no personal consequence for it.  It undermines the entire system.  It is a cancer.  Primarily I think of Hunter Biden's laptop when I say that but there are probably other relevant situations.

I'm confused at what you are saying Plasi.   Here is what we know:

1.  Hunter's laptop is Hunter's?  

2.  There are many records that implicate him doing illegal things on it and this does make it relevant. 

What we know about what was said about it and chain of custody:

1.  FBI was provided the laptop in 2019.   They did not say anything about it.

2.  Oct 2020, NYP published a detailed article about the laptop with information of the contents. 

3.  50 intelligence folks said that the NYP and talk of the laptop was most likely Russian Disinformation. 

4.  NYP placed the article on Twitter, which deleted it and the NYP account so no one could access it via their social media website.  It is now known this was coordinated with the Feds via the Twitter Files. 

5.  How would this information have affected the election.   No one knows for sure.  But Items 1, 3-4 above made sure as few people knew about it as possible.  Why would they do that?   Obviously they felt like this would have an election impact.

This is just one situation and resulting many ways the 2020 election was tampered with. 

mspart

 

 

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

I'm confused at what you are saying Plasi.   Here is what we know:

1.  Hunter's laptop is Hunter's?  

2.  There are many records that implicate him doing illegal things on it and this does make it relevant. 

What we know about what was said about it and chain of custody:

1.  FBI was provided the laptop in 2019.   They did not say anything about it.

2.  Oct 2020, NYP published a detailed article about the laptop with information of the contents. 

3.  50 intelligence folks said that the NYP and talk of the laptop was most likely Russian Disinformation. 

4.  NYP placed the article on Twitter, which deleted it and the NYP account so no one could access it via their social media website.  It is now known this was coordinated with the Feds via the Twitter Files.

5.  How would this information have affected the election.   No one knows for sure.  But Items 1, 3-4 above made sure as few people knew about it as possible.  Why would they do that?   Obviously they felt like this would have an election impact.

This is just one situation and resulting many ways the 2020 election was tampered with. 

mspart

 

 

This is very GOP friendly perspective.   Allow me to clarify the record.

Donald Trump and his team provided a hard drive to the NY Post and only the NY Post, so anything they produced from that hard drive could not be independently vetted.  They did so very publicly and with salacious allegations of their own.  The NY Post dutifully produced what Trump said they would. That is called shameless propaganda.  And it was created by the largest bully pulpit in our country and in broad daylight to boot.   After the NY Post published their articles, some social media companies(including twitter) decided against distributing much of that propaganda.   This coordination was carefully timed and designed to run as an October Surprise ad campaign for Trump.  Trump then proceeded to accuse twitter - with a straight face! - of being unfair.   I say 'straight face',  because this was from a sitting President that openly and shamelessly worked hand in hand with the media to run an unverifiable political hit job on his opponent.  He may as well have ghost written the articles himself and given the credit to a reporter for appearance's sake.   Lets not complain about media bias without mentioning all media bias.

I love what twitter did.  Whoever decided to do that was spot on.  History has shown those articles were nothing more than a smear campaign timed to prevent the Biden campaign from defending themselves.  Highly, highly unethical.

The Twitter files, with respect to the Hunter Biden laptop, were an absolute nothing burger. Just dick pic filtering.  The FBI subpoenaed the hard drive in court, so I don't think anything was done in secrecy.  Additionally the FBI is not a political arm of the White House, so it wasn't their business even if it was kept in secret.

 

[Offthemat]

[jross]

This was declined in NY ...but what? 

Attempting to allow noncitizens to vote?

It is already allowed in some places!?!?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/judge-says-new-york-city-cant-let-noncitizens-vote-in-city-elections

[braves121]

it doesn't make sense about the whole theory that J6 was mainly feds becuase why in the world would they incite a riot trying to keep Trump as president? I thought the deep state hated trump what would they gain from keeping him installed. So the Dems wanted to incite a riot to try and keep Trump President when their nominee won?

[jross]

19 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

FBI is not a political arm of the White House

The FBI has people in it, and people are partisan.

Search "FBI is not a political arm of the White House"

What do you see? 

"The FBI Wasn't Supposed to Be Political—But It Has Been Since the Beginning"

[Offthemat]

30 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

This is very GOP friendly perspective.   Allow me to clarify the record.

Donald Trump and his team provided a hard drive to the NY Post and only the NY Post, so anything they produced from that hard drive could not be independently vetted.  They did so very publicly and with salacious allegations of their own.  The NY Post dutifully produced what Trump said they would. That is called shameless propaganda.  And it was created by the largest bully pulpit in our country and in broad daylight to boot.   After the NY Post published their articles, some social media companies(including twitter) decided against distributing much of that propaganda.   This coordination was carefully timed and designed to run as an October Surprise ad campaign for Trump.  Trump then proceeded to accuse twitter - with a straight face! - of being unfair.   I say 'straight face',  because this was from a sitting President that openly and shamelessly worked hand in hand with the media to run an unverifiable political hit job on his opponent.  He may as well have ghost written the articles himself and given the credit to a reporter for appearance's sake.   Lets not complain about media bias without mentioning all media bias.

I love what twitter did.  Whoever decided to do that was spot on.  History has shown those articles were nothing more than a smear campaign timed to prevent the Biden campaign from defending themselves.  Highly, highly unethical.

The Twitter files, with respect to the Hunter Biden laptop, were an absolute nothing burger. Just dick pic filtering.  The FBI subpoenaed the hard drive in court, so I don't think anything was done in secrecy.  Additionally the FBI is not a political arm of the White House, so it wasn't their business even if it was kept in secret.

 

Talk about revisionist denial.  The FBI had the laptop for nearly a year before it was published in the Post.  They could have easily ‘leaked’ verification.  Instead, they pre-programmed twitter to block it as part of their operation to prevent Trump’s re-election.  The Intelligence Community had no business sticking their nose in, either, but they did, and the only member I recall refuting it was Trump’s DNI John Ratcliffe.  The agencies that are responsible for worldwide election interference turned their tradecraft on domestic affairs. 
 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/hunter-biden-fact-check-falsehoods-clapper-claims-laptop-letter-distorted

[Plasmodium]

10 minutes ago, jross said:

The FBI has people in it, and people are partisan.

Search "FBI is not a political arm of the White House"

What do you see? 

"The FBI Wasn't Supposed to Be Political—But It Has Been Since the Beginning"

Agreed

[Plasmodium]

19 minutes ago, braves121 said:

it doesn't make sense about the whole theory that J6 was mainly feds becuase why in the world would they incite a riot trying to keep Trump as president? I thought the deep state hated trump what would they gain from keeping him installed. So the Dems wanted to incite a riot to try and keep Trump President when their nominee won?

It was make ‘em look bad!  :)

[jross]

7 minutes ago, braves121 said:

it doesn't make sense about the whole theory that J6 was mainly feds becuase why in the world would they incite a riot trying to keep Trump as president? I thought the deep state hated trump what would they gain from keeping him installed. So the Dems wanted to incite a riot to try and keep Trump President when their nominee won?

My view of the forest.

4D chess. 

The deep state and FBI leadership are anti-Trump and pro-establishment.

Trump has the huge support of anti-establishment people.

There are not enough crazy people in this developed country to actually reinstate Trump as president through violence. 

By influencing the events and propagandizing 'violent insurrection,' the deep state continues its aggressive attempts from removing Trump to never allowing him to run for president again.

[jross]

Oh snap!  The above thoughts ^^^ are shared.

 

[mspart]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

This is very GOP friendly perspective.   Allow me to clarify the record.

Donald Trump and his team provided a hard drive to the NY Post and only the NY Post, so anything they produced from that hard drive could not be independently vetted.  They did so very publicly and with salacious allegations of their own.  The NY Post dutifully produced what Trump said they would. That is called shameless propaganda.  And it was created by the largest bully pulpit in our country and in broad daylight to boot.   After the NY Post published their articles, some social media companies(including twitter) decided against distributing much of that propaganda.   This coordination was carefully timed and designed to run as an October Surprise ad campaign for Trump.  Trump then proceeded to accuse twitter - with a straight face! - of being unfair.   I say 'straight face',  because this was from a sitting President that openly and shamelessly worked hand in hand with the media to run an unverifiable political hit job on his opponent.  He may as well have ghost written the articles himself and given the credit to a reporter for appearance's sake.   Lets not complain about media bias without mentioning all media bias.

I love what twitter did.  Whoever decided to do that was spot on.  History has shown those articles were nothing more than a smear campaign timed to prevent the Biden campaign from defending themselves.  Highly, highly unethical.

The Twitter files, with respect to the Hunter Biden laptop, were an absolute nothing burger. Just dick pic filtering.  The FBI subpoenaed the hard drive in court, so I don't think anything was done in secrecy.  Additionally the FBI is not a political arm of the White House, so it wasn't their business even if it was kept in secret.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

In September 2023, Hunter Biden filed a civil lawsuit against Giuliani, his companies and attorney Robert Costello, alleging that they had spent years "hacking into, tampering with, manipulating, copying, disseminating, and generally obsessing over data that they were given that was taken or stolen from" his personal devices and caused "total annihilation" of his digital privacy.

So Hunter admits the laptop was his.   Conspiracy theory #1 confirmed.   A nothing burger that contains emails that confirm Joe Biden KNEW about his son's business dealings and met with his son's domestic and foreign business partners either in person or on phone.  

This contradicts Joe's campaign and later while President assertion that he knew nothing about Hunter's business.   But he did.   Conspiracy theory #2 confirmed. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fbi-verified-authenticity-of-hunter-biden-s-abandoned-laptop-in-november-2019-irs-whistleblower/ar-AA1cU3Iu

 

Most news outlets ignored the laptop’s contents until well after Biden won the 2020 election, with the Washington Post and New York Times saying only in March 2022 that they had confirmed the authenticity of files.

Again we have confirmation that the laptop and files belonged to Hunter Biden.   Further confirmation that conspiracy theory #1 was true.   So your assertion that NYP "dutifully produced what Trump said they would", is an absolute misrepresentation of the truth.   Hunter is suing because the laptop contained info he didn't want out there and the WAPO and NYT have confirmed the authenticity of the files.   NYP did nothing wrong here, they published the information which has later been confirmed.   Sorry Plasi but your revision of history doesn't stand up. 

Twitter deleted information that was true.   You like that?   That is a good thing?   And the effect that had on the election is incalculable. 

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2020/nov/26/cooper-biden-voters/

One in six Biden voters would have changed their minds if they had known the full story

Might that have moved the election?   Possibly.  So burying this was good in your opinion?  That's crazy.   It goes to show you are more political than moral.   You would rather have Biden win under suspicious circumstances than Trump win out in the open.   That mindset is how democracy is lost.   It isn't Trump that is a danger to democracy, it is that mindset that the ends justify the means that is a danger to democracy.   People come and go, but closely held beliefs are tough to change, especially when one is not open to the truth. 

mspart

[Plasmodium]

26 minutes ago, mspart said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

In September 2023, Hunter Biden filed a civil lawsuit against Giuliani, his companies and attorney Robert Costello, alleging that they had spent years "hacking into, tampering with, manipulating, copying, disseminating, and generally obsessing over data that they were given that was taken or stolen from" his personal devices and caused "total annihilation" of his digital privacy.

So Hunter admits the laptop was his.   Conspiracy theory #1 confirmed.   A nothing burger that contains emails that confirm Joe Biden KNEW about his son's business dealings and met with his son's domestic and foreign business partners either in person or on phone.  

This contradicts Joe's campaign and later while President assertion that he knew nothing about Hunter's business.   But he did.   Conspiracy theory #2 confirmed. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fbi-verified-authenticity-of-hunter-biden-s-abandoned-laptop-in-november-2019-irs-whistleblower/ar-AA1cU3Iu

 

Most news outlets ignored the laptop’s contents until well after Biden won the 2020 election, with the Washington Post and New York Times saying only in March 2022 that they had confirmed the authenticity of files.

Again we have confirmation that the laptop and files belonged to Hunter Biden.   Further confirmation that conspiracy theory #1 was true.   So your assertion that NYP "dutifully produced what Trump said they would", is an absolute misrepresentation of the truth.   Hunter is suing because the laptop contained info he didn't want out there and the WAPO and NYT have confirmed the authenticity of the files.   NYP did nothing wrong here, they published the information which has later been confirmed.   Sorry Plasi but your revision of history doesn't stand up. 

Twitter deleted information that was true.   You like that?   That is a good thing?   And the effect that had on the election is incalculable. 

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2020/nov/26/cooper-biden-voters/

One in six Biden voters would have changed their minds if they had known the full story

Might that have moved the election?   Possibly.  So burying this was good in your opinion?  That's crazy.   It goes to show you are more political than moral.   You would rather have Biden win under suspicious circumstances than Trump win out in the open.   That mindset is how democracy is lost.   It isn't Trump that is a danger to democracy, it is that mindset that the ends justify the means that is a danger to democracy.   People come and go, but closely held beliefs are tough to change, especially when one is not open to the truth. 

mspart

This is a lot of reading you are inflicting on me.  At first glance I don't disagree with much.  However,  I stick to my pistolas that this was a pure propaganda smear campaign in 2020 and the media bias was more on the Trump administration and the NY Post than Twitter and Facebook.  Like I said, Trump effectively wrote the articles and the NY Post published them.  Not good in my view.  History and time are telling us there is nothing incriminating on that laptop.