Husker_Du Posted February 23 Posted February 23 only in America, in 2024, would 'kill terrorists' be met with skepticism 2 TBD
GreatWhiteNorth Posted February 23 Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Husker_Du said: only in America, in 2024, would 'kill terrorists' be met with skepticism That is actually an insightful and pertinent statement (I image you didn't come up with it yourself.) The right or wrong of terrorism is exactly what separates the sides here: Hamas is small, Israel is big, so Hamas is justified in killing innocent people randomly. Screw that, kill innocent women and children and take hostages and you bastards will pay. I'm on the side of the second one (and it's not even remotely close.) But there are folks in this world that think the first one makes sense... these are who we're at war with.
JimmyBT Posted February 27 Posted February 27 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-authority-s-government-resigns-yielding-to-international-pressure/ar-BB1iUd2C?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e0fdf825eac44bd5b9cc483c7ace262e&ei=21 Change in government is beginning. 1
Offthemat Posted February 27 Posted February 27 3 hours ago, JimmyBT said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-authority-s-government-resigns-yielding-to-international-pressure/ar-BB1iUd2C?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e0fdf825eac44bd5b9cc483c7ace262e&ei=21 Change in government is beginning. Israel remains steadfast in their commitment. 1
red viking Posted February 27 Posted February 27 Israel will undoubtedly win the short-term war with Hamas. Nobody ever doubted that. However, their inhumane butchery is breeding far more hatred worldwide and will be their long-term demise.
JimmyBT Posted February 27 Posted February 27 3 hours ago, Offthemat said: Israel remains steadfast in their commitment. Removing Hamas will make a huge impact on the people in Gaza.
Offthemat Posted February 27 Posted February 27 7 minutes ago, red viking said: Israel will undoubtedly win the short-term war with Hamas. Nobody ever doubted that. However, their inhumane butchery is breeding far more hatred worldwide and will be their long-term demise. They’ve been breeding for a long time.
mspart Posted February 27 Posted February 27 28 minutes ago, JimmyBT said: Removing Hamas will make a huge impact on the people in Gaza. Hopefully this will be a difference. But I remember being shocked when the Gazans voted in Hamas. If Hamas is gone, I wonder if the Gazans will have learned a lesson or vote in a similarly blood thirsty war mongering regime that will not let them vote again. Again, this could all end now if the Gazans, who we are told are suffering mightily, would turn over their Hamas overlords to the Israelis. Or at least tell them where they are. Then they would be free to create whatever they want. Again, will they have learned anything from this or go back to what they have had? mspart
JimmyBT Posted February 27 Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, mspart said: Hopefully this will be a difference. But I remember being shocked when the Gazans voted in Hamas. If Hamas is gone, I wonder if the Gazans will have learned a lesson or vote in a similarly blood thirsty war mongering regime that will not let them vote again. Again, this could all end now if the Gazans, who we are told are suffering mightily, would turn over their Hamas overlords to the Israelis. Or at least tell them where they are. Then they would be free to create whatever they want. Again, will they have learned anything from this or go back to what they have had? mspart You have to hope they learned they’re lesson when it comes voting. Maybe a constitution would help.
Offthemat Posted February 27 Posted February 27 7 minutes ago, mspart said: Hopefully this will be a difference. But I remember being shocked when the Gazans voted in Hamas. If Hamas is gone, I wonder if the Gazans will have learned a lesson or vote in a similarly blood thirsty war mongering regime that will not let them vote again. Again, this could all end now if the Gazans, who we are told are suffering mightily, would turn over their Hamas overlords to the Israelis. Or at least tell them where they are. Then they would be free to create whatever they want. Again, will they have learned anything from this or go back to what they have had? mspart Recent polling shows 90% of innocent civilian Gazans support Hamas remaining in control of Gaza.
Offthemat Posted February 28 Posted February 28 1 hour ago, mspart said: Of course it does. Those guys are nuts I guess. mspart It shows 85% of Israelis support the IDF’s stated mission in Gaza.
JimmyBT Posted February 28 Posted February 28 16 hours ago, red viking said: Israel will undoubtedly win the short-term war with Hamas. Nobody ever doubted that. However, their inhumane butchery is breeding far more hatred worldwide and will be their long-term demise. I’ll take that bet.
Husker_Du Posted February 28 Posted February 28 On 2/27/2024 at 1:59 PM, red viking said: Israel will undoubtedly win the short-term war with Hamas. Nobody ever doubted that. However, their inhumane butchery is breeding far more hatred worldwide and will be their long-term demise. lol. typical lefty cheerleading. lemme guess... you said Ukraine would win in 6 weeks, too. 1 TBD
uncle bernard Posted February 29 Posted February 29 18 hours ago, Husker_Du said: lol. typical lefty cheerleading. lemme guess... you said Ukraine would win in 6 weeks, too. I still don't get the conservative Putin cheerleading. Do you think it's good that Putin invaded Ukraine? Shouldn't we all be concerned when a nuclear power invades sovereign neighbors?
uncle bernard Posted February 29 Posted February 29 Reported massacre at a food aid station in Gaza. IDF opened fire on the crowd. Reports saying 100 dead, several hundred wounded. We'll wait for official numbers. IDF is saying the crowd rushed the line and the soldiers felt threatened and opened fire. As famine and disease continue to spread, this situation will continue to worsen with no ceasefire.
uncle bernard Posted February 29 Posted February 29 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/29/dozens-killed-injured-by-israeli-fire-in-gaza-while-collecting-food-aid "Reporting from occupied East Jerusalem, Al Jazeera’s Bernard Smith said the Israeli military “initially tried to pin the blame on the crowd” saying that dozens were hurt as a consequence of being crushed and trampled when aid trucks arrived. “And then, after some pushing the Israelis went on to say that their troops felt threatened, that hundreds of troops approached their troops in a way they posed a threat to them so they responded by opening fire,” Smith added." "The mass shooting was the latest instance of systematic attacks on hungry people waiting for scraps of food. Over the past few days, Palestinians gathered in large groups waiting for aid trucks on Salah al-Din Street near Gaza City have been shot at by Israeli forces, said Al Jazeera’s Hani Mahmoud, reporting from Rafah in the enclave’s south."
ThreePointTakedown Posted February 29 Posted February 29 On 2/27/2024 at 5:05 PM, JimmyBT said: Removing Hamas will make a huge impact on the people in Gaza. 'Removing Hamas', is that even possible? How is it we, as a society, cannot learn that these conflicts are unwinnable in the traditional sense? We didn't win in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq. It just got too costly to keep making little to no progress. We end up creating bigger problems then when we started and losing or weakening relationships with our allies. Do we roll over and let things like 10/7 just happen? No. But its deeper than that. Have we tried to understand why it started in the first place? Not really. Emotions run high. Anti-Semite gets thrown around and nuance goes out the window. I understand it is difficult to admit that anything but total victory is unacceptable. But those results are not how the world works anymore. No more trench lines and pincer moves. Unfortunately, people are taught at a very early age that their beliefs are holy and righteous. That any opposition to them is only more proof that their faith is in the right place. It is incredibly difficult to change their minds with logic and reason. If/when they do come out of it they admit that their beliefs and actions were unwarranted in many ways. Does that sound familiar at all? One of the issues that makes this so difficult is one side's inability to change their mind or objective based on shared facts as the rest of the world sees them. Religious doctrine coupled with poverty and seemingly or actual abject treatment from a perceived enemy. These factors makes it all but impossible for Hamas to surrender, admit defeat, or even recognize that what they are doing is wrong. They feel they are righteous in their pursuits. In some ways the people of Gaza may be victim to Helsinki Syndrome. Not being able to recognize or admit that Hamas is both a protector and an oppressor.
JimmyBT Posted February 29 Posted February 29 1 minute ago, ThreePointTakedown said: 'Removing Hamas', is that even possible? How is it we, as a society, cannot learn that these conflicts are unwinnable in the traditional sense? We didn't win in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq. It just got too costly to keep making little to no progress. We end up creating bigger problems then when we started and losing or weakening relationships with our allies. Do we roll over and let things like 10/7 just happen? No. But its deeper than that. Have we tried to understand why it started in the first place? Not really. Emotions run high. Anti-Semite gets thrown around and nuance goes out the window. I understand it is difficult to admit that anything but total victory is unacceptable. But those results are not how the world works anymore. No more trench lines and pincer moves. Unfortunately, people are taught at a very early age that their beliefs are holy and righteous. That any opposition to them is only more proof that their faith is in the right place. It is incredibly difficult to change their minds with logic and reason. If/when they do come out of it they admit that their beliefs and actions were unwarranted in many ways. Does that sound familiar at all? One of the issues that makes this so difficult is one side's inability to change their mind or objective based on shared facts as the rest of the world sees them. Religious doctrine coupled with poverty and seemingly or actual abject treatment from a perceived enemy. These factors makes it all but impossible for Hamas to surrender, admit defeat, or even recognize that what they are doing is wrong. They feel they are righteous in their pursuits. In some ways the people of Gaza may be victim to Helsinki Syndrome. Not being able to recognize or admit that Hamas is both a protector and an oppressor. Ummmmmm Israel is fighting this war 1
ThreePointTakedown Posted February 29 Posted February 29 On 2/27/2024 at 5:37 PM, mspart said: Hopefully this will be a difference. But I remember being shocked when the Gazans voted in Hamas. If Hamas is gone, I wonder if the Gazans will have learned a lesson or vote in a similarly blood thirsty war mongering regime that will not let them vote again. Again, this could all end now if the Gazans, who we are told are suffering mightily, would turn over their Hamas overlords to the Israelis. Or at least tell them where they are. Then they would be free to create whatever they want. Again, will they have learned anything from this or go back to what they have had? mspart Can you site a time when that has ever happened? If not, how can you honestly expect something like that to just manifest itself today?
ThreePointTakedown Posted February 29 Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, JimmyBT said: Ummmmmm Israel is fighting this war But what does that have to do with what I wrote?
mspart Posted February 29 Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said: Can you site a time when that has ever happened? If not, how can you honestly expect something like that to just manifest itself today? I don't expect it which is why I wrote it. It would be the sane thing for them to do. Hamas has brought them untold horror in life and they do not like Hamas particularly, but would vote for them anyway, if Hamas either gave a vote or were eradicated creating a vacuum so a vote was necessary. I was pointing out the incredible opportunity those people have over there but will not take advantage of it. They could have a much better life but not with a corrupt war mongering machine that is Hamas. Hamas has taken all the aid and not given it to the people, they have not developed their own water, fuel, or electrical systems. They have not developed anything other than tunnels and hiding munitions among the people, and lining their own pockets. Hamas is as corrupt as any corrupt government. The people of Gaza should be able to recognize this and take measures to rid themselves of it. But they won't. But it would be the sane thing to do in an insane part of the world. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire; Hamas and Hezbollah Unpopular Among Key Arab Publics https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 Palestinian poll shows a rise in Hamas support and close to 90% wanting US-backed Abbas to resign The first was after the Oct 7 massacre. The second was in Dec. No they won't turn on Hamas, but they should. Do you not agree? mspart
JimmyBT Posted February 29 Posted February 29 32 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said: But what does that have to do with what I wrote? Is Israel us? Nope.
ThreePointTakedown Posted February 29 Posted February 29 (edited) 1 minute ago, JimmyBT said: Is Israel us? Nope. Still has nothing to do with my first comment. Edited February 29 by ThreePointTakedown
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