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59 KG womens Janiak USA vs Russo Italy what happened , Please explain


Paul158

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1 hour ago, Paul158 said:

Match ends  *8 to8 .Janiak had criteria. Russo challenges and wins 9 to 8.  there was only 4 seconds Russo did not score on any action at the end. Very puzzled.

They challenged for fleeing hold on that last five seconds.  Tough way to make that kind of call......but she was on her bicycle.

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2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

They challenged for fleeing hold on that last five seconds.  Tough way to make that kind of call......but she was on her bicycle.

You are correct about what happened - Most of the time the ref will stop the action and issue a warning to the offending wrestler prior to calling the penalty point.  The ref did not issue a warning nor did he call the fleeing.  I can't believe they did that on a challenge.  Young Miss Janiak does bear some of the fault in that she stopped wrestling to score one minute before the match was over - she gave up 2 TDs in the last 25 seconds while she was in killing time mode. I hope she learns from that.  That being said the call was still horrible.

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14 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

You are correct about what happened - Most of the time the ref will stop the action and issue a warning to the offending wrestler prior to calling the penalty point.  The ref did not issue a warning nor did he call the fleeing.  I can't believe they did that on a challenge.  Young Miss Janiak does bear some of the fault in that she stopped wrestling to score one minute before the match was over - she gave up 2 TDs in the last 25 seconds while she was in killing time mode. I hope she learns from that.  That being said the call was still horrible.

Yeah, can agree to not necessarily like the call, but more so I see three different things she could have done at the end, any one of the three finishes off the match. So that said I’m not going to put the loss on a correct call at maybe a bad time. 
 

Feel very confident that everyone who is up in arms, if it was precisely reversed and she won in that manner, it would be absolutely deserved and we’re glad they went to review to get it right. (Many may not admit it but it’s the truth) 

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28 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

You are correct about what happened - Most of the time the ref will stop the action and issue a warning to the offending wrestler prior to calling the penalty point.  The ref did not issue a warning nor did he call the fleeing.  I can't believe they did that on a challenge.  Young Miss Janiak does bear some of the fault in that she stopped wrestling to score one minute before the match was over - she gave up 2 TDs in the last 25 seconds while she was in killing time mode. I hope she learns from that.  That being said the call was still horrible.

Yes that is a tough lesson to learn. There are about ten things you can do to kill 5 seconds. She also was ahead by 4  with 25 seconds left. What ever you do, do not leave in the referees hands. She will learn and be a better wrestler.

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How is it leaving the match in the hands of the ref when there was no previous caution, attention or warning? That is my understanding of what happened. If that's the case, it would be like awarding a point for stalling after an NCAA finals match when the wrestler had not been given a stalling warning during the match. She didn't crawl out of bounds to deserve a fleeing or a caution. 

In this case the saying should be re-jiggered to: Don't leave the match in the hands of anti-American bias. 

 

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51 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

How is it leaving the match in the hands of the ref when there was no previous caution, attention or warning? That is my understanding of what happened. If that's the case, it would be like awarding a point for stalling after an NCAA finals match when the wrestler had not been given a stalling warning during the match. She didn't crawl out of bounds to deserve a fleeing or a caution. 

In this case the saying should be re-jiggered to: Don't leave the match in the hands of anti-American bias. 

 

Leaving the mat is not a requisite for fleeing the hold, nor is a warning before a point is given. 
 

In the USWOA webinar it discusses three options to evaluate for negative wrestling. The second one categorizes fleeing the hold, and a caution 1. It clearly states that if there is sufficient time in the match a warning can be given first, but if insufficient time remains a caution and one should be offered. 
 

It’s important to understand that it goes beyond the black and white reading of the rule book, because the rule book is interpreted into however many different languages. The concept is key, and the concept here as it relates to this match is she was avoiding wrestling, at the very end of the matcha caution and 1 is warranted…..

 

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58 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

How is it leaving the match in the hands of the ref when there was no previous caution, attention or warning? That is my understanding of what happened. If that's the case, it would be like awarding a point for stalling after an NCAA finals match when the wrestler had not been given a stalling warning during the match. She didn't crawl out of bounds to deserve a fleeing or a caution. 

In this case the saying should be re-jiggered to: Don't leave the match in the hands of anti-American bias. 

 

I feel this call could go ether way easily. It could have been a warning as time ran out. It could have been a no call since had run out or it could be a penalty. Unfortunately she got hit for the penalty. She came and got bronze. The girl that beat her got Gold/

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1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Leaving the mat is not a requisite for fleeing the hold, nor is a warning before a point is given. 
 

In the USWOA webinar it discusses three options to evaluate for negative wrestling. The second one categorizes fleeing the hold, and a caution 1. It clearly states that if there is sufficient time in the match a warning can be given first, but if insufficient time remains a caution and one should be offered. 
 

It’s important to understand that it goes beyond the black and white reading of the rule book, because the rule book is interpreted into however many different languages. The concept is key, and the concept here as it relates to this match is she was avoiding wrestling, at the very end of the matcha caution and 1 is warranted…..

 

Your rule fails to mention the literal thousands of times a wrestler has disengaged in the waning seconds without a match-determining point being awarded.

I am aware of one instance. That's hard to explain, don't you think?

The new aphorism: Don't leave the match in the hands of anti-American bias.

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Your rule fails to mention the literal thousands of times a wrestler has disengaged in the waning seconds without a match-determining point being awarded.
I am aware of one instance. That's hard to explain, don't you think?
The new aphorism: Don't leave the match in the hands of anti-American bias.

Because the Italians have such a big influence … Let’s not confuse possible ineptitude with corruption. They’re allowed to exist differently

I thought it was a bad call, but in asking some officials I know about it, they don’t seem to find it that egregious considering the last minute of the bout.

Horrible way to not win - I won’t say lose here. Not every bad call we perceive is anti-American bias.
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Jason Bryant hasn't worked here since 2008. 

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52 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Your rule fails to mention the literal thousands of times a wrestler has disengaged in the waning seconds without a match-determining point being awarded.

I am aware of one instance. That's hard to explain, don't you think?

The new aphorism: Don't leave the match in the hands of anti-American bias.

There’s also been plenty of matches where caution and 1 has been awarded. Did we not learn anything from the Mongolian strip tease??

We can run around and cry and whine anti-American all we want. It might make it easier for us to sleep at night, but what does it do to help for the next time? 
 

Or…we can look at what it is, and what we did that we can correct for the next time.   Everyone has their own way…

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45 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:


Because the Italians have such a big influence … Let’s not confuse possible ineptitude with corruption. They’re allowed to exist differently

I thought it was a bad call, but in asking some officials I know about it, they don’t seem to find it that egregious considering the last minute of the bout.

Horrible way to not win - I won’t say lose here. Not every bad call we perceive is anti-American bias.

 

You say possible ineptitude, I say possible bias. The reason I say bias is because it is a huge decision to end a match like that. Somebody was determined

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The worst aspect of the decision (besides taking a finals spot from somebody who worked hard to get there) is that the decision reinforces one of the worst aspects of wrestling: The brick thrown at the end of the match. The Hail Mary Brick. In every one- or two-point match in the future, expect a brick at the end. Who knows, you might win the lotto! Even if the other wrestler is doing exactly what thousands of wrestlers have done before him or her. 

How can we beat the system? Start celebrating before time expires. If the "running away" is just the run up to a back flip, then what can the ref and judges do? I've seen lots of wrestlers celebrate before time has expired. Haven't seen them penalized the match for it, either. 

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3 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

 

You say possible ineptitude, I say possible bias. The reason I say bias is because it is a huge decision to end a match like that. Somebody was determined

If the ref was “determined” wouldn’t they have made the call without it needing to be challenged?

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