Offthemat Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: Meh... Not conspiracy theories. Just regular people trying to work through a pandemic like we've never seen: Efficacy of face masks Masks do work, to some degree, especially the higher end ones. How much did they work? The lower end ones... nowhere near 100% - that was clear. But it was also clear that it was something we could all do at a time when many felt helpless. It was a start. In other countries, when people feel like they are getting a cold, etc. they wear a mask to work/school so they don't infect others. That has been a custom since long before Covid. They work. closing things down At the beginning of the pandemic there was a huge discussion about "do we over-react, or do we under-react?" Either way, the naysayers will be pointing fingers at us afterward. It was a legitimate question. Most states chose to overreact and do more rather than less. Err on the side of caution. At the time, I was a big proponent of continuing with NCAA D1 Wrestling in Minneapolis. I later changed my mind. In hindsight, it probably would have been OK to hold the NCAA tournament. But things are different when there are more questions than answers. social distancing Social distancing works. It did then, and it does now. kids and schools I have close friends who are teachers. Keeping kids out of school did, in fact, hurt their progress. Which is something they and I were concerned about from the beginning. Did it help control the spread? Yes, it did, at least a tiny bit. But just like masks and social distancing - it's almost impossible to know how much or how little. Maybe much more - or not. origin of Covid This one got a lot of press on MSM... not sure I care much. Not sure we'll ever know. I doubt it. Not sure that it really matters. This was a legitimate "conspiracy theory" on the list. There were many theories. IMO, none of them provable, none of them terribly helpful. But there were theories. how Covid deaths were counted They were counted as best as the medical community could do given the circumstances. We're all imperfect people, living in imperfect conditions, with imperfect resources. Deaths were counted, and they were imperfect counts. Not sure that anyone should be surprised by that. "Conspiracy theories" did exist here too, about folks getting paid to lie, etc. Just talk w/o basis. These things were definitely topics of discussion - but only the last (2) had any roots in "conspiracy"... and the conspiracy portion wasn't terribly important or relevant to the bigger picture. So far behind. You should google for some up to date information. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, Offthemat said: So far behind. You should google for some up to date information. If you've got a point, make it - otherwise run along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: If you've got a point, make it - otherwise run along. Same point.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Offthemat said: Same point.. Really, seriously, I don't hate you. I don't even know you. But if you're going to post - you really should have a point. If your point is "read more google", then you don't have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I don’t hate you either. But for reasons only you can know, you argue with people about things you don’t know. Is woke Marxist? Is an AR15 an assault rifle? Does AR stand for assault rifle? I remember other cases but not the specifics. Then you try to grasp for credibility asking: does anyone take these guys seriously? It might be you that is not taken seriously because you’ve been shown to be wrong so often. My suggestion that you should google is because there is information out that shows you wrong on, in my estimation, 60% or more of your conspiracy theory list. I’m not going through it all, but masks are useless for aerosolized virus. This was known before covid. The only way you can begin to get better information will be to abandon those outlets that promised you collusion for over two years, or wait for a long time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, Offthemat said: I don’t hate you either. But for reasons only you can know, you argue with people about things you don’t know. Is woke Marxist? Is an AR15 an assault rifle? Does AR stand for assault rifle? I remember other cases but not the specifics. Then you try to grasp for credibility asking: does anyone take these guys seriously? It might be you that is not taken seriously because you’ve been shown to be wrong so often. My suggestion that you should google is because there is information out that shows you wrong on, in my estimation, 60% or more of your conspiracy theory list. I’m not going through it all, but masks are useless for aerosolized virus. This was known before covid. The only way you can begin to get better information will be to abandon those outlets that promised you collusion for over two years, or wait for a long time. Well - that was something. In an effort to stop your technique AKA "baffle with bullshit"... Let's take your questions one at a time: "Is woke Marxist?" "Woke" is just stupid. Moderates of both parties are in that camp - quit that already. "Is an AR15 an assault rifle?" The AR-15 is not a specific weapon, the name has been used for multiple weapons from the 50's to now. "Does AR stand for assault rifle?" This is a legitimate question (finally.) The Dictionary has a definition, the US Army has a different one. Given the lack of a definitive definition, I see it as a yes - it does. Yours may be different. That's cool w/me. In the US, we have that kind of freedom. We don't have to agree on everything. It's OK, comrade OTM. "does anyone take these guys seriously?" Your Abbot and Costello routine earlier was just too much. That was a clown show of the highest order. Oh - and that last point you made, which is DAF: "I’m not going through it all, but masks are useless for aerosolized virus." Again, you are DAF here Masks are absolutely useful for aerosolized viruses - you know that surgeons wear them in the OR. N95 masks are extremely effective - like 80%... sure, other masks are less effective. If you interest is to have a conversation - maybe stop with the piling of bullshit and instead bring up a topic at a time so we can discuss them one at a time. Maybe agree, maybe disagree, but nothing wrong with an honest conversation. If your point is to be a jerk - then keep doing what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Like I said, I don’t hate you and I’m not going to resort to name calling. I can tell you with confidence that the only filter that will work for an aerosolized virus will require a pump for you to breathe through. Surgeons wear masks to protect the patients, not themselves. Go read some more. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 14 hours ago, Plasmodium said: Let's just say I've sat in on my share of Bedminster press conferences. https://americasvoice.news/video/65964/?related=playlist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 58 minutes ago, Offthemat said: https://americasvoice.news/video/65964/?related=playlist Help me out. I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Honor Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 4 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: "Is an AR15 an assault rifle?" The AR-15 is not a specific weapon, the name has been used for multiple weapons from the 50's to now. "Does AR stand for assault rifle?" This is a legitimate question (finally.) The Dictionary has a definition, the US Army has a different one. Given the lack of a definitive definition, I see it as a yes - it does. Yours may be different. That's cool w/me. In the US, we have that kind of freedom. We don't have to agree on everything. It's OK, comrade OTM. lol ' you must agree with me b/c i dont know the difference and we are disagreeing' is quite the argument given the lack of a definitive definition.. um.... there is one. you just refuse to see it. and it's not a legit question. AR stands for armalite rifle its like BMW does not actually stand for big mechanical waste. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Honor Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 4 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: "I’m not going through it all, but masks are useless for aerosolized virus." Again, you are DAF here Masks are absolutely useful for aerosolized viruses - you know that surgeons wear them in the OR. N95 masks are extremely effective - like 80%... sure, other masks are less effective. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/#:~:text=Most obviously%2C they can act,face in 24% of procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Honor Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Why do surgeons wear masks in operating room? Surgical face masks (SFMs) provide a physical barrier between bacteria of oropharyngeal and nasopharyngeal origin and an open patient wound. Wearing a SFM in the OR is one of many long standing preventative practices, yet controversy exists as to the clinical effectiveness of SFMs in reducing the frequency of SSIs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Honor Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Do surgeons always wear masks during surgery? "Really, the surgeon might as well wear nothing on their face," she said. Still, the CDC recommends a mask in the operating room, citing long-standing tradition and the benefits of protecting nose and mouth from splashes of blood and other bodily fluids.Oct 5, 2009 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Honor Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/sep/10/pfizer-accused-of-holding-brazil-to-ransom-over-vaccine-contract-demands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Honor Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-02-23/held-to-ransom-pfizer-demands-governments-gamble-with-state-assets-to-secure-vaccine-deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 There will either be crickets from GWN, or he will start calling people names...funny how actual facts and proving him wrong works 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 This has been interesting reading. Deep Vein Thrombosis (blood clots) was an issue for sure with Covid vaccines. Was especially a problem for the AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines. Myocarditis (enlarged heart) was a real thing for Covid Vaccines for people aged 12-39. Found this info from a simple google search. I remember these issues as the pandemic was happening. But there were a lot of assurances that the risk was low. mspart 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 hours ago, mspart said: This has been interesting reading. Deep Vein Thrombosis (blood clots) was an issue for sure with Covid vaccines. Was especially a problem for the AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines. Myocarditis (enlarged heart) was a real thing for Covid Vaccines for people aged 12-39. Found this info from a simple google search. I remember these issues as the pandemic was happening. But there were a lot of assurances that the risk was low. mspart There can be a marked increase in the incidence of something, but still be a low risk. For example, in the study from the armed forces on myocarditis they found the risk to be low (23 cases from 2.8 million doses), but elevated relative to expectations for military receiving a second dose (19 from 0.5 million vs expectation of 0 to 10). From the study: "The observed number of male military members who experienced myocarditis after their second dose of mRNA vaccine, while relatively small, is substantially higher than the expected number." Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 What do those stats say about people who contracted the disease without vaccination? Incidence of myocarditis is much higher in unvaccinated people who get covid than vaccinated people. Death rate is 8x higher. List goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Brixton Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Plasmodium said: Incidence of myocarditis is much higher in unvaccinated people who get covid than vaccinated people. Death rate is 8x higher. List goes on. These are bullshit stats, just an FYI. Issues surrounding myocarditis from vaccination are for men under 40 receiving the mRNA vaccine and it typically occurs after the second (or booster? LOL) shot. Men of this age are at no risk from virus-induced myocarditis or any other long-term sequelae. Any study claiming that virus-induced myocarditis is greater than vaccine-induced is grouping all ages and sexes together in a way to diminish the obvious signal that occurs with young men. There are lies, damn lies and Covid statistics and it seems like you didn't take the time to look into the information you are citing. Here is a layman's explanation with a link to the original study: https://sensiblemed.substack.com/p/our-new-analysis-of-myocarditis-after Mandating a vaccine to a cohort where there is a known (albeit small?) risk while the benefit is unknown, and likely small, is unethical. And the death rate is 8x higher? Come on, even the MAGAs can see through this obviously false statistic. Any report claiming that the death-rate is 8x higher is using hopelessly confounded data. The two groups being compared are obviously not equivalent and these types of studies are dismissed out of hand by honest, serious people. There is no evidence of a reduction in all-cause mortality when you pool the data for mRNA vaccine clinical studies, but there is for the viral-based vaccines. So did Bronny's heart issues stem from vaccination? Who knows? It would be difficult to know without an invasive work-up. But I can tell you one thing, if I were an administrator at USC responsible for their Covid vaccination policy, I wouldn't want to be taking a call from LeBron right about now... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, Theo Brixton said: These are bullshit stats, just an FYI. Issues surrounding myocarditis from vaccination are for men under 40 receiving the mRNA vaccine and it typically occurs after the second (or booster? LOL) shot. Men of this age are at no risk from virus-induced myocarditis or any other long-term sequelae. Any study claiming that virus-induced myocarditis is greater than vaccine-induced is grouping all ages and sexes together in a way to diminish the obvious signal that occurs with young men. There are lies, damn lies and Covid statistics and it seems like you didn't take the time to look into the information you are citing. Here is a layman's explanation with a link to the original study: https://sensiblemed.substack.com/p/our-new-analysis-of-myocarditis-after Mandating a vaccine to a cohort where there is a known (albeit small?) risk while the benefit is unknown, and likely small, is unethical. And the death rate is 8x higher? Come on, even the MAGAs can see through this obviously false statistic. Any report claiming that the death-rate is 8x higher is using hopelessly confounded data. The two groups being compared are obviously not equivalent and these types of studies are dismissed out of hand by honest, serious people. There is no evidence of a reduction in all-cause mortality when you pool the data for mRNA vaccine clinical studies, but there is for the viral-based vaccines. So did Bronny's heart issues stem from vaccination? Who knows? It would be difficult to know without an invasive work-up. But I can tell you one thing, if I were an administrator at USC responsible for their Covid vaccination policy, I wouldn't want to be taking a call from LeBron right about now... “Follow the science. But, wait, not that science!” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWhiteNorth Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 15 hours ago, Bigbrog said: There will either be crickets from GWN, or he will start calling people names...funny how actual facts and proving him wrong works That's my cue... "You're a moron insect!" Hey - Bigbrog, how'd I do? Didn't know if I should do crickets or names, so I did both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 10 hours ago, Theo Brixton said: These are bullshit stats, just an FYI. Issues surrounding myocarditis from vaccination are for men under 40 receiving the mRNA vaccine and it typically occurs after the second (or booster? LOL) shot. Men of this age are at no risk from virus-induced myocarditis or any other long-term sequelae. Any study claiming that virus-induced myocarditis is greater than vaccine-induced is grouping all ages and sexes together in a way to diminish the obvious signal that occurs with young men. There are lies, damn lies and Covid statistics and it seems like you didn't take the time to look into the information you are citing. Here is a layman's explanation with a link to the original study: https://sensiblemed.substack.com/p/our-new-analysis-of-myocarditis-after Mandating a vaccine to a cohort where there is a known (albeit small?) risk while the benefit is unknown, and likely small, is unethical. And the death rate is 8x higher? Come on, even the MAGAs can see through this obviously false statistic. Any report claiming that the death-rate is 8x higher is using hopelessly confounded data. The two groups being compared are obviously not equivalent and these types of studies are dismissed out of hand by honest, serious people. There is no evidence of a reduction in all-cause mortality when you pool the data for mRNA vaccine clinical studies, but there is for the viral-based vaccines. So did Bronny's heart issues stem from vaccination? Who knows? It would be difficult to know without an invasive work-up. But I can tell you one thing, if I were an administrator at USC responsible for their Covid vaccination policy, I wouldn't want to be taking a call from LeBron right about now... None of what I said is BS. Bronny James doesn't even have myocarditis. That is probably a layman's explanation written by a layman, certainly not a peer reviewed article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: That's my cue... "You're a moron insect!" Hey - Bigbrog, how'd I do? Didn't know if I should do crickets or names, so I did both. 6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: That's my cue... "You're a moron insect!" Hey - Bigbrog, how'd I do? Didn't know if I should do crickets or names, so I did both. So are you calling yourself a moron insect or are you calling bigbrog a moron insect? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Paul158 said: So are you calling yourself a moron insect or are you calling bigbrog a moron insect? LOL...great question! And once again I see he can't respond to the actual topic when given facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Ramirez Walnut, California Class of 2025 Committed to Oklahoma State Projected Weight: 125, 133
Landon Robideau St. Michael-Albertville, Minnesota Class of 2025 Committed to Oklahoma State Projected Weight: 149, 157
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