DJT Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 Just now, LJB said: He used to post at themat.com yes? I believe so.
Wrestleknownothing Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, LJB said: He used to post at themat.com yes? Yes, he DID. But I don't REMEMBER much about him. 1 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
DJT Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) I just don’t get what is so hard to understand about coach-athlete relationships being strictly prohibited, and whether it was consensual, isn’t even a factor to consider. It does not matter in the SafeSport rules. Trying to mitigate the seriousness of the infraction based on them being consenting adults is asinine. Furthermore… it’s a felony for teachers/ coaches to have relationships with 18 year old students/ athletes, even if they are “consenting adults”. It’s a felony for a prison guard to have a relationship with an inmate, even if they are “consenting adults”. It’s a felony for a psychiatrist to have a relationship with his patient, even if they are “consenting adults”. Why? Because there cannot be true consent with the existence of such an imbalance of power. Edited June 13, 2023 by DJT 3
ugarles Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 On 6/11/2023 at 11:15 PM, Husker_Du said: Hey all, I zapped the first Final X thread, which went totally off the rails. i've been away from the board for a bit and i was hoping to read some discussion of the event. i understand why you did what you did but i wish you'd used a scalpel instead of a hand grenade. 1
DJT Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, ugarles said: i've been away from the board for a bit and i was hoping to read some discussion of the event. i understand why you did what you did but i wish you'd used a scalpel instead of a hand grenade. Didn’t miss much… Gilman lost, everyone hates TurdBerger for head butting Zain, Yianni lost, Flo’s streaming cut out multiple times, JB lost, people called Zahid fat, Gable didn’t serial crush Paris quite as badly, Braunagel broke Vera and he didn’t show for match 3, everyone hates Pyles, Nick Lee>Spencer Lee, Flo’s streaming cut out more, J’den was on crutches… but at least he made weight this time, Adeline made her 23rd straight world team… other than that, Flo’s streaming cut out. 5 3
LJB Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ugarles said: i've been away from the board for a bit and i was hoping to read some discussion of the event. i understand why you did what you did but i wish you'd used a scalpel instead of a hand grenade. The grenade was lobbed way before willie started worrying about about his compensation… Edited June 13, 2023 by LJB
Husker_Du Posted June 13, 2023 Author Posted June 13, 2023 3 hours ago, ugarles said: i've been away from the board for a bit and i was hoping to read some discussion of the event. i understand why you did what you did but i wish you'd used a scalpel instead of a hand grenade. i understand that. however, the thread was a mess. and not a good look for anyone. additionally, i didn't catch the thread in real time. there was way too much to prune and frankly, i ain't got time for that. it needed to die, imo. it was way more about the topic it turned into rather than about Final X. TBD
ugarles Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 25 minutes ago, Husker_Du said: i understand that. however, the thread was a mess. and not a good look for anyone. additionally, i didn't catch the thread in real time. there was way too much to prune and frankly, i ain't got time for that. it needed to die, imo. it was way more about the topic it turned into rather than about Final X. i get it. but i wouldn't be opposed to someone DM'ing me and giving me the two sentence version of what i missed, without the contentious editorializing.
LJB Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 the nut shell... a well known coach has openly violated one of the main tenets of safe sport by having a sexual relationship with one of his wrestlers... openly i will add... this well known coach has had multiple safe sport reports filed against him... a well known poster who has a daughter that is a WORLD CHAMP lost his shit on this bbs saturday night after dealing with 8 months of USAW's total refusal of any action... do we care about the athletes or not? 1
wrestle87 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 5 hours ago, Husker_Du said: it was way more about the topic it turned into rather than about Final X. Don’t disagree with your decision to trim considering that you have to prune as you see fit ultimately, but at it’s base, it was about something that one portion of the audience saw and was distraught at while watching Final X. 1 hour ago, LJB said: do we care about the athletes or not? I couldn’t agree more. The wellbeing in life of current and future athletes is infinitely more meaningful than anything anyone will ever accomplish in a sport. The fact that the institutions governing our sport are in anyway bogged down in prevarication, hemming and hawing, passing of bucks, or anything other than exacting action to protect those that need protecting does not pass the smell test. I also want to be clear, I am not in anyway interested in putting a cart before a horse, but there needs to be a far more robust mechanism in place to handle such situations. Maybe it means moving away from complete reliance on university facilities…universities don’t have a stellar track record of being forthcoming or morally upstanding on anything that affects their public image.
pokemonster Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, LJB said: someone tell MSU158 that anyone that has a USAW card has to go through the safesport... USAW can pull a members card... Lol, I saw that too. Buddy is digging himself a pretty big hole in that argument... Edited June 13, 2023 by pokemonster
1032004 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, pokemonster said: Lol, I saw that too. Buddy is digging himself a pretty big hole in that argument... I was kinda following him until he said something along the lines of "even if it's confirmed there was a sexual relationship, I don't know if he needs to be fired." I think the main debate here is there were some implications of possible criminal charges, etc. If it was a consensual relationship among adults, I don't see why there would need to be police involved. But he absolutely should be fired.
pokemonster Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, 1032004 said: I was kinda following him until he said something along the lines of "even if it's confirmed there was a sexual relationship, I don't know if he needs to be fired." I think the main debate here is there were some implications of possible criminal charges, etc. If it was a consensual relationship among adults, I don't see why there would need to be police involved. But he absolutely should be fired. Same... He doesn't seem to understand that consent cannot be given when there's a power imbalance such as one that is blatantly apparent in a coach - athlete situation. I'm on board with you.
LJB Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 it seems like a very simple concept, but, average is average... 1
Formally140 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 He kept comparing it to the cases of coming subordinates at corporate or law offices sleeping with superiors and how it often works out more than people think. First, even then one has to have the rules in place. Second, NOT the same as coach/athlete Third, when a coach is involved.. even “if” they were “adults” when it “happened”. There are things that could have changed the dynamics before that. Did that happen here? I’m not enough caught up on details to be sure. I know other situations where it has..
LJB Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 as stated previously... i have no idea what the safesport reporting centered around in any of the ones against the coach... all i know is that one of them was not physical in nature... but... when a coach is having a sexual relationship with their athlete it simply can not not affect the entire room... and the retaliatory tactics that have been employed during this are disgusting and explicitly stated that they will not be tolerated either... and yet... USAW does nothing... what else are they not doing? who else would want to come forward with any other shenanigans knowing that USAW will not uphold there own guidelines? this is the major problem as i see it...
1032004 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Formally140 said: He kept comparing it to the cases of coming subordinates at corporate or law offices sleeping with superiors and how it often works out more than people think. First, even then one has to have the rules in place. Second, NOT the same as coach/athlete Third, when a coach is involved.. even “if” they were “adults” when it “happened”. There are things that could have changed the dynamics before that. Did that happen here? I’m not enough caught up on details to be sure. I know other situations where it has.. I actually think a manager/subordinate is a fair comparison. And the manager should absolutely be fired in those cases too...
LJB Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, 1032004 said: I actually think a manager/subordinate is a fair comparison. And the manager should absolutely be fired in those cases too... it is similar enough on the surface... but... IMHO type of stuff... when we are dealing with high level athletes and the kind of demands needed for any real success and psychoses that are involved in these types of personalities then everything gets amplified exponentially...
wrestle87 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 36 minutes ago, LJB said: this is the major problem as i see it... @LJB Serious question for consideration, does it matter at all that “he who shall not be named” happens to have passed through the most storied programs in the sport and has toes to many of the unannointed royal families of the sport?
LJB Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 Just now, wrestle87 said: @LJB Serious question for consideration, does it matter at all that “he who shall not be named” happens to have passed through the most storied programs in the sport and has toes to many of the unannointed royal families of the sport? you tell me... but... i do not really think so specifically... with that being said, the community is so small that all of them have ties to somebody... and hardly any of them could make the same sort of financial living outside of wrestling... so... everyone is scared to speak up...
pokemonster Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 44 minutes ago, LJB said: and the retaliatory tactics that have been employed during this are disgusting and explicitly stated that they will not be tolerated either... and yet... USAW does nothing... Are they legal retaliatory tactics, i.e. defamation / libel lawsuit?
wrestle87 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 Man, this is depressing. What does it take for integrity and caring for others to win out over such astonishing levels of self interest. I thought that, of all sports, ours would be able to make that happen… 1
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