How should the IOC treat individual Russian and Belarusian athletes at the 2024 Olympics?

[WrestlingRasta]

18 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I understand that. I think most of us do.

It is a difficult thing to put in perspective. The argument that "the government is the problem, not the athletes" is problematic, because the athletes are representing their country and its government in competition. Part of their role is to bring success and glory to their country and leaders.

The country, its people, its government, and its athletes are all inextricably bound together. A government cannot act without having to answer to its people to some degree. An athlete cannot win without bringing glory to their country to some degree. And so on...

I would very much like to see a path that would allow Russian wrestlers to compete. I just don't see one.

 

My opinion, what you are speaking of is the fundamental connect, where there should be disconnect. ‘Government’ should not be anywhere in there. Not as far as the Olympics (and level competition) is concerned. I realize that that’s ‘should be’ and not necessarily always is. None the less, the athletes represent the people of their nation. And I think we can all agree governments don’t always represent the will of their nations peoples. I can tell you with certainty this war is not the will of the people of Russia, and while I agree there has to be accountability, withholding the athletes is a much much bigger punishment to the athletes, and the pride the people of Russia take in their success, than it is to the individuals perpetrating what’s going on over there. 

[Mike Parrish]

When they have a full quad with zero WADA violations, let's talk.

[pokemonster]

Quick question on Sadulaev... Most consider the Russian athletes to have been part of a state-sponsored doping program, but I have NEVER heard Sadulaev's name in reference to this. Why does he seem to get a pass when everyone else is assumed to be guilty? Is it assumed that he abstained from it? 

[bnwtwg]

6 hours ago, pokemonster said:

Quick question on Sadulaev... Most consider the Russian athletes to have been part of a state-sponsored doping program, but I have NEVER heard Sadulaev's name in reference to this. Why does he seem to get a pass when everyone else is assumed to be guilty? Is it assumed that he abstained from it? 

Some people use the phrase "that's like the pot calling the kettle black."
Other people use the phrase "we don't want to accuse the Russian 97 of juicing because look at our 86."

[Theo Brixton]

9 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Some people use the phrase "that's like the pot calling the kettle black."
Other people use the phrase "we don't want to accuse the Russian 97 of juicing because look at our 86."

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 4/27/2023 at 12:42 AM, Theo Brixton said:

 

Iran's 86 used to be a 74, too!  

[Plasmodium]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:04 AM, pokemonster said:

Quick question on Sadulaev... Most consider the Russian athletes to have been part of a state-sponsored doping program, but I have NEVER heard Sadulaev's name in reference to this. Why does he seem to get a pass when everyone else is assumed to be guilty? Is it assumed that he abstained from it? 

He doesn't have any of the characteristic tell-tales, for one.

[Plasmodium]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Iran's 86 used to be a 74, too!  

Actually, 70.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Actually, 70.

As a senior?

[Plasmodium]

23 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

As a senior?

Yazdani won 70 kg in Vegas/2015, leaving James Green amongst others in his wake.  Edit: He won silver rather than gold.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Plasmodium

[AgaveMaria]

Your country is banned, you don't compete. Very simple solution.

[pokemonster]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:42 PM, Plasmodium said:

He doesn't have any of the characteristic tell-tales, for one.

Aside from man-handling and being stronger than every opponent he faces, who we all know are on the juice. Can an all natty guy really do that against guys who are knowingly on PEDs?

I agree though, he doesn't look like the typical "roided-out" guy a la Boltukaev when he beat Snyder. 

[Paul158]

On 3/30/2023 at 11:52 PM, Ragu said:

Firm believer in if you want to be the best beat the best. Without Russia, winning a gold seems cheap

Attacking a sovereign country for no reason whatsoever is a great deal cheaper. Murdering innocent women and children could be considered criminal. ( also cheap} 

[Paul158]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:54 PM, billyhoyle said:

Do you really think the 1984 Olympics were as competitive as 1976 or 1988?

It doesn't matter . You wrestle who ever comes. It does not matter if another country is there or not.

[Mike Parrish]

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:33 PM, pokemonster said:

Aside from man-handling and being stronger than every opponent he faces, who we all know are on the juice. Can an all natty guy really do that against guys who are knowingly on PEDs?

I agree though, he doesn't look like the typical "roided-out" guy a la Boltukaev when he beat Snyder. 

Either does Lance Armstrong.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Cherkov]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Either does Lance Armstrong.

Elephant in the room, how far back do you have to go. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 hours ago, Cherkov said:

Elephant in the room, how far back do you have to go. 

It has nothing to do with far back anyone goes.  There is a false assumption that you can tell what someone juicing looks like.  Lance Armstrong was on endogenous testosterone, HGH, and a ton of other PEDs.  He didn't look like a classic "juicer", right?

And I only have to go as far back as "Icarus"...