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The biggest winner of NCAA Championships weekend: Rock Harrison


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1 hour ago, Major Kong said:

I like him but he was trying to excuse the ref for his lame call on the Alirez backs.

 

1 hour ago, skandar said:

This is the rules expert right? He’s an idiot. It was embarrassing trying to listen to him explain how Alirez shouldn’t have gotten a 4 count.

First of all he didn’t even say it “shouldn’t have” gotten 4.  But he’s right: a main question is when did Alirez establish control and I’d agree it wasn’t really until he stepped over.   Still looks like it was probably 4 after that (which Rock didn’t really argue against), but it was awfully close.

7:55 in this video is a good view IMO when Burroughs counts after Rock says he had control.

 

 

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He was great.  The schmuck part on the Alvarez call was Gibbons saying that the ref should not have repositioned and when the ref did the ref put his hand down and that was the four count.  No. The ref counted three and then stopped his count.  Very easy to see.  Call was changed after review.  Not complicated.

Oh Schmuck part number 2 … the length of the review!!!! 

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They said he was a DI wrestler. Anyone know where he wrestled and if he was any good?

Rock was a multiple time National Preps place winner in HS (might have been a champ / I don’t have it in front of me) and he went on to wrestle at Virginia.
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Jason Bryant hasn't worked here since 2008. 

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16 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

He was great.  The schmuck part on the Alvarez call was Gibbons saying that the ref should not have repositioned and when the ref did the ref put his hand down and that was the four count.  No. The ref counted three and then stopped his count.  Very easy to see.  Call was changed after review.  Not complicated.

Oh Schmuck part number 2 … the length of the review!!!! 

One of the dudes also seemed to think  that he could get 3 NF, and questioned whether Alirez “lost control” at the end of the exchange…

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7 minutes ago, Pipewrench said:

Jordan B does a fantastic job.  Just sayin'.

Agree.

I like Rock, he's very good. But, IMO, JB was the best commentator. Gibby brings a lot of experience to the table, and Sparks has unique energy.

As I had mentioned before, I don't know what changed - but Quint's post match interviews were really good this year. In years past, they were cringe awful.

If I had to pick one gripe, it'd be them doing random interviews while good matches were going on. At minimum, they need to do a split screen so viewers can follow the action while the talking heads talk.

All in all, they still have work to do - but are moving in the right direction.

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27 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

One of the dudes also seemed to think  that he could get 3 NF, and questioned whether Alirez “lost control” at the end of the exchange…

Yeah, that was the "sideline" guy. Seemed they were embarrassed to correct him, but that's what professionals are supposed to do - put the audience above being polite to colleagues.

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I was thoroughly annoyed with Rock’s overuse of “control is felt” but he must have been told about it because he fixed it in the later sessions. I distinctly remember him talking about control at one point and you could tell he wanted to say it but he got himself to use other verbiage. So kudos to him for making adjustments like that. Overall, he did a great job.

On the other hand, I am a HUGE JB fan and have really enjoyed his commentary in the past, but I do have to admit he was off his A game this weekend. Still did a good job and I hope they bring him back, but wasn’t his best performance

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6 hours ago, skandar said:

This is the rules expert right? He’s an idiot. It was embarrassing trying to listen to him explain how Alirez shouldn’t have gotten a 4 count.

Yeah...he's great in short spurts, but he's just too much. 

I still like Sparks-sans the resilite nonsense, Gibbons(easily the best IMO) and then Burroughs if you're lucky enough, Robles is great. Dake's funny. I think Cox has done it before as well, right? 

Kessenich or whatever...he's the women who's on the sidelines for the football games. A COUPLE times it was useful having him there, ie, Mekhi Lewis with the fingers. Though...he should really have gotten out of the way so the trainer could set the damn thing after the match. 

 

But Rock is fired up, he's enthusiastic, but he seems to just argue about shit for no reason. "Control is SUB-JEC-TIVE here!" Yes...we've got that. There is some discretion by the refs. 

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1 hour ago, Dark Energy said:

He was great.  The schmuck part on the Alvarez call was Gibbons saying that the ref should not have repositioned and when the ref did the ref put his hand down and that was the four count.  No. The ref counted three and then stopped his count.  Very easy to see. 

1) Who is Alvarez? 

2) Gibbons didn't say the ref should not have repositioned.

3) Nothing was easy to see and the referee made several errors in the sequence.  It is very difficult to figure out what he was doing.

First the referee was seemingly confused the wrestlers colors.  He awards the first set of NF as 2 to green.  These were supposed to be for Woods who was red.  Then they get to their feet and he says still green.  He is seemingly still confused as I assume he means to say that Woods is still in control since he has that body lock, but again Woods is red.

Next comes the throw and he holds up two for red for the takedown and starts a visual count.  Only problem is that it should be two for Green - Alirez is green.  He never puts the two fingers down on the red hand he used to award the takedown so it is unclear later whether he is holding two NF or just still has them out from the takedown.  He counts two visually with swipes then the third visual swipe comes albeit slower than the first two.  Then he puts that hand down on the mat to balance as he repositions himself.  Then after he takes he weight off that hand he looks to be winding up for a 4th swipe but stops as the position has changed.

It's unclear whether the official intended to stop the count before the reposition because he thought NF criteria has been broken or he intended to just get a better look and was using poor technique.  I believe this to be Gibbons's point.  In real time the broadcast team is confused and initially Rock Harrison says 4 NF for Alirez.

Watching it back several times, it seems that at some point after the reposition the two fingers on the red hand the ref has had up since awarded the takedown become two NF points he's holding and he saying something like "you've got two."  However he doesn't immediately award them and holds them after NF criteria is broken and probably the lock too.  He finally awards them after he calls action out of bounds and only now does he get the colors straight changing the points to his green hand.

I completely agree with Gibbons here.  The rule requires a verbal count and visual "whenever possible." The verbal count is required and the visual count is not.  It is fine for the referee to reposition himself to get a better look but if the wrestlers position has not changed the verbal count should continue throughout the repositioning even if a visual count is not possible.  It appeared to me that the referee intended to continue the count after repositioning and not start a new count and this would have resulted in a longer 4th swipe.  That said decoupling the verbal count from the swipes on the fly in a high stress situation is not easy.  

So while it is easy to see the visual count had stopped that does not say why it was stopped (poor technique causing the count to be delayed - Gibbons's point or change in NF criteria) or if a verbal count continued.

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Woops, Alirez.  Yes, I noticed the ref did not do well with the point signaling.

 

I recall Gibbons questioning the ref and his repositioning.  Something about putting hand down was four count.  Not Gibbons?  And then questioning why the ref moved to where he did when he should have shifted the other way.  Doesn’t matter really.  Ref counted three and the stopped.  That is what he only awarded two backs.  Thought the count stop at that time was reasonable since the angle of Woods’ back seems to go higher than 45 degrees.
 

I could see questioning when the count should have started.  When did Alirez gain control .. that is the key. When it ended seemed about right.

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7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 

First of all he didn’t even say it “shouldn’t have” gotten 4.  But he’s right: a main question is when did Alirez establish control and I’d agree it wasn’t really until he stepped over.   Still looks like it was probably 4 after that (which Rock didn’t really argue against), but it was awfully close.

7:55 in this video is a good view IMO when Burroughs counts after Rock says he had control.

 

 

I don't see 4 seconds at 45 degrees or less.  The rule is 45, correct?  It seems to me like in many matches they don't call it the way it's written, in other words they often do swipes even when the angle has gotten above 45.  This was a good example of that to me (with respect to the replay decision).  I am a fan of Gibbons but I thought he was wrong here.  I thought that Rivera did a good job on this and shouldn't have been overruled.  I think that 45 may not be a good rule, but it's the rule, and I think it's not faithfully enforced.

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2 hours ago, dragit said:

I don't see 4 seconds at 45 degrees or less.  The rule is 45, correct?  It seems to me like in many matches they don't call it the way it's written, in other words they often do swipes even when the angle has gotten above 45.  This was a good example of that to me (with respect to the replay decision).  I am a fan of Gibbons but I thought he was wrong here.  I thought that Rivera did a good job on this and shouldn't have been overruled.  I think that 45 may not be a good rule, but it's the rule, and I think it's not faithfully enforced.

Yes, 45 degrees.  12:20 in the video I posted is a good angle with a bigger clock to compare.  If I had to pick I’d say it was 4, but I’m not sure the requirement to reverse challenged calls…is it like the NFL where it’s supposed to be overwhelming evidence or whatever?  If that’s the case I don’t think it was enough to overturn, and I presume deciding that was why it took so long.

I initially thought Rivera’s hand movement towards the end was an attempt to signify he broke 45, but I’m not sure, as @fishbane alluded to, it probably looks more like he was winding up to swipe but changed his mind.    

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4 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

I was thoroughly annoyed with Rock’s overuse of “control is felt” but he must have been told about it because he fixed it in the later sessions. I distinctly remember him talking about control at one point and you could tell he wanted to say it but he got himself to use other verbiage. So kudos to him for making adjustments like that. Overall, he did a great job.

On the other hand, I am a HUGE JB fan and have really enjoyed his commentary in the past, but I do have to admit he was off his A game this weekend. Still did a good job and I hope they bring him back, but wasn’t his best performance

JB agree

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