Who is the worst great wrestler?

[Hammerlock3]

Inspired by the favorite wrestler on team you hate topic.

I say Mark Perry. Couldn't handfight, pretty much just dove or headlocked on his feet. Known as a scrambler, I think his scrambles really don't hold up very well even compared to scramblers of his day, if he hadn't ducked askren he would have been pinned (national duals). Best on top where he was pretty one dimensional, horrible on bottom which leads nicely into pointing out that he quit a lot. I'd say Chris was considerably less athletic and significantly better at wrestling. 

[El Luchador]

Dylan Ness. 

[Hammerlock3]

9 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Dylan Ness. 

I don't think he makes the cut on "great", and unlike perry I don't think he has a oversized reputation. Though you could make a good argument based on the fact that he has more notoriety than his brother who I consider to be better, so maybe you're on to something.

[El Luchador]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I don't think he makes the cut on "great", and unlike perry I don't think he has a oversized reputation. Though you could make a good argument based on the fact that he has more notoriety than his brother who I consider to be better, so maybe you're on to something.

He was a 2x NCAA finalist. 4x AA. That is a pretty significant accomplishment. With all the stupid stuff he would do on a regular basis he shouldn't have even been a starter.

[Hammerlock3]

37 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

He was a 2x NCAA finalist. 4x AA. That is a pretty significant accomplishment. With all the stupid stuff he would do on a regular basis he shouldn't have even been a starter.

Well I should have set "great" criteria, so fair enough.

I didn't know he had the reputation of being a problem, I had heard he struggled mentally a lot, are you reluctant to mention what he did? I personally try not to mention specific stuff unless its public knowledge or I'm absolutely sure its true so "no" is a fair answer.    

Edited October 8 by Hammerlock3

[Simpleman424]

Can I say Beau Bartlett? Maybe it’s just because Jesse’s style but I couldn’t stand watching him wrestle…I knew he was great but he just didn’t do anything or seem to really try. Always bothered me…

[PookieNacui]

2 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Inspired by the favorite wrestler on team you hate topic.

I say Mark Perry. Couldn't handfight, pretty much just dove or headlocked on his feet. Known as a scrambler, I think his scrambles really don't hold up very well even compared to scramblers of his day, if he hadn't ducked askren he would have been pinned (national duals). Best on top where he was pretty one dimensional, horrible on bottom which leads nicely into pointing out that he quit a lot. I'd say Chris was considerably less athletic and significantly better at wrestling. 

Chris Perry was a multi-sport athlete in high school, had like 3,000 yards rushing and was playing varsity his freshman year at a 6A high school.  He’s a great athlete.  I think Mark Sr. even said on a podcast a few years ago that he was the bigger, more athletic of the two.

 

184 lately has some guys that I think are great at never losing and horrible at doing anything offensively

[BruceyB]

If the criteria for great is 2x NCAA champion then the first two that come to mind for me are Jesse Delgado and Dean Heil. The reasoning for Dean is obvious. See the implementation of neutral danger. 

Jesse Delgado was another guy that would seemingly get outwrestled but still manage to get his hand-raised. I maintain that I've never seen an NCAA finals match where I felt more confident that the better wrestler lost than Delgado vs Nahshon.

I think for this topic you have to think of guys that were extremely dependent on one move, and not something standard like a high crotch or double. I'm curious to see what others can come up with.

[BruceyB]

7 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

Can I say Beau Bartlett? Maybe it’s just because Jesse’s style but I couldn’t stand watching him wrestle…I knew he was great but he just didn’t do anything or seem to really try. Always bothered me…

The day Bartlett graduated I let out a great sigh of relief. Bartlett, Lewan, and Cam Amine all excelled in the art of making every match they wrestled unwatchable.

[dragit]

19 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

If the criteria for great is 2x NCAA champion then the first two that come to mind for me are Jesse Delgado and Dean Heil. The reasoning for Dean is obvious. See the implementation of neutral danger. 

Jesse Delgado was another guy that would seemingly get outwrestled but still manage to get his hand-raised. I maintain that I've never seen an NCAA finals match where I felt more confident that the better wrestler lost than Delgado vs Nahshon.

I think for this topic you have to think of guys that were extremely dependent on one move, and not something standard like a high crotch or double. I'm curious to see what others can come up with.

The crazy thing about Delgado is that the year before the Garrett match he was an aggressive attacker. Then after he won his first title he went into a shell.  IMar similar thing.  Hmmm, what was common between them?  Mark Perry!  Full circle!

[jdw21]

Totally agree with Bartlett, Lewan, and Heil.  I’ll throw Fix in the mix, no pun intended.  Parallel riding, legs, neutral defense…no much offense.

[BruceyB]

3 minutes ago, jdw21 said:

Totally agree with Bartlett, Lewan, and Heil.  I’ll throw Fix in the mix, no pun intended.  Parallel riding, legs, neutral defense…no much offense.

Am I mistaken or was that mostly just 7th year Fix? At least in my mind he was a fun watch earlier on in his career with a slide-by, inside trip, and leg attacks as well. By the end though.. oof. It was a hard watch and he was hard to root for wrestling that way.. The Desanto photo is an all-timer though.

[Gus]

47 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Am I mistaken or was that mostly just 7th year Fix? At least in my mind he was a fun watch earlier on in his career with a slide-by, inside trip, and leg attacks as well. By the end though.. oof. It was a hard watch and he was hard to root for wrestling that way.. The Desanto photo is an all-timer though.

I think that is revisionist history about Fix in the original post. Fix was solid in every position. 

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

The day Bartlett graduated I let out a great sigh of relief. Bartlett, Lewan, and Cam Amine all excelled in the art of making every match they wrestled unwatchable.

I think gotta put my foot down on those guys being labeled "great"

[Hammerlock3]

56 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Am I mistaken or was that mostly just 7th year Fix? At least in my mind he was a fun watch earlier on in his career with a slide-by, inside trip, and leg attacks as well. By the end though.. oof. It was a hard watch and he was hard to root for wrestling that way.. The Desanto photo is an all-timer though.

Yes Fix was very much worth watching for the first decade of his college career. Not so great towards the end.

[Tyler Perry]

2 hours ago, jdw21 said:

Totally agree with Bartlett, Lewan, and Heil.  I’ll throw Fix in the mix, no pun intended.  Parallel riding, legs, neutral defense…no much offense.

I disagree with all of these. All 3 were excellent 

[Tyler Perry]

I don’t think boring means bad.

 

anyway. Cohlton Schultz 

[El Luchador]

8 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Well I should have set "great" criteria, so fair enough.

I didn't know he had the reputation of being a problem, I had heard he struggled mentally a lot, are you reluctant to mention what he did? I personally try not to mention specific stuff unless its public knowledge or I'm absolutely sure its true so "no" is a fair answer.    

The stupid stuff  I'm referring to was on the mat. He actually succeeded by doing what shouldn't work. 

[MoveCountermove]

8 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

Can I say Beau Bartlett? Maybe it’s just because Jesse’s style but I couldn’t stand watching him wrestle…I knew he was great but he just didn’t do anything or seem to really try. Always bothered me…

Marc Anthony McGowan comes to mind, though I admittedly only really watched him at NCAAs

[MoveCountermove]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

The day Bartlett graduated I let out a great sigh of relief. Bartlett, Lewan, and Cam Amine all excelled in the art of making every match they wrestled unwatchable.

I griped about this every single time Lewan and Cam would take the mat, and still maintain that this is a form being taught to the wrestlers at U of M. Have heard it referred to as Kevin Jackson’s teachings by people who would be more in the know than myself. How best can you waste 7 minutes and score as little as possible, but also score more than your opponent? Very frustrating

Edited October 8 by MoveCountermove

[Simpleman424]

7 minutes ago, MoveCountermove said:

Marc Anthony McGowan comes to mind, though I admittedly only really watched him at NCAAs

Yea I don’t think he’s really made the criteria of great just yet, although he was a blue chipper coming in to college. If I remember correctly there was a LOT of familiarity going into that match dating back to high school and that’s why both were so cautious. 

[MoveCountermove]

33 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

Yea I don’t think he’s really made the criteria of great just yet, although he was a blue chipper coming in to college. If I remember correctly there was a LOT of familiarity going into that match dating back to high school and that’s why both were so cautious. 

Yeah I was just bringing up the comparison, not suggesting he meets the criteria. And I have heard that quip about familiarity from half a dozen sources at this point at least

[jchapman]

12 hours ago, BruceyB said:

If the criteria for great is 2x NCAA champion then the first two that come to mind for me are Jesse Delgado and Dean Heil. The reasoning for Dean is obvious. See the implementation of neutral danger. 

Jesse Delgado was another guy that would seemingly get outwrestled but still manage to get his hand-raised. I maintain that I've never seen an NCAA finals match where I felt more confident that the better wrestler lost than Delgado vs Nahshon.

I think for this topic you have to think of guys that were extremely dependent on one move, and not something standard like a high crotch or double. I'm curious to see what others can come up with.

2Xer Tony Nelson was just a bear of a man who had the parallel spiral ride of death.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

I get really, really frustrated watching Antrell. He can obviously do some amazing stuff but seemingly chooses to be passive and conservative most of the time. 

This doesn't really fit the criteria of the original post but I felt like RBY became less dynamic and fun to watch his junior, and, especially, senior year

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Does Pat Downey belong on this list? He tried very hard to convince people he was an all timer after he beat the destroyer of worlds