1032004 Posted October 7 Posted October 7 Isn’t Russia not that great at Greco anymore either? Is that USAWrestling’s fault too?
LJB Posted October 7 Posted October 7 18 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Isn’t Russia not that great at Greco anymore either? Is that USAWrestling’s fault too? how long have you been working on that banger of a question???
Hammerlock3 Posted October 7 Posted October 7 i keep checking to see if something happened, but its just LJB being a smug loser. Just let him do it alone. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
LJB Posted October 7 Posted October 7 1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said: i keep checking to see if something happened, but its just LJB being a smug loser. Just let him do it alone. i second this anonymous forum nerd who keeps coming back to comment on a thread about something she doesn't even appreciate, like, or follow...
juniorvarsity Posted October 7 Posted October 7 On 10/6/2026 at 11:35 AM, LJB said: no... another anonynmous forum nerd hiding behind a screen name is constantly just making up shit to fit a narrative that feels comfortable to them and they have no clue about anything... i just once would like a legitimate answer to the question, but, so far it has been ignored every time because the only answer is just a troll hiding behind a screen name desperately trying to be an asshole because his tiny little feelings got bruised... You are getting frustrated with people, but what you fail to see is that you're mostly getting back what you put out. Just relax.
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 23 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said: You are getting frustrated with people, but what you fail to see is that you're mostly getting back what you put out. Just relax. anonymous forum nerds very, very rarely "frustrate" me... literally 99% of the time i giggle when people just can not help but play the role that was given to them... nothing i do will change human nature... recognizing that simple fact very early in life has been a huge blessing... i guess the bigger question is why so many here can not help themselves but to continually comment and show their complete ignorance on something they do not even care to watch? the fact of the matter is i could not possibly care less if anyone likes greco... i totally understand why the average american does not like greco... whatever... but the totally ignorant things that get spouted with the absolute certainty that only complete fools seem to be able to muster just can not be allowed to let slide even on something as inconsequential as this forum... the stupid back and forth here are 100% exactly the same as the stupid back and forth that go on when a bunch of anonymous forum nerds squabble about wrestling vs any other sport on the planet... guess what? it does not matter one little bit...
dragit Posted October 8 Posted October 8 49 minutes ago, LJB said: anonymous forum nerds very, very rarely "frustrate" me... literally 99% of the time i giggle when people just can not help but play the role that was given to them... nothing i do will change human nature... recognizing that simple fact very early in life has been a huge blessing... i guess the bigger question is why so many here can not help themselves but to continually comment and show their complete ignorance on something they do not even care to watch? the fact of the matter is i could not possibly care less if anyone likes greco... i totally understand why the average american does not like greco... whatever... but the totally ignorant things that get spouted with the absolute certainty that only complete fools seem to be able to muster just can not be allowed to let slide even on something as inconsequential as this forum... the stupid back and forth here are 100% exactly the same as the stupid back and forth that go on when a bunch of anonymous forum nerds squabble about wrestling vs any other sport on the planet... guess what? it does not matter one little bit... Bravo
Sulyvahn Posted October 8 Posted October 8 5 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said: Greco at the highest level is not an entertaining product. It reminds me of the freestyle ball draw era. At worlds last year, there were 21 matches in Greco that ended 1-1. In freestyle, there was 1. If you don't think this is a problem, I'm not sure what to tell you. You can argue neither style is an entertaining product, since wrestling as whole is a niche sport minnowed by the footballs and baseballs of the world. Or even the second tier of sports like rugby or volleyball. I do concede that freestyle wrestling is currently more popular than greco. That was not always the case, in the first half of the 20th century greco was more popular. Until fairly recently, the styles were roughly a wash in popularity. Even the advantage today is primarily down to 2 or 3 nations ( the US, Iran* these are the people in the stands btw not the locals, and India) boosting freestyle. Look at the European championships in Freestlye, they have been the "Caucus Region of Russia Open" in disguise. That is not a sign of a healthy sport. Wrestling popularity or what really it's entertainment is to people, I think this is primarily derived from participation numbers. Former wrestlers and their families are the main audience who will like and follow it. The general public could care less: folk, free, greco womens etc. Yes greco's numbers plummeted because of what happened in the former greco strongholds of the Nordic countries, Germany - forces far beyond the scope of wrestling that I don't want to get into. About the ball grab rules. If you want to "optimize" wrestling for entertainment and accessibility, you would most likely end up with a rule sett similar to sumo, not folk or freestyle wrestling. Mercifully short bouts with clear intuitive rules (push him out of the circle or make him fall over before you do). These leg laces that end matches, tummy time riding, grounding until recently, are as strange to people outside the freestyle/folk bubble as you find greco. If you are going to diversify beyond sumo esque rules, I think having a style that restricts wrestling to the upper body and focuses on lifts and throws is as natural of a conclusion as a leg grabbing takedown focused style, or submission wrestling. I don't think greco is some accident of history. I don't think the actual points matter, you can make each sequence worth 10 and it's 10-10 or 20-20. I think you are making a comment on the repetitiveness of the bouts and the lack of scoring actions. Ok, that could be listed as a struggle of the sport. Though some athletes do produce many scoring sequences even at the highest level. A lot of sports tinker with time or boosting excitement, this is not unique to greco. I think is mostly a straw man, as again participation is king and Greco just does not have the army of 300+ thousand folk style and youth wrestlers backing it up the way freestyle does.
Jon_Kozak Posted October 8 Posted October 8 9 hours ago, Sulyvahn said: You can argue neither style is an entertaining product, since wrestling as whole is a niche sport minnowed by the footballs and baseballs of the world. That's not the argument here. You said I'm really hating on Greco, and I gave you the reason - it's not an entertaining product when compared to freestyle. 9 hours ago, Sulyvahn said: I don't think the actual points matter, you can make each sequence worth 10 and it's 10-10 or 20-20. I think you are making a comment on the repetitiveness of the bouts and the lack of scoring actions. Ok, that could be listed as a struggle of the sport. 21 matches ended 1-1 in Greco compared to 1 match in freestyle. My point is clearly that there's a lack of action in Greco compared to freestyle. That is a HUGE problem. 9 hours ago, Sulyvahn said: participation is king and Greco just does not have the army of 300+ thousand folk style and youth wrestlers backing it up the way freestyle does. Yes, one of Greco's biggest problems in America is that the skill set it builds is not as transferable to folkstyle as freestyle is.
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted October 8 Posted October 8 (edited) 19 hours ago, LJB said: this thread is a prime example that anonymous forum nerds are really only interested in shitting on things while hiding behind screen names... there are 4 people on this silly forum who can actually hold a conversation about greco, but, 21 pages of anonymous losers just spewing shit is what gets the traffic... YEAH INTERNET!!! I could have conversed about it 25-30 years ago. The sport as contested now looks very little like what was happening then. Edited October 8 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 19 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said: 21 matches ended 1-1 in Greco compared to 1 match in freestyle. My point is clearly that there's a lack of action in Greco compared to freestyle. That is a HUGE problem. leg grabbing matches can not end 1-1 by rule... i watched that match and it was a total breakdown in officiating procedure... 20 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said: Yes, one of Greco's biggest problems in America is that the skill set it builds is not as transferable to folkstyle as freestyle is. folk rewards not wrestling... that is a rule set problem not a wrestling problem... free fixed that problem by adding a step out rule that rewards actual wrestling and not backing up out of bounds... an upper body focus wrestling style can win international golds and NCAA championships as evidenced by that is actually has... just because american kids are taught to back up and their best shot being a dive in and pray for a scramble as an effective attack is again a rule problem and not a wrestling problem.... the last time i actually took points scored data in medal matches at worlds, greco scored on average more points per match than free... this is a perception problem that exists mostly in america because of ignorance... you 100% just hate on greco and using points scored as a some sort of justification for that stance is silly at best... just be honest...
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 11 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: I could have conversed about it 25-30 years ago. The sport as contested now looks very little like what was happening then. as does free... as does folk... this is not a wrestling problem... 1
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted October 8 Posted October 8 10 minutes ago, LJB said: as does free... as does folk... this is not a wrestling problem... But, the GR product hasn't gotten better. That is the problem. And the US has gotten markedly worse, like... really bad. That is another problem.
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: But, the GR product hasn't gotten better. That is the problem. And the US has gotten markedly worse, like... really bad. That is another problem. no, it hasn't... and yes, the US results have declined but that has nothing to do with greco itself... this argument is no different than someone trying to convince me that 3 minutes of backing up out of bounds and ending a period 0-0 is actually wrestling... that is awful to me and perfectly acceptable to so many who will then hate on greco for not enough action because that is what they were told to do... the main difference being is i don't keep coming back to folk threads to constantly whine about my own preference... that would be stupid...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted October 8 Posted October 8 1 minute ago, LJB said: no, it hasn't... and yes, the US results have declined but that has nothing to do with greco itself... this argument is no different than someone trying to convince me that 3 minutes of backing up out of bounds and ending a period 0-0 is actually wrestling... that is awful to me and perfectly acceptable to so many who will then hate on greco for not enough action because that is what they were told to do... the main difference being is i don't keep coming back to folk threads to constantly whine about my own preference... that would be stupid... But you have sure kept this one going!
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: But you have sure kept this one going! why was this shit thread started? why is anyone else still playing their role as miserable anonymous forum nerd just going around shitting on things to make themselves feel something? perhaps you should ask them, yes?
JMill Posted October 8 Posted October 8 Can we at least all agree that video reviews suck, regardless of style? A lost challenge needs to be more punitive… restart with your opponent having a standing rear body lock. Is that questionable call worth getting dropped on your dome for five?
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 the video reviews are 99.99% effective in getting the correct call... seems silly to complain about getting the correct call...
JMill Posted October 8 Posted October 8 1 minute ago, LJB said: the video reviews are 99.99% effective in getting the correct call... seems silly to complain about getting the correct call... There is no overtime for the sake of staying on schedule…. Then we have six minute matches that take 20+ minutes. RAF found out quickly that reviews would kill the watchability. There are three officials. They should be able to make the calls. If they get it wrong, so be it. It’s still just a game and life isn’t always fair. Video reviews have undoubtedly made officials worse (less decisive) in every sport. I’m pretty sure all these data centers going up everywhere are for video reviews, too… and Caviera’s AI questions.
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 fair... i have just watching football again and the constant reviews seem a little much, but, that just is mostly because i really just do not care... with that being said, the YOLO bricks at the end of a large number of matches do get a bit annoying... of course, if FILA had not been even more corrupt than the NCAA, the necessity of the bricks might feel a little different...
JMill Posted October 8 Posted October 8 7 minutes ago, LJB said: fair... i have just watching football again and the constant reviews seem a little much, but, that just is mostly because i really just do not care... with that being said, the YOLO bricks at the end of a large number of matches do get a bit annoying... of course, if FILA had not been even more corrupt than the NCAA, the necessity of the bricks might feel a little different... The NCAA needs their monopoly/anti-trust exemption before they’re corrupt. They are in the “throw our hands in the air, we’re trying to be good” phase of corruption. I don’t see any good ending to it, other than for universities to have semi-pro football and basketball with a trust to support Olympic sports. The dropping of wrestling from the Olympics was the best thing to ever happen. UWW seems to understand the US’s success is paramount to their own, while FILA was content on killing themselves if it killed the US, too. Freestyle rules twenty years ago were atrocious and a direct assault on US wrestlers. Today, the FS rules are the best they’ve ever been. I’d say three two-minute periods would be the only change I’d like. I’d say the same for Greco, so there’s some decisiveness… two periods to one.
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 2 minute periods are horrible... just like in cadets and RAF, the limited amount of time makes everything feel too rushed... since greco changed its 1-1 criteria rules, it has improved exponentially... previous to that it could be more like watching folk... the action is always present now no matter what some would have you believe...
JMill Posted October 8 Posted October 8 LJB, you’re not going to make the folkstyle turds covert to Greco. They are the casuals. They are the Caitlyn Clark Iowa women’s basketball fans. Some form of tribalism that is much stronger than actual reality. Greco is hard. Like chess. I can watch hours of chess. The better the play, the more boring it is. I watch it because I understand it. I like watching wrestling. Middle school wrestling is exciting. Tons of scoring. But it’s terrible.
LJB Posted October 8 Posted October 8 1 minute ago, JMill said: LJB, you’re not going to make the folkstyle turds covert to Greco. They are the casuals. They are the Caitlyn Clark Iowa women’s basketball fans. Some form of tribalism that is much stronger than actual reality. Greco is hard. Like chess. I can watch hours of chess. The better the play, the more boring it is. I watch it because I understand it. I like watching wrestling. Middle school wrestling is exciting. Tons of scoring. But it’s terrible. i accepted the typical attitude in america towards greco a long, long time ago... trying to change the average "fans" mind is akin to trying to change a woman's mind... no sense in even making an attempt...
ionel Posted October 8 Posted October 8 53 minutes ago, LJB said: fair... i have just watching football again and the constant reviews seem a little much, but, that just is mostly because i really just do not care... Hate to derail this valuable thread but the B12 football reviews seem to be a great improvement. They have sped up the process and made transparent allowing viewers to hear the discussion and analysis. Also MLB (not to be confused with LJB) ball & strike review seems to work. .
Nevaeh Lavarias Pearl City High School, Hawaii Class of 2027 Committed to Kent State Projected Weight: 124
Braeden Simoneaux New York Military Academy, Louisiana Class of 2027 Committed to Wyoming Projected Weight: 184, 197
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