billyhoyle

It’s really not that difficult to just quit the team and go to college as not an athlete if you find the experience to be so terrible. When you have 50 states with 2-3 divisions feeding into about 200 total programs in D1/D3, yeah it’s going to be more challenging to start and be an above .500 wrestler than it was in HS. Competing at the NCAA level doesn’t need to be a terrible sacrifice or “suffering.” The training is difficult, but people do CrossFit “for fun.” Some people enjoy training and competing. If you wrap your entire identity around being a great wrestler and find it to be more difficult in college, that is a personal failing of needing some other interests-not a failing of the experience of college wrestling.

The problem is that Trump was up 5-8 points against Biden in swing states and is now down 2-4 against Harris. That’s a huge swing, and he went from more likely to win to more likely to lose. If they switch to Desantis or Haley-they turn the tables completely and gain all the momentum back. They could do it right after the democratic convention in the exact same way the democrats did. It’s not even Trump’s fault. He made the entire election against Biden about age, which was a winning strategy, but it has completely fallen apart because now he’s the old one.

Trump drives just as much turnout for Harris as he does for Republicans. If he were off the ballot, a lot of Democrats wouldn't turn out either. I think Desantis and Haley are both more popular than Mccain/Romney. Also, it's not a fair comparison with Obama as the Democratic nominee. Obama was very popular among democrats in a way that Harris/Biden/Hillary Clinton never were. I think Desantis or Haley vs Harris would look like Bush vs Kerry. Obviously Harris would win some states, but not PA, OH, or Michigan. I think if Trump does this, he will look brilliant for one upping Biden and delivering a win to Republicans, the prosecutions against him would stop, and he could still be highly influential behind the scenes and publicly through his endorsements.

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure Desantis and Haley would both beat Kamala by a wide margin because most of the former republicans who just don't like Trump would move back in large numbers.

Related question-would it be too late for the Republicans to now switch in Desantis or Haley in for Trump? I'm pretty sure they would win if they did this. Kind of like playing an Uno reverse card.

The problem isn't the coaching or them knowing any technique that our coaches don't know. Russian coaches have come to the U.S. in the past. U.S. wrestlers have spent time training in Russia (obviously they can't do that anymore) and usually it doesn't make a huge difference.

“Bro,” your rule suggestion is to have a 6 point nearfall? You think counting to 6 is going to create more action than incentivizing throws and Dake Bombs?

If they are “sloppy” then why do our elite guys (other than Dake) have trouble executing these moves? I want to create rules from neutral that favor action and exciting moves like throws. You can keep top/bottom wrestling exactly as it is. This change doesn’t ruin folkstyle-it simply adds another layer to it.

So when more d1 schools drop wrestling, will you keep saying there’s no problem or will you switch to arguing that there’s nothing we could have done? Viewership is not down for all college sports. Look up numbers for lacrosse, baseball, and women’s basketball. Sports that adapt are thriving-those that don’t are dying. “Let’s keep doing what we are doing even though people aren’t watching as much anymore.” Do you not care that the sport is becoming less popular? The skill gap isn’t the problem-the problem is that technique has evolved in a way that leads to decreased action. The solution is to change the incentive structure to favor action.

If NCAA wrestling is in a good spot, why is viewership and attendance dropping? Why is the product noticeably more boring with less action than it was 30 years ago? Is MLB in a better or worse spot after instituting the pitch clock? How about the 3 point line and shot clock in basketball-good or bad decision?

Yes it does. It’s a different move that only scores from neutral. No need to change the nearfall rule at all.

If you want to score it 3 points for exposure instead of 4 so it matches a takedown and then 4 or 5 points for a true feet to back technique, that’s fine with me. I just want to incentivize action from neutral and clean finishes to shots-and I think this one rule change would do it. It would also make our wrestlers fluid in all freestyle neutral scramble positions. It wouldn’t take away the “control” aspect that people seem to love about folkstyle, and would only be a single rule that is more additive than anything-because it’s just another way to score points. And also any self-respecting wrestling fan loves throws-and we should try to have rules that encourage risk taking like that.

Nope, I’m suggesting awarding wrestlers for a move that goes feet to back from neutral. So essentially giving four points for a throw that goes feet to defensive wrestler exposure regardless of whether the traditional takedown occurs. So let’s say you shoot on an opponent, he stops your shot, then chest wrap/tosses you over and you both land in a front headlock position or with you holding the leg (after you exposed your back) he gets 4 points and is considered in the top position. If you then finish your shot and end up on top it counts as a 2 point reversal. If he finished the front headlock and ends up behind, there are no additional points because he is already considered in top position.

I agree-technique has evolved in folkstyle where the risk calculus of a big move is not worth it and favors an extremely boring style of wrestling. You see this in every sport. Basketball and lacrosse developed strategies that involved holding onto the ball for long periods of time until a shot clock was instituted. Baseball developed defensive shifts until they were outlawed. Football had defensive backs crowd receivers until the PI rules were changed to encourage more offense. Gymnastics changed their rules to encourage more difficult moves (instead of scoring everything out of 10). As technique evolves to encourage less action, most sports institute rule changes to encourage more action. Wrestling must do the same.

We don’t even need to change the par terre rules. The only change needed to make to folkstyle is to add a 4 point neutral exposure score. The result will be just as many scrambles, but they won’t involve defensive wrestlers rolling on their own back. Offensive wrestlers will be encouraged to go for throws and also to cleanly finish their leg shots. Once a neutral exposure or takedown happens, we can keep wrestling top/bottom exactly as folkstyle does. Exact same techniques and nearfall requirments, and no exposure points unless an escape is awarded (so no exposure points on mat returns). This change will make folkstyle exciting again while maintaining the aspects of it that fans love. It will actually look a bit more like it did in the 80s/90s when throws were more common and stalemates rarer.

I hate how WWE treats their athletes. It’s not UFC where it makes sense to cut a fighter after losing a few fights. Apparently this guy was decently popular with their fans (unlike Gable). Clearly based off that tweet he wants to keep wrestling. But zero surprise that WWE cuts him likely out of spite almost immediately after Gable leaves.

In what world do any of our ncaa coaches give a shit about the Olympics? Brands wrestled Spencer Lee on a questionable knee in an Olympic year. Cael has the best freestyle room in the country and they are barely even going to international tournaments-they sure do a great job preparing the ncaa wrestlers though. And now apparently teams are investing 500K for NIL athletes to score like 15 team points…

Yes, based on who initiated the “action”. I think we would see just as many leg attacks because we do see them in freestyle. But in our training, it would force us to actually practice good finishes because the attacking wrestler will have finish the shot and can’t rely on scrambling out of a counter. Seeing the 65 kg Japanese wrestler execute what I consider to be the cleanest low single/finish of the year is the perfect example of this. Taylor’s style of attacking/finishing is another-it played up perfectly in free. Why did JB transition immediately to free? Because his double had an extremely clean finish. Brooks shooting and hanging onto the leg as a stall technique would have worked in folk, but didn’t in free.

Watch folkstyle matches from the 80s. Then watch the matches from today. Do you really think the product that is folkstyle is getting better for fans? I think it is getting less exciting with less action. I love folkstyle too-I wrestled through college and only competed in one freestyle tournament in my life. I know the folkstyle rules and techniques better than freestyle because it’s what I did. But NCAA wrestling is dying right in front of our eyes, and we are just letting it happen. Changes need to be made to encourage the type of action we saw in the 80s/90s. Our athletes are not being set up for success the way they are in swimming and track. Changes need to be made so that they can bring back gold medals.

Yes, exactly. Par terre isn’t really that critical at the top levels of freestyle, and our athletes do a relatively good job learning guts and leg laces. The folkstyle fans will be happy because the change I’m proposing only alters one small aspect of the sport (the type of scrambles that happen, not the existence of scrambles), and our athletes will be better served because the way they train will directly translate to freestyle. Most folkstyle elements that distinguish it from freestyle (all the different top/bottom techniques) will remain in tact. From neutral, the product will still be highly similar to folkstyle, except now there will be more throws and less rolling on your own back. I think that this change alone, once implemented across levels and given time for youth athletes to develop, will lead to the US surpassing Russia and Iran. It addresses the single biggest issue our athletes face at the international level-the lack of fluidity in their style when scrambling with freestyle neutral exposure as a possibility.

To have NCAA men’s wrestling stay competitive in the NIL era, we must switch to freestyle or at the very least a more exciting version of folkstyle that allows our athletes to better transition to free. It’s our best chance of boosting the popularity of the sport. NCAA wrestling is losing fans every year-adapt or die, and we are choosing the latter.

Where did you see that I liked it when Trump did it? You think I like that we have a candidate telling his followers to write “vote Trump for no tax on tips” whenever they’re in a restaurant?

I know it's different-I agree that the legality of what Biden did is questionable. I'm just saying the concept of student loan forgiveness isn't novel and is part of the law itself.

No, I'm referring to the federal student loan program. you can get forgiveness through the public service loan forgiveness program (10 years), as well as through income driven repayment plans when working in the private sector (20-25 years). These provision are written into law and are a part of the federal student loan program.

The only rule that folkstyle needs to add is to count a neutral exposure as 4 points. Once you get exposure points, you are considered to be in the top position. If you end up on bottom after the scramble, your opponent gets a 2 point reversal. 1. The first result would be significantly more neutral throws (because you have the potential to get 4 regardless of the outcome and then backpoints if you keep your oponent in a danger position). I am talking about bringing us back to 80s style wrestling with Randy Lewis, Louden Swain. Folkstyle wrestling today is not the folkstyle wrestling of the 80s, and we have lost a lot because of it! Go watch NCAA matches from the 80s, while Lunatic Fringe is playing in the background, and tell me that the sport we have today remotely compares to that. 2. The second result would be exciting counters by defensive wrestlers in response to shots. This would end the boring folkstyle counters that involve rolling around on your own back to force a stalemate. Instead, we would have just as many scrambles, but they would inevitably lead to more points and more action! 3. The last result is that our athletes would be forced to have significantly better technique. A lot of folkstyle wrestlers shoot in on legs and hold on, either to stall or to try to force stalling calls. We even saw Aaron Brooks try to do this at the end of his semifinal match. That is not good wrestling! Good wrestling is you shoot, you score. Like Otoguro's low single. John Smith invented the low single, but Otoguro's low single was better than any U.S. wrestler that I have seen since Smith. The reason is that folkstyle in its current form does not punish you for failing to finish your shots! Folkstyle fans, I am not trying to take away your precious top/bottom wrestling or riding time! Let's just make the sport more exciting by encouraging more throws and better technique!