Dogbone

Eggum > Cael

If anything, the bonus points only highlight how few points a top 16/ RD 12 or low AA will earn for the team.

Honestly, I think bonus points are the smallest issue with tournament scoring. 

1st place gets 20 points w/o bonus.   Rd 12 gets 2 points w/o bonus.    No question first should be rewarded the most but I don't think it is 10 times better than the 9th place guy in the country.

8th earns 5.5 w/o bonus 7th = 6.5 so both are about 3.5 times less than 1st.  To me, getting an AA should be better.  The current scoring system really only rewards having top 4 finishers.

I don't have a better system and I don't think a change will happen so it is what it is.  Rutgers had 2 AAs and finished 20th, but they were 9 points behind 17th place W. Virginia.    A few backside pins isn't making up that difference. 

2 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Being a state champion certainly helps your odds of getting a college scholarship over somebody who gets 3rd place as a senior. 

Not at 103 it doesn't. He probably wasn't finishing college even if he had a partial scholarship to a NAIA or D3 school anyway.

1 hour ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

My brother did not wrestle his sophomore year of high school because he was too small. He wrestled junior high in 9th grade at 70lbs. He went something like 24-0 and won his section. The next year as a sophomore he was too small to wrestle 103lbs. He literally could not gain enough weight to meet the minimum. And then his junior year he would have to drink tons of water in order to be able to get up to required lowest weight allowed to wrestle 103lbs. Even as a senior he did not have to cut weight to wrestle 103lbs. He is 44 years old and to this day is still 115lbs soaking wet at 5'6". 

If my brother had the choice to repeat a year in order to get bigger so he could wrestle he would have laughed in the face of anyone who would suggest it. There was a zero percent chance he was going to leave his all of his friends in his grade behind to wrestle. Of course my brother was not a world class talent so maybe the would have changed things.

I also graduated with someone who was too light to wrestle his Fr year and wrestled 103 his Sr year.  We never thought about redshirting in 8th grade , in part because we weren't good enough to ever wrestle at a high level but also even if he would of finished with a state title instead of 3rd place his Sr year, I can't imagine his life would of turned out different.  Plus he would of had to be in school another year.

I doubt RBY would of been different either.  Heck, he would of been out of eligibility before Vito went on a tear and would of finished as a national champ his senior year otherwise about the same.

I just don't think it matters that much.

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

Fwiw

 Relative Age Effect: Beyond the Youth Phenomenon - PMC
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7692010/

That really doesn't answer the question at all since the study focus on the overall RAE and not kids who were held back after already achieving a high level of success, which was my question you responded to. 

Now if we are talking about holding back kindergartners so they graduate at 19, then the data would suggest that will lead to a greater level of success, but I don't see how holding back a high level of 8th grader, already likely to be a D1 recruit will matter all. 

I guess I don't get the purpose for these high level guys.  I suppose if you want to win a state title as a 19 yo, I can see the advantage but does it really matter once guys are 20 year olds or to guys who are competing in age level national tournaments?

I think Bo Basset delayed his HS after he won a Cadet World Gold. Now he is competing in college opens and at the Last Chance qualifier.    Dude was going get recruiting to D1 regardless so I don't understand why he delayed entering HS.  Maybe he will reclassify?

For the record, I don't care if someone repeats 8th grade, I just don't see the advantage, but I am sure I am missing something.

12 hours ago, cowcards said:

I must be in the absolute minority because I hated the arena. The sight lines were horrible. Any time someone leaned slightly forward or was taller it blocked the view of mats. I've not had that issue with the other arenas. Everything else was great though. 

Curious where were your seats? Our seats were lower and could easily see over the the row in front so no issues, but I did look around the arena and notice the corners had a concrete wall that I thought had to obstruct some views. 

Not to distract from all of the Eufala, Oklahoma talk.  But someone on twitter/x (sorry, I can't remember who) suggested a rule that you can still have unlimited transfers but you are not allowed to take any NIL money for 1 year.  

It might cut down on the poaching and wouldn't require kids to stay in a situation they don't like.  You could also modify it to can't take any new NIL money so guys wouldn't have to take a "paycut" if they did want to transfer.

43 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Right, 100% a compliance issue. He can't coach or have a financial interest/incentive in a club or other org where a prospective athlete from the same sport trains or competes. Bizzarely, if Askren spun off a separate AWA women's club (AWAW?) he'd be able to take the Wisconsin job because men's and women's wrestling are considered different sports.

Honest question, but don't the RTC hold youth practices for anyone within a certain radius? I know AWA isn't an RTC but I am confused on why a RTC coach, who is also a university coach, can hold practices for prospective athletes.

This is from Cliff Keen's website  https://www.cliffkeenwrestlingclub.com/programs/michigan-rtc/

Participation Criteria

To be eligible to participate, you must have a valid USA Wrestling membership card, be enrolled in 8th – 12th grade, live within 250 miles of the Bahna Wrestling Center [click to check distance], and meet one of the following performance criteria:

1 Placed top 8 at UWW Junior National Championship
2. Placed top 8 at USAW Junior National Championship
3. Placed top 3 at USAW Junior Regional
4. Placed top 8 at USAW 16U National Championship
5. Placed top 8 at UWW Cadet National Championship
6. Placed top 3 at USAW State Junior Freestyle/Greco-Roman Championships
7. Placed top 3 at USAW State 16U Freestyle/Greco-Roman Championships

Bormet is listed under Staff on the same website. 

I understand  the financial interest/incentive is different but that would seem pretty easy to get around by putting it all in his wife's name/ a trust/ or something.    

To me 165 was the bracket of the tournament but looking at the eligibility there are 7 guys who could be 4x AA in the bracket (5x for KOT)

Finalist

Carr - 2X NCAA Champ/3X finalist/4x AA

KOT - 2X NCAA Champ/ 2x finalist/4x AA - 1 year remaining - could be a 3x champ/ 5x AA

MM - 1 x Finalist - 3 years remaining - seems like he will win a title, maybe 3? and 4x AA

So it has a realistic possibility of having 8 titles in the one bracket.   Plus the below who, depending on weight changes and guys jumping levels, could win a title(s) at some point.

Also Eligibility to be 4x AA

Hunter Garvin - Freshman AA - Could be a 4x AA

Antrell Taylor - Freshman AA - could be a 4x AA

Caliendo 2 time AA - Could be a 4x AA

Amine - 3x AA - could be a 4 time AA (I think/ covid years confuse me?)

Multiple AAs

Hamiti - 2x AA - could be a 3 time AA

Olejnik - 2x AA

Peyton Hall 2x AA could be a 3xAA

This could be the only bracket where Amine and Hamiti didn't AA in college.   If Garvin,Taylor and MM all AA one more time (each with 3 years left), every AA in the bracket will be a multi time AA.

The above doesn't include Ramirez, who hasn't AAd but is really good and could be a high finisher next year. 

So the bracket currently has 4 NCAA Titles/6x finalist/23 AA finishes with the potential for more.   Could this go down as one of the best brackets ever? 

13 hours ago, scourge165 said:

2-They're all owners in AWA and they're doing pretty well financially. Would you take a pay cut to be a full-time HC with all the stress when you're running a club and making probably at worst as much as you'd be offered?

Max Askren would be great...but it won't happen. What also seems INCREDIBLY unlikely;

 

Why would Max have to divest of any ownership in AWA?  Couldn't he remain as an owner but not be involved in coaching at AWA and thus not take a paycut? I am probably naive on the compliance issues but some coaches do own other business, AWA would be another business. 

What's going to happen at CMU?  I know the hot rumor is Reader.  I do like the guy but everyone is trying to run Bono out of Madison for the team's under performance but his assistant coach is in line to get a HC job?   Would he hire Bono to be his assistant at CMU? 

Obviously they would love to bring Casey home but that seems unlikely at this point.  

8 minutes ago, BobDole said:

That's an ESPN thing with the hard time slot they have.

I assumed this was probably the case. 

If they only have a 2 hour window then my only counter would be that ESPN doesn't need to come in for the start of consi-semis. Wait until the consi-semis are over (hold matches until 11:00) to go live to the world when the medal matches start.   

I think almost everyone knows Casey is a key part of PSU's dynasty.  It's my understanding he has been approached about HC jobs before but he is happy in his current role and doesn't want to leave.  

Agree, I thought KC did a great job and hope they get in the regular rotation.

Not KC related, NCAA Championships suggested changes:

- Put the video reviews on the jumbotron.  

- I'm a fan of the independent review but they need to speed it up.   Let them look at it 90 -120 seconds from different angles and have them score the match as they see it.  If it's not clear then no change.   Also, there should be no need for back to back challenges. 

- Can we please stop doing all of the 7th places matches at the same time, then the 5th, then the 3rd?  Let's go back to weight by weight.  Don't hold matches if its a time issue. 

Fix is now the greatest wrestler to never win a title.   He just lost to the defending World Champ and everyone is pretending like he regressed.   I know he was in college for 7 years, but there might not be another human, regardless of age, that can beat Vito when he is on. 

I don't understand how he is so good at freestyle yet appears to rely (or wants to rely) on his top game in folkstyle to win big matches.   But the hate for Fix seems to have gone too far.   There do seem to be a lot of challenges in his matches (probably because they are so close) but JS does win a fair number of them.  That isn't Fix's fault. 

Hey guys, I heard we landed on the moon. 

As a wrestling fan, Bailey and Little worry me the most.  I don't see how we can get schools to add wrestling if their guys are going to transfer as soon as they become AAs.   BUT, if you are those two and you are going to get $100K+/year to wrestle for a big school, its a personal decision that a lot people will take.

I hope it doesn't happen but won't be shocked if it does.  

So what is Bo's actual complaint here? That the announcer shouldn't explain strategy to an audience because it isn't "classy"? Last I checked wrestling was a tough sport. 

Nebraska hiring Troy Dannan from Washington to replace the former the coward who cut UNO's team.

 Dannen hired Doug Schwab while at UNI so this appears to be an upgrade for the wrestling community (almost anyone with a pulse would of been).

Here goes nothing:

125 - Micheal Deaugustino - Mich

133 - Julian Farber - UNI

141 - Cole Mathews - Pitt

149 - Jordan Williamns - Ok St

157 - Joey Blaze - Purdue

165 - Nick Hamilton - Virginia

174 - Brody Conley - West Virginia

184 - Ryder Rogotzke - Oh St

197 - Joey Novak - Wyoming

HWT - Bradley Hill - Iowa

11 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Would not seeding Starocci last at BigTens bring about essentially the same result as seeding him 9th at NCAAs? If he is last at Bigs AND THEN WRESTLES and advances and then beats the wrestler seeded 1rst the complaints we saw about him being seeded 9th at NCAAs and drawing Mehki would have been made one tournament earlier. 

There is no perfect solution, just the routine complaints about unfairness. 

There is a difference between the qualifier and the NCAA tourney.    If he has plans to wrestle then he should be seeded 1st.  

14 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

One, an injury default only occurs when you take the mat. It is a loss. You can't take a loss without actually taking the mat. Two, Manning is railing on someone for playing within the rules, not outside of them. He further does so without providing any meaningful insight on what he wants done. In other words, he's just a whiner. 

1) you only described what an injury default was, everyone knows he took the mat and a loss.  That wasn't the question. 2) you don't know that hasn't or won't occur, it just wasn't in the article. 

No one has said that Cael is solely responsible for anything.  It's called an example. 

This is NCAA week!  For a fanbase that is hours away from dominating the NCAA tourney and potentially breaking the all time scoring record, you would think you would be in a better mood.   Hopefully you guys can break away from the thought that someone has said something negative toward Cael (oh the horror, boo hoo) to enjoy some wrestling.