scourge165

Yeah...BUT, there has been a substantial change in the prep talent in Wisconsin. The Askren's provided the infrastructure for these guys to all come and work out. That was a big problem in Wisconsin. The talent was spread out and there were few clubs. AND then on top of that, it's not like they just provided the buildings, each place has a coach who wrestled and had success in College save for...I guess where Messenbrink is, and he was one of the best coaches in the state...and an even better coach when talking about coaching the elite Wrestlers. The state didn't have much of that. That combo of just locations and then coaches who Wrestled at a high level have really changed the game in Wisconsin. So in theory, they should be able to do more than they have historically. It's been beaten to death already, but just going through and about what their lineup would look like, you could have just dominance on the upper half of the lineup with for arguments sake, '57-Messenbrink, '65 O'Toole, '74-Mocco, '84-Parker, '97-Buchhannan. Just that stretch right there would be pretty damn impressive. You could also have Barnett at '25, Clark at '33, keep Zargo at '49. That's a top 3 team right there. And I know Wisconsin's had some issues where their admissions is a pain in the ass, even with Wrestlers of O'Toole's caliber who they hadn't been able to get into UW in the past, but...I believe all these guys are really good students as well. I used O'Toole as an example because...I didn't want to be a dick and use a real example of someone who couldn't get in there. There's also as much talent still coming as there is already in College. Sinclair is absolutely on O'Toole/Messenbrink's level at this point, Hopke, the Mirasola's, Charlie Millard is an extremely impressive kid. There's a '74 Jake Stoefell who is impressive.

No. It's a different team dominating. Not Iowa. Night and Day different...

Everything is "the end of College Wrestling." Hasn't D3 been one by Augsburg or Wartburg for 30+ years in a row? There are kids at all different schools still battling their asses off. Iowa was as dominant as Penn State. They had those caps, they'd get a guy like Mcllravy through a couple years, he'd get hired to do the camps, get paid enough to cover tuition, he'd no longer be on scholarship and they'd bring in the next wave. There's always something that's going to be "the end of___" and people adapt. It's a sport dominated by a few teams. Always has been. Right now it's PSU.

Probably. I was just going through the next wave of big names who could in theory attract talent as a result of their own success like Smith, Gable and now Cael have done. I'm just kinda thinking out loud here. If Snyder is next up...then well, I still don't think JB is coming to Wisconsin, but I'd sure as hell try to get him there.

They said that for last year. I don't think they explicitly stated that this year, but...clearly that was the goal. And Sinclair did Wrestle Mirasola this year anyway. So...not a whole lot to prove(though it'd have been interesting). I'd like to see Sinclair RS...just because I'm always rooting for the next 4X Champ, the next guy with a shot at going undefeated. That's really premature, but he's that type of talent if he's at '74 with a year of weight training...IMO. He's that good.

No, I'm not positive...maybe they're not all making 300K from just AWA. I'm not in the know. I heard a rumor they offered 1 million to buy Crass Wrestling to put their names on it and have Crass keep running it. I trust the people I heard it from, but you know how that game of telephone goes. Of course, they'd seem to have quite a bit of free time(relative to being a B1G HC, recruiting and rebuilding a program with shit facilities) and they don't have to deal with compliance issues or recruiting or any of that. Messenbrink is watching his own kid...and that's before looking at it from UW's perspective. They've been pretty clear about Ben. Max would probably be a great HC...especially as it'd open up Wisconsin, but he's never been a College coach. I'd think UW would want that as a requirement. Messenbrink, never been a College coach and he's watching his kid. Would you rather watch your kid go win 3 NCAA Titles and travel around the Country, or would you rather jump in at Wisconsin and have a far more strict schedule and miss a lot of his matches?

I think he'd run into NCAA compliance issues. He'd still have an ownership stake in a club that has relationships with kids long before you can contact them...but I'm not sure exactly why.

I think if Sinclair takes a RS and then Wrestles '74...Mizzou might not see much of a drop off after O'Toole. I know that's a big statement, but he's on that level IMO. Why he wrestled 215...I'm really not sure(other than Mirasola was at '95 and he could do whatever he wanted), but he was ~185 at the State Tournament(or so I heard 3rd hand) and he's not exactly lean, so I think he'd easily certify at '74. Plus it just makes more sense looking at that lineup.

Oh...yeah, that's a TERRIBLE idea.

Nah, I agree. I hate it. It helps guys who are good hand fighters, but just block and push(which used to be a form of stalling). And the person who said the Fix match would be over sooner, I don't know, I think he's the exact type of Wrestler that benefits from it. They are two different styles. Call stalling more. Make it a point of emphasis, whatever. I don't want to see the pushout in College or any Folkstyle.

It's not gonna be Ben, Max, Messenbrink. 1-There are too many compliance issues. Max would be great...you get Ben, but he's not the face so when he says something they don't like, not their problem...BUT even without the compliance issues; 2-They're all owners in AWA and they're doing pretty well financially. Would you take a pay cut to be a full-time HC with all the stress when you're running a club and making probably at worst as much as you'd be offered? Max Askren would be great...but it won't happen. What also seems INCREDIBLY unlikely; Is this. Taylor, Dake, Snyder, Burroughs...Taylor seems to be loving life. Winning rings and farming things a mile away from Kyle Dake. Dake is also still Wrestling(though he for some reason feels more likely...but that's just because I think he's a little off...in a good way and may want that challenge). Snyder and JB...just feels like if they're going to become HCs, JB is the closest, but Manning is also the closest to retiring among the coaches of the upper tier programs and Snyder...IDK, just don't think he'd come. Messenbrink would be a HR if this was a sport where they jumped through hoops in order to make the job a fit. Again, Max would be another. Just getting rid of Bono and sticking with Reader would be fine. Trevor Brandvold would be a great hire. I'm skeptical about these big name coaches wanting the job, but who knows?

I get what you're saying. Carter Starocci accomplished more than Bo Nickal, but Bo had a more exciting style of Wrestling. I don't agree necessarily. Starocci was just as dominant and didn't need that big throw or whatever, but I know what you're saying. I've always argued that you can't just rank guys according to # of Titles. It's not that simple. I don't think there's much of a gap between Nolf, Zain, DT and Starocci... I don't think you put Stieber as one of the top 5(before last night) just because he had 4. I think you could argue a guy like Abas was better than Lee(if he'd finished it). There's a lot of opinion and nuance involved. He couldn't even beat Iowa State in a duel. Not...impressed! No, he's incredible and I think you're right. I think he's very possibly the 3rd best in the world at the moment. Just a shame he's 2nd in his own room. Bigger shame that we've got Mother#$%$#5 God#$%4 stupid #$%$ BREAKDANCING in the Olympics now, but 10 weights is juuuust too many. Lets have cuts cut out a kidney so they can drop to 163 or they can just move up to 190. I know the Russia-Ukraine thing is considered "important," to people, but the US, Russia, and Nato need to come together to rectify this! (I'm kidding...obviously, horrible War, but it's a joke).

Hell yeah. Why not? You let Barr wrestle a bunch, get him some big duels, you throw...IDK, Sealey out there, see how the lineup is playing out. Now, if you're Starocci and hypothetically, you have O'Toole at '74 and Keck at '84...you might not want to put it out there again. He's a legit 4X Champ, no Covid*...he can walk away now as one of the greats, done. OR...he could come back, take on probably the two best Wrestlers in the NCAA heading into next year P4P(or they're at least close). And then on the other hand...he never made Gabe Arnold cry in front of his parents after Arnold called him overrated, so maybe we see Carter come back JUST for that Iowa duel! I think Bartlett, Kerk and Starocci are back and in that order. If you're Bartlett, how do you not come back? After the way this year went down? Now regarding Kerk, he always seems bored with the sport. So he's the hardest to read, but when you win TWO titles...that's a whole other group you move into.

**BASSETT I need to re-read my own posts more clearly. Erik Gibson, Mason Gibson, Beau Bassett...probably Keegan Bassett also(though that's really projecting). How they get these guys to sign on when they KNOW just to make the lineup...a kid like Erik Gibson will have to beat those middle weights where they're young and already competing at an elite-elite level.

I would. PSU is just getting better and better. PSU has guys like Sealy, Barr, Duke, Facundo, Henkel...all of whom will have to battle just to crack the lineup by then. Add Davis, Lillendahl, Kasak, Bartlett(won't be '26 though), Haines, Messenbrink, the Ryder, Mirasola's, Cunningham, Gibson...I'm missing so many other guys it's ridiculous. I'd also expect Davis, Nagao to get better. Haines may take a RS. I'm guessing Bartlett ends up there given the cousin is there and he seems to be around the program, but IDK, not like the future hinges on any one guy, they're going to be insanely deep. And how many guys don't have at least one year remaining? Brooks and Truax? I've always thought Starocci would come back, take basket weaving and get another year in to get 5 while he trains for Freestyle anyway...and in so doing, grab that NIL money(and it's off-cycle, he could even go 184 to allow for Facundo to get back into the lineup. I don't know what they'll do, but they've still got an embarrassment of riches.

He's great. He'd be SO much better if he juuuuust said "resliate" a little less. Some asshole pointed this out to me and now it's all I hear! But Sparks is great. Love the enthusiasm and knowledge of the sport.

I think everyone is letting him live it...they're just rooting for him to participate in a real sport and one that we all follow.

Shit...this was a while ago, but I still want to correct this damn auto-correct. I HAD Messenbrink...until I watched O'Toole handle Carr. @Wrestej I don't "hate" the kid(I hope that was obvious). I just think Keegan is a significantly better Wrestler than last year(when he was a NC and beat Carr in the finals). He might be the best Wrestler P4P in the Country right now(though it's hard to take the PSU duo).

I hate Messenbrink...until I watched Carr-O'Toole. I think O'Toole has taken another leap this year. His defense is so solid and he can score from anywhere...and I don't think he's going to gas. I don't see anyone beating him, but it'll be interesting to see how they matchup.

THAT is some impressive shit. I remember him getting hurt...I did not remember it was a broken ankle. Again, my own anecdotal experiences, knee injuries can vary in pain or ability to Wrestle on them. A broken ankle though? I had a friend with an irrational dislike for Mr. Jaggers. Claimed he got lucky...TWICE. He was a helluva Wrestler also, so he really should have been smart enough to know you don't "get lucky," and win TWO Titles...but he'd still argue it!

Oh...yeah. I didn't even have my first one repaired for a few years, but I did have it blow up on me a few times and have it drained. THAT hurt like a SOB. It's like draining your ear kinda...but worse in how much it hurts and then so much better in how it feels. I didn't tear my meniscus with the ACL though. It was just a straight ACL. I thought if you had a torn meniscus or anything else, it would pretty much be a wrap. BUT, we don't even know what it is. That way it moved...that makes me think it could have been the MCL. Definitely hope he can go for the D1s. It'd suck if he couldn't compete.

I tore my ACL and didn't find out for...3-4 weeks. It swelled up, but I could still put weight on it and move around. This was after a teammate had suffered his 3rd torn ACL in less than 3 years (right, then left, then tore the right again). He tore his and it was like a broken leg. It blew up, he wouldn't be able to put weight on it, he couldn't possibly Wrestle. I remember asking my Orthopedic Surgeon(when I went in for a consultation before shoulder surgery) why I didn't know and his were so bad. He basically just said...they don't know. With knees or shoulders, they're a wide variance between how much pain it causes, how the rehab will go...he even pointed out there was an NBA player who didn't even have ACLs and played in College and was elite and then played for I think San Antonio. I couldn't Wrestle through the same shoulder injury others had. I could Wrestle and rehab through a torn ACL...enough to compete. I hope he's able to compete. I'd hate to see a kid like him going for 4 have his season end in such an anti-climatic manner and it's just bad for the sport.

I'm afraid to ask at this point.

No...it wasn't "essentially asking," that even a little bit. It was essentially asking...do people honestly believe that people are not contributing to climate change. This is actually straightforward and not even EV-related...though EV technology is still in it's infancy and batteries and infrastructure are improving, I don't care what your opinion on EVs are. I was asking a more general question(really don't know how much more clear I could have made that...

Yeah, but only recently on their trucks. I didn't even really know about them when I started looking at Tundra's. Then saw the Capstone and...they're 2 years in IIRC on making those hybrids? I've gotten some shit for it, not buying a Ford but they're made in America(at least many are, you can tell if yours was by the vin and mine have been) and the resale, the reliability, they're just better for my purposes. The EVs can be great, but obviously, they're less convenient. Setting aside what you think of the solutions or the hypocrisy, do people honestly believe that people aren't contributing to climate change or that it's not an issue that's seriously impacting us?