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Well considering the founders are one and the same, it probably makes sense to compare them… And for that reason, I think it had to be expected that something like this might happen. I guess one could argue Rokfin is “better” than Flo because more of the proceeds go to the “creators,” but this model sure seems like worse value for the consumers who may end up paying more annually for Rokfin for arguably less content than Flo (depending on their interest in particular events). But, I do need to thank Willie for not requiring a Rokfin sub for using this forum…

I wasn’t necessarily talking about the “outcomes” of grayshirting, just the people who are more likely to do it. I did mention I don’t even think grayshirting is really much of a problem in wrestling currently - and really outside of the Ivy League it may not have resulted in much benefit. At Penn State it seems to just mean you’ll get recruited over. Can you clarify your last paragraph? Are you saying living in a “flophouse” is or is not cost prohibitive?

If someone taking a grayshirt is living at home (and not because his family moved to the same town his future college is in) and taking classes at community college, then yes, they’re most likely not “privileged.” I’m just not sure if that happens much in terms of wrestlers that grayshirt. I don’t know the specifics of if any housing is paid for (I had heard that about Cornell, not sure about PSU) - if so then yes that could open grayshirting up to kids that don’t come from “privileged” families, but it would moreso just be the benefit of wrestling for a school that is “privileged” to have strong alumni/RTC support. Although to be fair, I don’t think grayshirting is really that common in wrestling. But if redshirting was eliminated than it would be much more common. I guess redshirting could be an example of “privilege,” too, but IMO that’s really only assuming they’re not getting much in scholarship and/or financial aid money. And again it’s been stated that a significant number of overall college students take longer than 4 years to graduate anyway…although I suppose it’s possible they are more likely to be “privileged” as well…

I agree with most of this post. But to clarify, I think the only reason “privilege” has been brought up is regarding grayshirting. Yes, I’d bet the majority of wrestlers taking grayshirts come from “privilege.” The main argument I’ve seen against this is “lol privilege,” and one comment claiming someone “might need to work for a year” - does anyone have any examples of a D1 wrestler that took a grayshirt because he “needed to work for a year”?

Strength mostly I’d say. It’s math really. A 19 year old is 5.6% older than an 18 year old, but a 23 year old is only 4.5% older than a 22 year old.

Is that true? I’d be curious to see this research

For one, an extra year makes much more difference in HS than it does in college. And a lot of kids are already redshirting in middle or high school anyway…

Do many band members get scholarships? (Yes I know some do but would have to believe it’s a small minority). I guess they could have an unrelated academic scholarship and lose that, but I doubt they’d get kicked out of the band after participating for 4 years, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Yes, I would bet that most grayshirts even outside of the Ivy League but especially within it are taken by those with “privilege” (AKA at least upper middle class parents), because a lot of people probably can’t afford to grayshirt without getting scholarship or financial aid money, and needing to work full time would likely put a damper on the purpose of grayshirting in order to prepare for athletics. Cornell maybe the exception since from what I gather their housing may be at least partly subsidized by alumni. Do you agree that eliminating redshirting would result in exponentially more grayshirting?

My apologies, you “have a problem” with grayshirting, you just don’t care to do anything about it and don’t seem to mind that eliminating redshirting will exponentially increase the number of grayshirts, yes mostly for the “privileged.” Can a band member participate in band for 5+ years as long as they fulfill all the necessary requirements?

Or 0 years?

Allows kids to get used to the rigor of D1 athletics and college academics as well as adjust to living on their own for likely the first time in their lives

Any 125’s still in the portal?

Ah, I see, you were referring to “Michigan 125,” haha

I’m sure D1 athletes are a small fraction of the number, so I think even the 35% is pretty significant.

West looks like he could be decent. Only loss was to Heinselman 3-2 and was 25-2 in redshirt last year

McHenry lost to Gonzales and Mauger. Medley lost to Koontz (and McHenry). Gonzales looked decent in the wrestleoff against Heinselman, and beat Koontz himself, but he also lost to MSU’s Benny Gomez and NIU’s Blake West. Mauger lost to Koontz and West as well.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=569 Looks like as of 2015-2016, 56% took longer than 4 years, so he’s technically correct. But that does appear to be driven by older students. “Only” 35% of students 23 or younger took longer than 4 years. But I guess guys like Daton Fix (could be wrong) probably would have been 23 even if they graduated in 4 years

I think the main argument in that regard from @Dark Energy was essentially that for every 4 athletes that receive a full scholarship for 5 years, that could be converted to 5 athletes getting a full scholarship for 4 years. I guess that would be a benefit, but IMO does not outweigh the current benefits of redshirting. I also found it weird that he apparently has no issue with grayshirting. Grayshirting is more of gaming the system to me and for the most part is only an option for those that can afford it. And if redshirting were eliminated you can be sure that more coaches will encourage grayshirting which would not be a positive IMO.

Saw that Kurt McHenry beat Medley at the MSU open (speaking of which, does anyone have a link to brackets? I don’t see it on Floarena and keep getting error messages or prior year brackets on Track). But also lost to Andre Gonzales of tOSU and Kase Mauger of UVU. And Medley also lost to Brady Koontz of tOSU. Is Medley still the guy here?

Is there anything stopping a college student from participating in band, plays, etc for 5, 6, 7 years as long as they fulfill their requirements? I would argue athletics are MORE restrictive than other in-school activities, not less. (I don’t think comparing to academic classes is fair though, as athletes are students too. But yes, regular students can delay taking certain classes if they want, or even *gasp* take 5 years to graduate)

I think this is the first I’ve heard of someone arguing the current generation of kids being more prepared academically than in the past. What about all that time they spend on their phones!! I would say for academic reasons, or more specifically, adjusting to college while at the same time the rigor or D1 athletics, is the main reason for redshirting IMO. I would agree that athletically, more guys are ready to compete right away. And more have been! But that isn’t the case for everyone

Terukina over 2x AA Eric Barnett

Any chance Ramos MFF’s?

What was that?

I guess this can be the Clarion Open thread? I assume Jack Pletcher is Luke’s brother? Was he a good recruit?