uncle bernard

refreshing

they’ve offered. israel said no. this isn’t about hostages.

2) There a range of opinions within antizionism. I think the best way to look at it is that it *is* against Israel *as it currently exists,* but a different version of Israel, one that respects the sovereignty of a neighbor Palestinian state would be acceptable. Same thing apples to "from the river to the sea." "Palestine will be free" could come in a variety of forms, from two sovereign states to one state with a different government. In this second case, both Israel and Palestine would no longer exist in their current form. All the people would still be there living under one set of laws. I imagine many of Hamas' members imagine a theocratic state where they reconstruct Israel in muslim form. This would be a disaster, but I feel pretty confident that there is no scenario where this would ever happen. 3) My local protest has a mini library, art station, volleyball and hula-hooping. Not very Hamas-ian to say the least lol. The targeting of civilians is unacceptable in all forms by all parties. As an occupied people, Hamas has the right to strike Israeli military targets. That's war. Civilians are off limits and the organizers of 10/7 should be held accountable for those crimes.

The bashing of humanities and arts degrees is going to look silly in 15-20 years when AI replaces STEM, CS and business jobs. People with humanities degrees already perform very well against non-humanities degrees over the long term. It's only going to get worse for STEM, CS and Business degrees as AI expands. The CS market is already cratering. If you have college-aged kids or will in the future, I highly recommend pushing a humanities minor at the very least. The skillset you learn from that is extremely valuable for advancement beyond your introductory position.

I'm sorry, you think the frat boys are the good guys here? I'm begging you to go back and look at the student movements of the past and ask how well the behavior of the counter-protestors aged. These frat boys have their picture in a history book one day just like the guys in the south protesting integration.

Sorry, I've been slammed the last few days. The full demand goes beyond that, yes. 1) The demand of the college protests specifically is for divestment. Most of these universities invest money or provide support to Israeli Military Operations or companies that do. Students don't want their tuition dollars invested in things they find evil. This is built on the tradition of the South African divestment movement back in the 80s. One student at the protest I attend has lost over 10 family members, mostly women and children, in the last 6 months. He doesn't want his tuition dollars supporting that. 2) Antizionism is the core of the overall protest movement. There's a lot of slippage in the coverage of what that means and chants that are against Israel's "existence." We certainly don't support the state of Israel's existence as it *currently exists.* That does not refer to the existence of Israeli's as individuals. Every person has the right to live peacefully with equal protection under the law. That is an American value. There are a range of opinions on what that might look like, from a two state solution where Israel ends the blockade of Gaza and occupation of the West Bank and Palestine receives official statehood to a one state solution where the Palestinian and Israeli populations are integrated under one secular government with equal rights for all "from the river to the sea." 3) I can't speak for everyone in the movement. Every protest movement will have people within it with bad opinions. I will say for certain, if you talk to most of the people involved, they will strongly decry the murder of civilians on 10/7 along with the murder of civilians by both sides before and after. I have not seen a lick of pro-Hamas sentiment in my protest, which involves hundreds of people, yet coverage of us routinely describes that sentiment is present. I can't speak to every protest but the gap between the media coverage of us and what is actually happening is insane. I suspect that applies to most locations too.

i’ll respond later. don’t have time now

looking forward to the outrage on here over this *actual* violence

@BuckyBadger and this number skews much higher the younger you go. the majority of 20 year old jews in this country are anti-zionist. unfortunately, (antisemitic) people can’t wrap their heads around jews not having dual loyalty.

you can always tell when willie starts drinking lol

imagine thinking people different from you also deserve basic human rights. i imagine that’s pretty hard for a racist to understand but hopefully you do someday!

there are also antizionist jews and muslims being threatened by zionists and right wingers. you don’t seem to care much. *guy who thinks it’s okay to kill 15k children*: patriot *guy who doesn’t*: terrorist your moral clarity is astounding willie

their is a huge anti-zionist movement among young american jews. assuming all jews must be zionist is antisemitic. i was introduced to this issue in college by my jewish anti-zionist friends. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/22/opinion/israel-american-jews-zionism.html “In 2021, even before Israel’s current far-right government took power, the Jewish Electorate Institute found that 38 percent of American Jewish voters under the age of 40 viewed Israel as an apartheid state, compared with 47 percent who said it’s not.”

i’m not asking for sympathy. just pointing out your hypocrisy. you pull the race card because you know you can’t talk your way around 15k dead children who you don’t care about because they’re not white. racist.

willie keeps doing the slippery thing where he specifies jewish students to imply it’s because they’re jewish and that they’re not subject to the same blockade everybody is and then whenever you ask him to demonstrate that they’re actually being targeted he backs down.

what a novel concept

1) You said you didn't support ethnic cleansing, you support [insert the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing] 2) can you send me videos of people saying they were paid. i want my check! 3) I'm not sure what any of this means. 4) Because these students (and myself) believe in a universal set of human rights regardless of what those people might believe. That consistency is essential. When you stray from it you get into a relativistic mindset that can be used to justify almost any crime. Highlighted section #1) 100%. That's a normal human reaction! Now, imagine living in an occupied strip of land with no resources and you have a gun pointed at you every time you want to cross the street. imagine your family across the street gets incinerated one night because Israel thinks one of them might be Hamas. Imagine living in a house for 50 years and then one day a settler family escorted by the IDF knocks on your door and tells you it's their house now. That's the reality of life in Gaza and the West Bank and that's why the current violence will only perpetuate this cycle. Palestinians see Israeli violence as a justification for their violence. Israelis see Palestinian violence as a justification for their violence. There is no military solution to this problem that doesn't involve genocide and/or ethnic cleansing, and even then you likely only bolster the militant movement in surrounding nations. You think I want Hamas to persist. That's not true. I just don't think this is the way to accomplish it. It's not going to work. Highlighted section #2) Why can't you apply that to the inarguably larger number of Americans being assaulted for peacefully protesting? My protest is 100% peaceful with both Jewish and Muslim religious ceremonies taking place. Food is shared. Songs are sung. Students are writing their final papers out in the sun. We are totally out of the way of any campus activity in the specifically designated campus protest area, which has been used for decades. Zero students have been blocked from campus. And yet, twice we were assaulted by police in riot gear with snipers on the roof. Where are the tears for us?

And how is that republic put in place?

1) You've made more than one mistake. You didn't even know what ethnic cleansing meant. And yes I looked at the links and saw those reports last night. It's like clockwork. They do this every time there's a protest. 2) Organizations involved certainly receive donations. If you think a large number of the protesters are paid to be there, you're wrong. I've been there everyday with dozens of friends and none of us are getting paid. This is a classic line that's been used for years and years. Every grassroots protest is secretly organized and paid for by a secret cabal. They said it about civil rights, vietnam, south african apartheid, etc... People just care a lot about these issues and are willing to show up. Why is that hard to believe? You don't think a thousand people in a city of 8 million could show up on their own? Plus, you underestimate how enjoyable these protests are. Getting to break bread with people you like and meet new friends is fun! Not everybody wants to scroll on twitter all day, every day. 3) Give me an example 4) The average student protester knows even more. They would dance circles around you on this because they've actually done research for years and not just read a few tweets and an occasional wikipedia article in the last 6 months.

Given your butchering of the basic facts of this conflict on here, you don't get to say people don't know anything about the cause. The average protester (and counter-protester) knows 100x more about this than you. And yes, George Soros, a jew, clearly hates the jews. Ironic that we've circled back around to this. Soros, for years, has been the figurehead of right-wing antisemitic conspiracy and paranoia. Now the same people say he's actually attacking jews and they're defending them.

Warrants for Hamas leaders are being proposed in the same process by the ICC. All of this information is out there if you cared to look for it.