uncle bernard

Which has a greater impact in the actual world?

Yeah, this has been obvious for a long time to anybody with a brain. Dude is on camera referring to him as a good friend who likes young girls and that still wasn't enough for his supporters lol.

Exactly. So which has a bigger impact? 2% on $10 million or 4% on 100k

True. That is exactly what they did to Obama when he let his own tax cuts expire.

This stuff is fine, but the bulk of the tax savings go to the richest. I consider it a tax cut because they were supposed to expire. They had to actively extend them. That's not functionally different than when they did it the first time.

1) If you care about the deficit, then yes, you should be outraged. It's an extension of policy that increases the deficit when it was set to expire. 2) Don't be stupid. A 4% cut on the middle class is peanuts compared to a 2% cut to the top 1%. That's why we have a progressive tax system.

The tax cuts are what balloon the deficit *in this bill.* That's what they're actually changing. If they did nothing and let the cuts expire, the deficit would grow minimally.

The biggest part is the extension of the 2017 tax cuts that were set to expire, summarized here (Trump's rates bolded: 10% up to $9,525, versus 10% up to $9,325 under existing law; 12% from $9,526 to $38,700, versus 15% on $9,326 to $37,950; 22% on $38,701 to $82,500, versus 25% on $37,951 to $91,900; 24% on $82,501 to $157,500, versus 28% on $91,901 to $191,650; 32% on $157,501 to $200,000, versus 33% on $191,651 to $416,700; 35% on $200,001 to $500,000, versus 35% on $416,701 to $418,400; 37% above $500,000, versus 2017’s 39.6% above $418,400. Most of those benefits were concentrated in the top tax bracket. A 2% decrease on billions is a lot more than a 4% decrease on $100k. Analysis of effects of the current bill: "Extending the expiring 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) would decrease federal tax revenue by $4.5 trillion from 2025 through 2034. Long-run GDP would be 1.1 percent higher, offsetting $710 billion, or 16 percent, of the revenue losses. Long-run GNP (a measure of American incomes) would only rise by 0.4 percent, as some of the benefits of the tax cuts and larger economy go to foreigners in the form of higher interest payments on the debt." https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tax-cuts-2025-budget-reconciliation/

This happens during every Republican administration. Dems spend too, but they don't pair that spending with massive tax cuts, primarily for the rich and corporations. The tax cuts are what blow up the deficit. The "national debt" is just a political prop they use to advocate against spending on things they disagree with ideologically (healthcare, welfare, public research, etc...). They don't actually care about reducing it. If they did, they would pair spending cuts with tax increases. This is why, historically, the deficit always goes up under Republican administrations, while it usually shrinks under Democrats. Personally, I think focus on the debt is way overblown. The government budget does not function like a family budget. Anytime the government runs a surplus, that means they're sucking money out of the economy arbitrarily. Every cent, and more, should be spent back into the economy. My disagreement with the Republicans is how they do it, not that they do it. Trickle down doesn't work.

Gibberish.

First, thank you for being far more reasonable than the rest of the crew on here. Reasoned, intelligent thoughts are very welcome on this topic. Where I'd push back is that you can't separate the current support of Hamas from the bad faith dealings of Israel following Oslo. People support Hamas because they don't believe the peace process is possible. When it looked possible, they supported it. That's why I think we have such an important role to play. In order for this to be solved in a way that doesn't include genocide and/or ethnic cleansing, Israel needs to "be the bigger person" in order to reestablish trust in a peace process. That means not responding with overwhelming force every time Hamas fires rockets. Obviously, they'll never do this on their own accord, which is why we need to be the ones who make them. This doesn't mean letting Hamas run rampant. They should bolster their defenses along the border to prevent future attacks like 10/7, which was a huge outlier in terms of its success. Without further massive defense failures like that, very few Israelis would ever be in danger from Hamas. Bolster the borders around Gaza (and remove the settlements right along the border), start negotiating with the PA, pull back the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and you will weaken Hamas far more than the current bombardment does. It will take time. Hamas will still attempt attacks. But if Israel shows restraint and good faith, people will see there's another way. We saw that in the 90's. It can happen again.

They never fully gave Gaza back. They kept it under siege the entire time, which severely limited any sort of possible development, while also continuing to bomb it the entire time. They are very open about this. They refer to it as keeping the Palestinians "on a diet."

This is explicitly an argument for genocide.

Have you ever seen a conservative tweet you didn't immediately believe?

read the shortened version then. Again, you correctly see my point without realizing it. We can't control Hamas. They are a terror group and death cult. We can control Israel. We can prevent Israel from perpetuating the system that feeds Hamas. Here's a concrete example for you to consider: Hamas does not control the Palestinian West Bank. The PA does and the PA is not a terror group. They are secular and interested in peace. Israel could empower the PA by dealing with them fairly in the West Bank, showing Gazans that there is a legitimate path to peace through diplomacy. Instead, Israel continues to steal Palestinian land in the West Bank through illegal settlements. They continue to terrorize Palestinian neighborhoods with police brutality. By doing this, they affirm Palestinians' belief that there is no path to peace through diplomacy. Military action is the only possible path to freedom, no matter how unlikely, no matter how bloody. That's how Hamas recruits.

Let me know which questions I haven't answered and I'll answer. Keep in mind, it's basically me vs. the board, so it's not easy for me to keep track of every reply. But the whole point of being on here is to debate, and I'm never afraid to do that.

Lol, good effort, but no. The things I complained about did happen. The Supreme Court did take away the universal right to an abortion. Conservative state governments are harassing families with trans children, and making it harder for all trans people to access trans-related medical care - like making it not eligible for Medicaid, for example.

It's unclear because it's early in the process. These things take time. 1 charge filed so far. Police are still in the process of reviewing cases. Comment from the prosecutor's office No charging decisions have been made," said prosecutor's spokesperson Casey McNerthney. "That means no charges have been filed. No charges have been dismissed. Prosecutors can only make decisions, one way or the other, on cases that are referred to our office – and none have been.

Again, you correctly see my point without realizing it. We can't control Hamas. They are a terror group and death cult. We can control Israel. We can prevent Israel from perpetuating the system that feeds Hamas. Here's a concrete example for you to consider: Hamas does not control the Palestinian West Bank. The PA does and the PA is not a terror group. They are secular and interested in peace. Israel could empower the PA by dealing with them fairly in the West Bank, showing Gazans that there is a legitimate path to peace through diplomacy. Instead, Israel continues to steal Palestinian land in the West Bank through illegal settlements. They continue to terrorize Palestinian neighborhoods with police brutality. By doing this, they affirm Palestinians' belief that there is no path to peace through diplomacy. Military action is the only possible path to freedom, no matter how unlikely, no matter how bloody. That's how Hamas recruits. This isn't speculation. We've seen this born out in history. The height of the Palestinian peace-through-diplomacy movement peaked at the Oslo Accords. At that time, there was tremendous optimism about a political solution that achieved freedom for Palestine. The PLO (ancestor of the PA) was far, far more popular than the militant resistant groups. So, what happened? Israel didn't follow through on the agreed plans. They did not withdraw their military from the West Bank. Israeli extremists carried out a terror attack - The Cave of the Patriarchs Massacre - which was followed by suicide bombings from Hamas in response. Israeli leader of the Oslo talks, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, was assassinated by far-right Israeli extremists. Israel reneged on most of the deal conditions and the fundamental conditions of Palestine did not change despite the treaty. Following this, military resistance grew in popularity, culminating in Hamas' victory over the PA in the elections of 2006 with a minority of the vote. So ask yourself, if you were a Palestinian who spent decades advocating for diplomacy and peace, only to see the deal be completely unraveled by Israel after they agreed to it, why would you continue to think peace talks are a reasonable path forward? At every step, Israel has shown it is not willing to acknowledge a Palestinian state through diplomatic processes. But WE could change that. We have the power to restrain Israel, so that peace has a chance. Is this "fair?" No, life isn't fair. We don't have influence over Hamas like we do with Israel. We can only work with the tools we have. So they need to be the ones who turn the other cheek. The West can protect them while they take an entirely defensive stance to slowly regain the trust of their neighbors and give new legitimacy to a diplomatic peace process. That means they can't respond to a rocket damaging a sidewalk by levelling an apartment building. They can't respond to Hamas killing 1000 civilians by killing 50,000 civilians themselves. There is no peace in that future.

Half this country supported turning Iraq to rubble as revenge for 9/11...and Iraq didn't even do 9/11! Gazans have experienced 9/11 every year for the last 70 years. If you stop murdering civilians and give people rights, they will deradicalize. Right now, their only experience of Israel is as "the people who kill my loved ones."

You have stats showing that most people in Gaza voted for Hamas? Post them here!

I don't support Hamas either. I just explained how I want them to be defeated.

Exactly. It's almost as Hamas won a tightly contested election with a minority of votes and then promptly dissolved the democratic apparatus so they could never lose power.... Your guys' worldview is so contradictory. You don't even realize it most of the time. You correctly understand that Hamas is a brutal military terrorist group that runs Gaza under a military dictatorship, but then can't understand why the Gazans don't simply vote them out. Maybe if you stopped for two seconds to actually think instead of regurgitating propaganda and cliches, you'd see these very obvious flaws in your arguments. Just like @Interviewed_at_Weehawken, who, without realizing it, perfectly laid out why Israel's current military strategy is doomed to failure because it plays right into Hamas' source of power. You guys are capable of understanding this stuff if you think for yourselves. Well, at least *some* of you...

Especially crazy considering most *didn't* vote for Hamas. Only like 10%, maybe even less, of the Gazan population has ever voted for Hamas.

It actually wasn't, which is why 10/7 happened in the first place.