Vega: Gamplan

[jackwebster]

I was watching a podcast ("Weighing In"?), and they reviewed the Vega / Peterson match. The review moved to a discussion of Vega's recent decision to just not shoot at all and how to exploit it. 

Imagine this ~~~~ (dream waves): You're Dresser (or whoever ... pick a team). What's the game plan? Do you hope your guy will be the first to take him down? Do you choose bottom? Do you try pick up two stall points and then just look at him? Do you settle for one stall point, wait for ride outs, choose neutral, and win on a few seconds of riding time? 

 

Edit: ohh... I guess any team other than tOSU.

Edited March 1 by jackwebster

[jackwebster]

180 views and no takers. So, it's either a stupid premise, an enigma wrapped in a riddle, or Sunday morning. But here's my plans for Eche:

1. To get a takedown outright: Attack his left leg, preferrably above the knee. However, this is dangerous bc circling to your right opens up Vega's best leg attack, that elbow control, knee dip, knee pull. So, you gotta circle left to square his stance and somehow attack across his body. Idk. Good luck.

2. To win by some accumulation of stalls: Same as the first match, but never ever ever fully commit to the finish. He'll give you his left leg. Just reach and he picks it up for you. You could grab it and move him around a couple of steps. But when he hips in the with whizzer just let go and start again. You won't be able to push him out of bounds, so forget getting an easy stall. Im not sure how many of these "attempts" it will take to get the first stall. Better hope it's in the first bc you gotta get the second in the second period. You cant wait til the third bc the ref won't want to decide the match. 

[HokieDave87]

4 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I was watching a podcast ("Weighing In"?), and they reviewed the Vega / Peterson match. The review moved to a discussion of Vega's recent decision to just not shoot at all and how to exploit it. 

Imagine this ~~~~ (dream waves): You're Dresser (or whoever ... pick a team). What's the game plan? Do you hope your guy will be the first to take him down? Do you choose bottom? Do you try pick up two stall points and then just look at him? Do you settle for one stall point, wait for ride outs, choose neutral, and win on a few seconds of riding time? 

 

Edit: ohh... I guess any team other than tOSU.

For VT: Accumulate team points at a weight that isn't 141

[ionel]

Why not just take him down, that'd be 3pt instead of the "maybe" 1pt in the above game plan?  

[jackwebster]

17 minutes ago, ionel said:

Why not just take him down, that'd be 3pt instead of the "maybe" 1pt in the above game plan?  

Well, yeah. That's the question. How do you take him down? No one has this year. So, how would you solve the problem? I assume some coaches have already tried, "Go take him down." 

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Well, yeah. That's the question. How do you take him down? No one has this year. So, how would you solve the problem? I assume some coaches have already tried, "Go take him down." 

Just seems like a better plan (ask Carl) work on how to take him down instead of how to stall your way into victory.  

[jackwebster]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Just seems like a better plan (ask Carl) work on how to take him down instead of how to stall your way into victory.  

Correct. So, I ask you again: How would you go about coaching your guy up . . . beyond saying, "Go get a takedown"? 

I got it: Shoot the hi-c. Wait til he sits the corner and locks up the craddle. Then stop the match and declare the move doesn't exist.

 

 

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Vega seemed to struggle with Ech's size and physicality previously, so maybe use that as a starting point? If he's not going to shoot and wants to score off of scrambles, use strength advantage and wear him down Hard constant snaps, heavy hands, close distance, control head and elbow. Look for opportunities to blast through a double, or a go-behind or a high finish pick, something along those lines where Vega can't grab an ankle and spaghetti through a position. Look for neutral danger when scrambling. Maybe take top and get the RT? Flatten him out, Zain style hammerlocks and bars, hard mat returns. Peterson had a nice half sunk in and iirc may have been able to cash it in if he wasn't working with short time. 

[Booger]

Vega: GAM plan?

(Man, I feel like we just took a trip back to the '40's... if THAT'S the Plan, then check out the above gams!)

[Hammerlock3]

i assume the plan would be to ride him. I couldn't believe peterson shot as much as he did.

[jackwebster]

59 minutes ago, Booger said:

Vega: GAM plan?

(Man, I feel like we just took a trip back to the '40's... if THAT'S the Plan, then check out the above gams!)

I was wondering how long it would take. Tbh I wasnt even aware of the term until a couple weeks ago and saw it in the new Pynchon novel.

[jackwebster]

20 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i assume the plan would be to ride him. I couldn't believe peterson shot as much as he did.

Me either, esp since he kept attacking that lead leg. Vega "almost had it" ... what ... three times? 

Re ride: Didn't Eche basically let him up? 

[MPhillips]

12 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Tbh I wasnt even aware of the term until a couple weeks ago

I always believed you were part of the Webster dictionary family. It doesn't appear you're even Merrian...

[Hammerlock3]

15 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Me either, esp since he kept attacking that lead leg. Vega "almost had it" ... what ... three times? 

Re ride: Didn't Eche basically let him up? 

weird memory for me, I placed literally the largest bet I've ever placed on OSU minus 11.5, so when Peterson went out shooting I was too relieved to even notice how stupid he was being. Echemendia is a a weird case because his wrestling IQ on the mat is really low and his deep tie ups and body locks are SO strong that shooting never had to enter in to the equation. Echemendia might be the worst style match up for him in the NCAA (i think Vega is still the most underrated in the NCAA)...I'd think a more traditional folkstyler would do it differently. 

[Truzzcat]

5 hours ago, jackwebster said:

180 views and no takers. So, it's either a stupid premise, an enigma wrapped in a riddle, or Sunday morning. But here's my plans for Eche:

1. To get a takedown outright: Attack his left leg, preferrably above the knee. However, this is dangerous bc circling to your right opens up Vega's best leg attack, that elbow control, knee dip, knee pull. So, you gotta circle left to square his stance and somehow attack across his body. Idk. Good luck.

2. To win by some accumulation of stalls: Same as the first match, but never ever ever fully commit to the finish. He'll give you his left leg. Just reach and he picks it up for you. You could grab it and move him around a couple of steps. But when he hips in the with whizzer just let go and start again. You won't be able to push him out of bounds, so forget getting an easy stall. Im not sure how many of these "attempts" it will take to get the first stall. Better hope it's in the first bc you gotta get the second in the second period. You cant wait til the third bc the ref won't want to decide the match. 

I think ability on top and bottom has allowed him to wrestle the way he does on his feet. I personally think however that he is much better when he is getting to legs. His best performances to me this year were the first Hardy match, the Manville match, and the Consiglio match in all those matches he was getting to legs and he was able to separate by forcing wrestling positions. His worst matches to me were the Titus, Bailey, and Peterson matches. I think he is much better than all of them but he let the match come to him rather than going and taking it which kept them within the margins.

[jackwebster]

50 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

I always believed you were part of the Webster dictionary family. It doesn't appear you're even Merrian...

Haha. I'm sure it comes of as affected, but -- for better or worse -- this is just how I talk. Unfortunately for my daughter, I saddled her with it too. Kids are kinda d*cks about this sorta thing.

[jackwebster]

5 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

His best performances to me this year were the first Hardy match, the Manville match, and the Consiglio match in all those matches he was getting to legs

Agree. In all of those matches (pretty sure), he started with a head-oustide hi-c species of attack but ended-up splitting his opponent's legs and getting both feet off the mat. He does something weird with his right hand .. idk ... he turns his thumb down and reaches to the inside of their left heel when they block his elbow to stop the change off to the double

[AgaveMaria]

Hard neck pressure & repeated blast doubles - with a Firemans Carry in the mix.

Unrelenting pressure on him & the change up with the firemans will tire & confuse him.

Can't let him rest, not for a second. If he backs up, push him hard. If he tries to stand & move, attack and force him hard.

He won't stand up to the constant pressure.