Seidel vs Forrest 2/15

[ScottishSteel]

24 minutes ago, ionel said:

This is a year when most folks want to miss the forrest! 

Stanford?

[ionel]

Watch the Stilly Boys:  Day in the Life with Jax Forrest video.  

Edited February 11 by ionel

[ionel]

Been suggested Jax and Ronnie both "probable" for VT.  

[creek chub]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Been suggested Jax and Ronnie both "probable" for VT.  

Just peeking at the VT board, they seem split on whether Jax wrestles at VT. Some of the posters seem more like Ok State fans vs VT fans so maybe there is some inside knowledge being posted there 

[HokieDave87]

3 hours ago, creek chub said:

Just peeking at the VT board, they seem split on whether Jax wrestles at VT. Some of the posters seem more like Ok State fans vs VT fans so maybe there is some inside knowledge being posted there 

Looked at the board and it seems they're basing it on RR being at 5 dates already when he's actually at 4. I expect to see RR but would be pleasantly surprised if Jax showed up.

As for seeding will Jax see both Larkin and Frost at Big 12's or will he see the winner? If he sees only one Seidel might be in line for the 2, if he beats both I can see Jax getting the 2. Usually wouldn't be a big deal between 2/3 but with the depth at 133 it could be a big difference in QF matches.

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, Coastal said:

And that's a shame if Jax or Seidel get the two or three when the best three in Byrd, Blaze and Davino are all in the same conference and have all wrestled all year instead of feasting on opens with half a schedule.

 

Are you saying that Blaze and Davino should've known that Byrd was at Illinois and enrolled at Lehigh and Ark Little Rock instead?  Kind've on them don't ya think. 

[creek chub]

35 minutes ago, Coastal said:

And that's a shame if Jax or Seidel get the two or three when the best three in Byrd, Blaze and Davino are all in the same conference and have all wrestled all year instead of feasting on opens with half a schedule.

 

You are absolutely right! Seidel is completely at fault for being out the first part of the season with an injury and planned on redshirting. 
 

And he certainly should have known Campbell was going to have a season ending injury. Shame on Seidel…sarcasm 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, HokieDave87 said:

Looked at the board and it seems they're basing it on RR being at 5 dates already when he's actually at 4. I expect to see RR but would be pleasantly surprised if Jax showed up.

As for seeding will Jax see both Larkin and Frost at Big 12's or will he see the winner? If he sees only one Seidel might be in line for the 2, if he beats both I can see Jax getting the 2. Usually wouldn't be a big deal between 2/3 but with the depth at 133 it could be a big difference in QF matches.

How is Ramirez not at 5 dates?

1 NDI

2 Cougar Clash first semester opens need to be attached 

3 WV dual 12/14

4) Nebraska dual 12/21

5) Little Rock dual 2/6

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Coastal said:

No, I'm saying that small conferences should be treated as what they are.  A really good start would be to have placement points in the matrix be how many places a wrestler places above the autoqualifying place for that conference.  Your conference has 10 autoqualifying spots and you take 1st, you get 9 points, 2nd, 8 points.   If your conference has three autoqualifying spots, a wrestler get 2 points for 1st.    Also if only the conference champion autoqualifies, that wrestler doesn't count as a quality opponent in the matrix.

 

Why not just have one conference?  

[HokieDave87]

47 minutes ago, Coastal said:

And that's a shame if Jax or Seidel get the two or three when the best three in Byrd, Blaze and Davino are all in the same conference and have all wrestled all year instead of feasting on opens with half a schedule.

 

One guy skipped half his senior year of HS to compete and the other pulled a RS after an injury to compete. With the opportunity given to them they've both embarrassed some quality opponents. 

[HokieDave87]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

How is Ramirez not at 5 dates?

1 NDI

2 Cougar Clash first semester opens need to be attached 

3 WV dual 12/14

4) Nebraska dual 12/21

5) Little Rock dual 2/6

Was counting the Open as unattached. Maybe he can't go and we do see Jax/Seidel? 

[1032004]

5 minutes ago, Coastal said:

I believe the Cougar Clash was considered 2nd semester since it was after the first semester ended.

Hmm.  Looks like “class work” ended on 12/5, but finals were 12/8-12/12.  Cougar Clash was 12/7.  I would think it would have to be after finals, but who knows…

https://registrar.okstate.edu/academic_calendar/academic-calendar-fall-2025

Edited February 12 by 1032004

[creek chub]

10 minutes ago, Coastal said:

It's not his fault but he and Forrest shouldn't be rewarded for wrestling a partial schedule and being in weaker conferences.   Seidel's strongest opponent to date is wrestlestat's #21 Knox.  Davino has seven matches against higher ranked opponents and has Blaze this weekend and has to beat Byrd/Blaze or both to win his conference.

He majored Knox who at that time was #7 and returning AA. To date, that’s the worst beating Knox took this season. Plus he tech’s Shawyver who doesn’t seem to be hitting on cylinders but it was a dominant win

[dwoods]

It doesn’t matter. Blaze is a true generational talent. Term very overused but nobody has a shot against this kid. Forest right behind but they both handle Seidel who’s a stud quite handily. 

[RawDog]

Just curious, why do you think blaze is better than Jax?  Jax was our world team rep and handled world champion vito.

[ionel]

[HokieDave87]

26 minutes ago, RawDog said:

Just curious, why do you think blaze is better than Jax?  Jax was our world team rep and handled world champion vito.

Blaze has the H2H advantage but they've both developed, Blaze is World team caliber. I also think Seidel can compete with both in Folkstyle. Seidel was very close to knocking off Jax in HS and he even surprised Robie with how much he's improved since then. 

[HokieDave87]

3 minutes ago, Coastal said:

He wasn't really close to knocking off Forrest and I say that as a Seidel fan who was mentioning him at the start of the season.  The 11-4 match was never in doubt from the start and the State Finals match felt like Forrest was never in any real trouble before he sealed it with the TD to win 7-1.  If anything, they showed that Seidel can't turn Forrest and Forrest is better on his feet.

Agree to disagree on the state final match, Seidel was looking close to tying it up but Forrest was able to scramble out and then he got the last TD when Seidel took a desperation shot with a few seconds left. 

Seidel also got beat by Cortez 6-1 with 2 TD's to 0 on their feet a few months later. This season Seidel TF'd Cortez 15-0 and in neutral it was 2 TD's to 0. Not saying that will definitely translate to a guy that's at Forrest's level but we're looking at a different version of Seidel and I'd like to see the match. 

[HokieDave87]

4 minutes ago, Coastal said:

I just hope that Seidel doesn't play the take it to ride outs game from the opening whistle when he gets up against tougher opponents.

Just from the eye test he looks aggressive on his feet, he defends with the intent to score not with the intent to stalemate and looks confident in all positions. It would be pretty disappointing to see that change based on the opponent. 

[happyvalet]

7 hours ago, Coastal said:

It's not his fault but he and Forrest shouldn't be rewarded for wrestling a partial schedule and being in weaker conferences.   Seidel's strongest opponent to date is wrestlestat's #21 Knox.  Davino has seven matches against higher ranked opponents and has Blaze this weekend and has to beat Byrd/Blaze or both to win his conference.

Big 12 isn't a weak conference and certainly isn't weak at 133. 

[happyvalet]

5 hours ago, HokieDave87 said:

Blaze is World team caliber. 

Age division world team 

Edited February 12 by happyvalet

[creek chub]

7 hours ago, Coastal said:

I just hope that Seidel doesn't play the take it to ride outs game from the opening whistle when he gets up against tougher 

This season, he has a 100% bonus point rate. Only one match went the full 7 minutes which was a major against the #7 Knox. When he is on top, he is always looking for turns and so far is getting them, even late in the period. You don’t need to worry about him riding to win and holding onto to a lead. 

[ScottishSteel]

9 hours ago, Coastal said:

No, I'm saying that small conferences should be treated as what they are.  A really good start would be to have placement points in the matrix be how many places a wrestler places above the autoqualifying place for that conference.  Your conference has 10 autoqualifying spots and you take 1st, you get 9 points, 2nd, 8 points.   If your conference has three autoqualifying spots, a wrestler get 2 points for 1st.    Also if only the conference champion autoqualifies, that wrestler doesn't count as a quality opponent in the matrix.

 

If I'm understanding your proposal correctly, this would also hurt the small school (or even just a small conference) when they do have a top end guy - think like Zeth Romney last year or Shapiro if 157 was down in the Ivy; your proposal is basically burying them because their conference doesn't have as many AQ slots as the Big Ten.

[creek chub]

32 minutes ago, Coastal said:

I said when he gets up against a tough wrestler.   You keep pointing out Knox like it's a huge accomplishment, he's #21 on wrestlestat for a reason as he doesn't have a decent win all season and has lost to anyone with a pulse.

Knox is ranked #7 by both Flo and intermat. So, yes a major decision against Knox is pretty impressive. In fact, that loss by Knox was like the only time he gave up bonus points in his college career

[1032004]

35 minutes ago, Coastal said:

I said when he gets up against a tough wrestler.   You keep pointing out Knox like it's a huge accomplishment, he's #21 on wrestlestat for a reason as he doesn't have a decent win all season and has lost to anyone with a pulse.

I see him as #18.  He doesn’t have any good wins, but his only losses in matches wrestled were to Seidel, Blaze and Larkin who are a combined 42-1.  He has a MFF loss which seems to be hurting his rating there.