Jonathan Ross. Over 10,000 people have donated to a go fund-me someone has started for him. They have raised right at 500K so far.

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, mspart said:

It's insurance in case the people threatening to kill him carry out their desire.   You may consider this murder, but that is demonstrably not the case.  Murder is a very strong word that is associated with intent to kill.   Like in premeditated.  Like he planned to kill someone in that instance because he wanted to.  

Now it is apparent it was not murder.   Wrongfully killed or manslaughter, perhaps.   But he was hit by the car and I can see his reaction to that as a defense mechanism.   I can see both arguments that he shouldn't have fired or that it was acceptable based on him getting hit by a runaway van.   Either way, it was not murder.  

mspart

The officer suffered internal bleeding in his torso too.   Fwiw 

[wrestlingguy]

8 minutes ago, mspart said:

It's insurance in case the people threatening to kill him carry out their desire.   You may consider this murder, but that is demonstrably not the case.  Murder is a very strong word that is associated with intent to kill.   Like in premeditated.  Like he planned to kill someone in that instance because he wanted to.  

Now it is apparent it was not murder.   Wrongfully killed or manslaughter, perhaps.   But he was hit by the car and I can see his reaction to that as a defense mechanism.   I can see both arguments that he shouldn't have fired or that it was acceptable based on him getting hit by a runaway van.   Either way, it was not murder.  

mspart

But the most trusted person on the planet, Hillary Clinton, called it murder so it must be so.

[mspart]

10 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

But the most trusted person on the planet, Hillary Clinton, called it murder so it must be so.

Normally I would trust the judgement of such a great person as H. Clinton, but in this case, I think she is jumping to conclusions without all the facts.   If murder = killing, then I guess so.  But it doesn't because as we all learned in math, if a=b, then b=a.   Murder = killing.   Killing ≠ murder.   So they are not the same.   

Murder is defined as:   https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+murder&sca_esv=cbcc352c89b9e229&source=hp&ei=tOVnaeD6II-b0PEPvKq5iQ0&iflsig=AFdpzrgAAAAAaWfzxAPLiCegGdU40K0_IlVRucSXGZot&ved=0ahUKEwjgpJjG2YuSAxWPDTQIHTxVLtEQ4dUDCBY&uact=5&oq=definition+of+murder&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IhRkZWZpbml0aW9uIG9mIG11cmRlcjIQEAAYgAQYsQMYgwEYRhj5ATIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABEjOKVAAWKIkcAN4AJABAJgBqAGgAaMOqgEEMjAuM7gBA8gBAPgBAZgCGKACjA7CAgsQABiABBiRAhiKBcICBRAuGIAEwgIREC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwHCAgsQLhiABBjRAxjHAcICCxAuGIAEGLEDGIMBwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAg4QLhiABBixAxjRAxjHAcICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICFhAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGEMYgwEYxwEYigXCAgoQLhiABBhDGIoFwgITEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxjHARiKBcICEBAAGIAEGJECGIoFGEYY-QHCAhAQABiABBixAxhDGIMBGIoFwgINEAAYgAQYsQMYQxiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgIGEAAYFhgewgIIEAAYFhgKGB7CAgwQABiABBgNGEYY-QHCAgcQABiABBgNwgIKEAAYgAQYRhj5AZgDAJIHBDIwLjSgB7eyAbIHBDE3LjS4B4MOwgcHMC4xMS4xM8gHQoAIAA&sclient=gws-wiz

1. 1.

   the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

   "the stabbing murder of an off-Broadway producer"

    
2. 2.

   informal

   a very difficult or unpleasant task or experience.

   "my first job at the steel mill was murder"

    
3. 3.

   a group of crows.

   "a murder of crows flew past the window"

    

verb

verb: murder; 3rd person present: murders; past tense: murdered; past participle: murdered; gerund or present participle: murdering

1. 1.

   kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

   "somebody tried to murder Joe"

    
2. 2.

   informal

   punish severely or be very angry with.

   "my father will murder me if I'm home late"

    

   I think it is clear by the standards of the definition, it was not murder.   It was situational and ended in a death.  Manslaughter perhaps.   If the officer felt he was in danger, then he had the right to defend himself.   Now, there can be an argument made whether he needed to defend himself or not and I accept that is the case and that is where this argument should remain.   But murder is too strong a word for this situation.   

    

   mspart

[billyhoyle]

On 1/14/2026 at 8:09 AM, Bigbrog said:

How to spot someone who knows absolutely nothing about law enforcement....

Which week in the ICE training academy do they teach you to put your body in front of a car?

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Which week in the ICE training academy do they teach you to put your body in front of a car?

Which week do they teach you it doesn’t matter in any way if the police follow their training or not.  If you drive your car at them you will get shot.   
 

Now he may or may not have followed his training. He may be a moron. He may be a genius.  
 

Neither matters.   That is why one is alive and one is dead 

Edited January 16 by Caveira

[billyhoyle]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Which week do they teach you it doesn’t matter in any way if the police follow their training or not.  If you drive your car at them you will get shot.   
 

Now he may or may not have followed his training. He may be a moron. He may be a genius.  
 

Neither matters.   That is why one is alive and one is dead 

I'm not debating the shooting. I'm just saying the guy is terrible at his job and borderline incompetent for repeatedly walking in front of cars. I am more curious why somebody so poorly trained is an officer than I am about the split-second decision. 

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, billyhoyle said:

I'm not debating the shooting. I'm just saying the guy is terrible at his job and borderline incompetent for repeatedly walking in front of cars. I am more curious why somebody so poorly trained is an officer than I am about the split-second decision. 

Cool.  So you agree the shoot was justified.  That’s the main point.  

[Bigbrog]

2 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Which week in the ICE training academy do they teach you to put your body in front of a car?

Which week do they tell you not to put your body in front of a car?  I can tell you the week they train you to use deadly force when someone uses a vehicle as a deadly weapon.  Do you want to know which week that is??

Seriously...you are obviously focused on a single aspect of what happened...do you care to comment on why she was there in the first place?  Why she didn't listen to LAWFULL commands?  Why did she push her foot down on the accelerator knowing the LEO was walking in front of the vehicle?

[billyhoyle]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Cool.  So you agree the shoot was justified.  That’s the main point.  

I think the shooting is up for debate. The wheels were turning left and not at him, but he may not have realized it. He also probably should have tried to get out of the way of the car rather than opening fire. It could go either way and should be decided by a jury-I'm not the right person to decide if it is criminal.

What I don't think is up for debate is that this guy is clearly incompetent. So it is disturbing that there are these poorly trained ICE officers policing the suburbs. I'd like to see them go after real criminals and not suburban lesbian moms. 

Edited January 16 by billyhoyle

[billyhoyle]

Just now, Bigbrog said:

Which week do they tell you not to put your body in front of a car?  I can tell you the week they train you to use deadly force when someone uses a vehicle as a deadly weapon.  Do you want to know which week that is??

Seriously...you are obviously focused on a single aspect of what happened...do you care to comment on why she was there in the first place?  Why she didn't listen to LAWFULL commands?  Why did she push her foot down on the accelerator knowing the LEO was walking in front of the vehicle?

I'm not debating the shooting. Yes, she was protesting and was being annoying.  None of that changes the fact that the guy is terrible at his job and never should have walked in front of the car. 

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, billyhoyle said:

I'm not debating the shooting. Yes, she was protesting and was being annoying.  None of that changes the fact that the guy is terrible at his job and never should have walked in front of the car. 

Nothing  changes the fact that she shouldn’t rev her engine and drive her car at him.  Tis why she is dead.  She knew he was there.  She was talking to him.   Mocking him.  The whole time. 

[Bigbrog]

1 minute ago, billyhoyle said:

I think the shooting is up for debate. The wheels were turning left and not at him, but he may not have realized it. He also probably should have tried to get out of the way of the car rather than opening fire. It could go either way and should be decided by a jury-I'm not the right person to decide if it is criminal.

What I don't think is up for debate is that this guy is clearly incompetent. So it is disturbing that there are these poorly trained ICE officers policing the suburbs. I'd like to see them go after real criminals and not suburba lesbian moms. 

Based on what??  Please inform us of what training and experience you have been part of to know exactly where and how this guy was clearly incompetent.....

[billyhoyle]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Nothing  changes the fact that she shouldn’t rev her engine and drive her car at him.  Tis why she is dead.  She knew he was there.  She was talking to him.   Mocking him.  The whole time. 

Yeah, I'm not arguing with that. My view is that she acted stupidly and he is an incompetent law enforcement officer. That combination led to the shooting. 

3 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Based on what??  Please inform us of what training and experience you have been part of to know exactly where and how this guy was clearly incompetent.....

6 months ago the guy walked in front of a car with a driver in it. The driver took off and hit the officer.  6 months later, he did the exact same thing and opened fire. How did he not learn that you shouldn't walk in front of a car with a driver in it? The guy literally is an adult who walks in traffic-that is a universal sign of somebody who is incompetent. 

Edited January 16 by billyhoyle

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

I think the shooting is up for debate. The wheels were turning left and not at him, but he may not have realized it. He also probably should have tried to get out of the way of the car rather than opening fire. It could go either way and should be decided by a jury-I'm not the right person to decide if it is criminal.

What I don't think is up for debate is that this guy is clearly incompetent. So it is disturbing that there are these poorly trained ICE officers policing the suburbs. I'd like to see them go after real criminals and not suburban lesbian moms. 

It’s not up to Leo to look below the chassis and see where the wheels are pointed.  It’s extremely possible at that close range he can’t see that.  How close of a range do you say?   Close enough to hit you at such a high rate of speed to cause internal bleeding.

[billyhoyle]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

It’s not up to Leo to look below the chassis and see where the wheels are pointed.  It’s extremely possible at that close range he can’t see that.  How close of a range do you say?   Close enough to hit you at such a high rate of speed to cause internal bleeding.

Great points. That's why it's a questionable call and could go either way. It was a split second decision. We can clearly see from the video that she wasn't going to hit him (and she didn't), but how could he have known that? In no world did he commit premeditated murder.  But did he act recklessly? Did his actions follow the justifiable use of force in his training? Those are questions that a prosecutor and jury should consider and in my view could go either way. They're not something I have an answer to or presume to know.

The only thing that is obvious to me is that he has demonstrated that he is terrible at his job for repeatedly walking in front of cars. 

Edited January 16 by billyhoyle

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

she wasn't going to hit him (and she didn't),

She did hit him.  Your 309% wrong…..  And she caused internal bleeding.  Keep up boss. 

Edited January 16 by Caveira

[Caveira]

19 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

The only thing that is obvious to me is that he has demonstrated that he is terrible at his job for repeatedly walking in front of cars. 

Tbis is literally the only thing that doesn’t matter.   Given we know she almost killed him and hit him at a high enough rate of speed to cause internal bleeding.  
 

Imagine he died and she is in court.    Documentary scene:::
 

judge:  ms rioter.  Why did you think it was cool to try to run him over 

rioter:  your honor.  Honestly.  I am an internet warrior and am familiar with police training.  He wasn’t supposed to walk in front of the car.   I talked to billyhole and the Viking on a wrestling message  board and both of them are familiar somehow with police training and both said he shouldn’t have been there 

judge: so ms rioter what did you do then?

rioter:   Well nothing illegal.  He didn’t follow police training, according to Billyhole, so I ran him over.  I mean.  He was trying to arrest criminal illegal aliens and we can’t have that right?   I mean we hate Trump right?   Right?  We can all agree that  this makes it ok doesn’t it?

judge:   No.  No it doesn’t 

Edited January 16 by Caveira

[JimmySpeaks]

41 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Yeah, I'm not arguing with that. My view is that she acted stupidly and he is an incompetent law enforcement officer. That combination led to the shooting. 

6 months ago the guy walked in front of a car with a driver in it. The driver took off and hit the officer.  6 months later, he did the exact same thing and opened fire. How did he not learn that you shouldn't walk in front of a car with a driver in it? The guy literally is an adult who walks in traffic-that is a universal sign of somebody who is incompetent. 

See every protestor in MPLS right now 

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

6 months ago the guy walked in front of a car with a driver in it. The driver took off and hit the officer.  6 months later, he did the exact same thing and opened fire. How did he not learn that you shouldn't walk in front of a car with a driver in it? The guy literally is an adult who walks in traffic-that is a universal sign of somebody who is incompetent.

Well, you’re just wrong.  The two incidents were not at all similar.  

[GreatWhiteNorth]

On 1/14/2026 at 12:35 PM, Caveira said:

The officer suffered internal bleeding in his torso too.   Fwiw 

Oh, that poor officer. After murdering a woman - shooting her in the face.

When you MURDER AN INNOCENT WOMAN BY SHOOTING HER IN THE FACE. It would be no surprise that you have bleeding ulcers as a result.

That might be the best thing anyone can possibly say about this murdering piece of filth.

Edited January 16 by GreatWhiteNorth

[JimmySpeaks]

Snow plow driver is mad again today. His TDS is in flare up mode and he clearly can’t think straight.  Self defense is what this was plain and simple. 

[Bigbrog]

12 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Great points. That's why it's a questionable call and could go either way. It was a split second decision. We can clearly see from the video that she wasn't going to hit him (and she didn't), but how could he have known that? In no world did he commit premeditated murder.  But did he act recklessly? Did his actions follow the justifiable use of force in his training? Those are questions that a prosecutor and jury should consider and in my view could go either way. They're not something I have an answer to or presume to know.

The only thing that is obvious to me is that he has demonstrated that he is terrible at his job for repeatedly walking in front of cars. 

Man...this is tiresome with you guys who live in this fantasy world of reality and who are able to play mental gymnastics to create a weird, distorted fallacy.  I just can't believe you and a couple others out there are still denying video evidence of the LEO getting hit by the vehicle.  SMH

Anyway, back to my original point, glad you again clearly are demonstrating that you know absolutely nothing about LEO training.  

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Snow plow driver is mad again today. His TDS is in flare up mode and he clearly can’t think straight.  Self defense is what this was plain and simple. 

Can't you just picture it...him sitting in the basement with a dirty stained wife beater on, red in the face surrounding by 18 empty Busch lite beer cans screaming at his computer as he typed??  Then rocking back and forth muttering "Trump" over and over...

[JimmySpeaks]

57 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Can't you just picture it...him sitting in the basement with a dirty stained wife beater on, red in the face surrounding by 18 empty Busch lite beer cans screaming at his computer as he typed??  Then rocking back and forth muttering "Trump" over and over...

lol. This  

[GreatWhiteNorth]

13 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Can't you just picture it...him sitting in the basement with a dirty stained wife beater on, red in the face surrounding by 18 empty Busch lite beer cans screaming at his computer as he typed??  Then rocking back and forth muttering "Trump" over and over...

Or maybe picture me sitting by my fireplace, keeping warm while watching a light snowfall through my bay window.

My picture is real. Yours is just trying to be mean.

Don't forget for a minute. Mean people suck.

[Yes, all you other child posters should learn. Don't act like that BigBroad douche. She sux.]

Edited January 17 by GreatWhiteNorth