College Wrestling needs Tiebreaking Criteria for OT

[Caveira]

Just now, Lordnelson said:

So what your telling me is that coaches back in the day of "referee's decision" knew the criteria cold.

As opposed to the Freestyle type criteria where the score is underlined and 2 minutes on the clock to do something about it?

 

 

Freestyle is 26.5 times less exciting than folkstyle. 

[Alces Alces Gigas]

I think OT should be 30 seconds for each in their chosen favorite position and if still tied, ten go into the OT sequence we have now.   I hate the fact that today's OT favors the best guy on their feet.

[Lordnelson]

Ohhh.  My work here is done.

 

 

[ionel]

24 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Freestyle is 26.8 times less exciting than folkstyle. 

ftfy

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

ftfy

Please bring back reactions lol 

[1032004]

I’m not sure what the best solution is, but I hate the RT aspect of the tiebreakers.  I liked when they did 2 minutes neutral, then 2 30’s, then back to neutral

[forkemaz]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Video review 

3 point td 

4 point nf 

below the waist 5 count for stalling 

Basically every stalling tweak

And before anyone brings it up.   For the love of god no pushouts or step outs 

I can live with neutral danger.  That one is ok 

What is wrong with 3 pt TD and 4 pt NF?

[Caveira]

Just now, forkemaz said:

What is wrong with 3 pt TD and 4 pt NF?

It was supposed to increase action and reduce stalling.   It didn’t.   now the whole dynamic is changed for no good reason.  It now allows for more stalling at the end of the tighter 1 td matches in the third period.  
 

It will also eventually turn into more rule changes as people complain about the dynamic changing.   I.e….  Reversals etc. 

once you start constantly tinkering with the rules.  It leads to more tinkering.  And more tinkering.   And more tinkering  

we used to Have a mathematical poster on here in the way back days of old when we had reactions.    He proved there isn’t more actual scoring. 
 

bring back reactions and said poster 

[forkemaz]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

It was supposed to increase action and reduce stalling.   It didn’t.   now the whole dynamic is changed for no good reason.  It now allows for more stalling at the end of the tighter 1 td matches in the third period.  
 

It will also eventually turn into more rule changes as people complain about the dynamic changing.   I.e….  Reversals etc. 

once you start constantly tinkering with the rules.  It leads to more tinkering.  And more tinkering.   And more tinkering  

we used to Have a mathematical poster on here in the way back days of old when we had reactions.    He proved there isn’t more actual scoring. 
 

bring back reactions and said poster 

Did WKN make a post about Duel (not dual never dual) scoring and show there is no change in team scores? Because thats a dynamic that seems to me may have changed. 

As for rule changes in general, the entire wrestling community seems to have no clue about game theory, decision spaces, or what a perverse incentive is. I see the dumbest ideas for rule changes with the most glib justifications from fans to people who actually matter in this conversation. That being said. I do like 3 point take downs and 4 point near fall, even if i dont think its perfect.

[Caveira]

Just now, forkemaz said:

Did WKN make a post about Duel (not dual never dual) scoring and show there is no change in team scores? Because thats a dynamic that seems to me may have changed. 

As for rule changes in general, the entire wrestling community seems to have no clue about game theory, decision spaces, or what a perverse incentive is. I see the dumbest ideas for rule changes with the most glib justifications from fans to people who actually matter in this conversation. That being said. I do like 3 point take downs and 4 point near fall, even if i dont think its perfect.

I don't recall him looking at dual scores but I suspect more majors occur and more tech falls than before so I suspect the avg points on the dual score is higher.   But again it doesn’t mean more action.     That’s the next rule change it will spawn.   The spiral of rule changes.   Majors being 9 or 10 or whatever and techs being 18 or 20.   Neither idea am I in favor of.   
 

Maybe we petition the admin here to bring back reactions and therefore we can bring wkn back.   That would be cool 
 

If we made a touchdown in football 12 points and an extra point a duce scores would go up but we would likely see the same # ish of td passes.   Same with this.  

[1032004]

8 minutes ago, Caveira said:

It was supposed to increase action and reduce stalling.   It didn’t.   now the whole dynamic is changed for no good reason.  It now allows for more stalling at the end of the tighter 1 td matches in the third period.  
 

It will also eventually turn into more rule changes as people complain about the dynamic changing.   I.e….  Reversals etc. 

once you start constantly tinkering with the rules.  It leads to more tinkering.  And more tinkering.   And more tinkering  

we used to Have a mathematical poster on here in the way back days of old when we had reactions.    He proved there isn’t more actual scoring. 
 

bring back reactions and said poster 

Was it stated that it was supposed to increase action?  I remember WKN’s thread showing it hadn’t, but I thought a bigger reason was to increase the value of a TD compared to other means of scoring.

[forkemaz]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I don't recall him looking at dual scores but I suspect more majors occur and more tech falls than before so I suspect the avg points on the dual score is higher.   But again it doesn’t mean more action.     That’s the next rule change it will spawn.   The spiral of rule changes.   Majors being 9 or 10 or whatever and techs being 18 or 20.   Neither idea am I in favor of.   
 

Maybe we petition the admin here to bring back reactions and therefore we can bring wkn back.   That would be cool 
 

If we made a touchdown in football 12 points and an extra point a duce scores would go up but we would likely see the same # ish of td passes.   Same with this.  

I doubt anyone wants to increase the barrier to majors and techs. Especially if its positively affecting duel scores.

I thought I missed reactions at first but im over it. I dont miss them. WKN should just come back hes a grown man, why would a grown man need emjois?

It is very hard to directly incentivize more action without serious side effects. The higher TD and NF value putting wrestlers closer to majors and techs is about as good as it gets because a coach will implore them to push for those higher values in close duels.

I suspect if this sport were more duel based we would see action go up but only for the most dominant wrestlers. That may even be the case now but im not WKN and i dont have the spreadsheets. Id be interested to know if a % of the most dominant wrestlers are more actively scoring and where the drop off is if that is the case 

[forkemaz]

Id also be interested to know about the shot clock in freestyle. What % of guys on the clock score. It seems low. Are matches higher scoring since its implementation? I doubt it.

[Caveira]

11 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Was it stated that it was supposed to increase action?  I remember WKN’s thread showing it hadn’t, but I thought a bigger reason was to increase the value of a TD compared to other means of scoring.

The super duper high point total for a td was supposed to make wrestlers try to score more.   As if it’s that easy.   As if going 7 minutes isn’t already grueling enough they could or would shoot a zillion times a match.   
 

The NCAA moved to 3-point takedowns (starting 2023-24) primarily 

to boost scoring, increase excitement, and reward offensive action/risk-taking, and encouraging more creative, aggressive wrestling, though some debate its actual impact on increasing action. 

Key Reasons for the Change:

• Incentivize Offense: To get wrestlers out of neutral and actively trying for takedowns, rather than stalling or riding for riding time.

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

Id also be interested to know about the shot clock in freestyle. What % of guys on the clock score. It seems low. Are matches higher scoring since its implementation? I doubt it.

That would be interesting.  I suspect you’re right.   The shot clock is slightly less dumb than the good ol ball grab we used to have lol.   That and the win like 2 of 3 periods or whatever that nonsense was.     That’s another sport Changed not for the better by rule changes.  
 

I wish there was a database of bout sheets in time order we could query.  That would be cool af.    It would also not really require wkn to do his magic.    I.e… we could query average TDs per min or match or period or whatever and that would be cool.  

Edited December 22, 2025 by Caveira

[RawDog]

56 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I’m not sure what the best solution is, but I hate the RT aspect of the tiebreakers.  I liked when they did 2 minutes neutral, then 2 30’s, then back to neutral

This! Go back to this.

 

In my opinion the worst rule change was giving a point for hands to the face. It significantly changed the outcomes of matches. Coaches were constantly challenging for it slowing down all the matches.  So glad they got rid of that.

[Husker]

OT - no clock. Start on feet and match ends when a wrestler scores a TD or stalling point. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'm not a fan of the two 30s either, but criteria also sucks. I like the idea of OT until someone scores, but then we end up with matches like Suriano-Fix at WNO.

So if we're spitballing, why not implement an "if you didn't win, you lost" rule? Something like one 6min OT period, first to score wins. If neither wrestler scores by the end of the OT, both wrestlers take a loss. If it's the finals of a tournament, fuck it, neither wrestler gets the gold medal and the weight class has no champion. 

A rule like this is technically a tie, yes, but my thinking is that counting it as a loss on one's record will be enough motivation for both wrestlers to open up and go for it.

[Caveira]

7 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I'm not a fan of the two 30s either, but criteria also sucks. I like the idea of OT until someone scores, but then we end up with matches like Suriano-Fix at WNO.

So if we're spitballing, why not implement an "if you didn't win, you lost" rule? Something like one 6min OT period, first to score wins. If neither wrestler scores by the end of the OT, both wrestlers take a loss. If it's the finals of a tournament, fuck it, neither wrestler gets the gold medal and the weight class has no champion. 

A rule like this is technically a tie, yes, but my thinking is that counting it as a loss on one's record will be enough motivation for both wrestlers to open up and go for it.

In duals In the 90s there were ties….. I tied the same guy twice I think.   1-1 both times (I think).  Snooze fest I bet. 

[ionel]

How bout SV we set up a basketball goal next to mat, ref toss bb, first to wrestle it away and dunk the ball wins?

Be fun dont ya think ... better than traditional ball grab?   

[Jim L]

Bring back ties in dual meets. No need for multiple OTs in a dual.

[Nak21]

2 hours ago, Jim L said:

Bring back ties in dual meets. No need for multiple OTs in a dual.

Ok fine. But what about tournaments? Can’t have ties there. Someone has to advance. And I’d like to have the same rules for duals and tourneys, duals giving you a chance to prep for what could happen in a tourney. 

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Nak21 said:

Ok fine. But what about tournaments? Can’t have ties there. Someone has to advance. And I’d like to have the same rules for duals and tourneys, duals giving you a chance to prep for what could happen in a tourney. 

How bout kid who weighs in lightest wins the tie matches.  This would be easy and speed things up.

[Nak21]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

How bout kid who weighs in lightest wins the tie matches.  This would be easy and speed things up.

Boo!! You’ve brought great shame on your house. Everyone knows it should be the heavier guy.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Nak21 said:

Boo!! You’ve brought great shame on your house. Everyone knows it should be the heavier guy.

Nah ... light guy thus encourages loosing a little extra for weigh in just in case.   Also if you are wrestling a guy who weighed in lighter its gonna encourage you to score more points.