Is this what you voted for?

[reversaloffortune]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Nice no comment on the 500 murderers arrested in the first 100 days.  
 

 

Here is your comment.  That isn't true.

[fishbane]

10 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

 Why does it have to be a US citizen that was murdered?  Btw One is too many. 

That wasn’t the question you presented.  You need to ask your other account not me and one of the murders you listed was not actually a murder, it was a vehicular homicide.

One is too many in the sense that the goal should be zero, but given the number of homicides in this country and the number of illegal immigrants, illegal immigrants could account for 500+ homicides/year and be less likely to commit murder than the rest of the population.  If illegal immigrants commit murder at a lower rate than the rest of the population then it would be illogical to target them as part of a campaign to lower the murder rate.  

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, reversaloffortune said:

Here is your comment.  That isn't true.

Whatever boss 

[Caveira]

Just now, fishbane said:

That wasn’t the question you presented.  You need to ask your other account not me and one of the murders you listed was not actually a murder, it was a vehicular homicide.

One is too many in the sense that the goal should be zero, but given the number of homicides in this country and the number of illegal immigrants, illegal immigrants could account for 500+ homicides/year and be less likely to commit murder than the rest of the population.  If illegal immigrants commit murder at a lower rate than the rest of the population then it would be illogical to target them as part of a campaign to lower the murder rate.  

You are telling me sanctuary cities report the immigration status of all of its murders committed by illegal aliens?

[jross]

45 minutes ago, fishbane said:

What I am talking about here is ICE going onto private property without a warrant and detaining anyone that looks Latino.  

It is a regrettable and inevitable human response to unwanted and widespread illegal immigration.  I wish it was zero while accepting that mistakes occur to enforce the law. 

ICE should be following law (8 U.S.C. § 1357) that grants officers authority to question, detain, and arrest individuals suspected of immigration violations.  The government grants citizens protections but individual officers and sometimes policies do not comply.

While I opposed birthright citizenship, I support Leo's right to sue the government for violating his rights.

I agree with Teddy Roosevelt on assimilating to America by speaking the English language...  I haven't found Leo speaking English yet but he definitely speaks fluent Spanish. 
 

 

So while its against the law to profile based on his looking mexican and speaking spanish, given arrest quotas as incentives and substantial illegal documents, it is understandable why human officers would make this mistake.  I've read this has occurred rarely, like to 15 people known so far (lost the link).  50K successful enforcements say against 15 unlawful detainments is acceptable.  

For comparison, what data exists around unlawful detainments over the years?

[fishbane]

4 minutes ago, Caveira said:

You are telling me sanctuary cities report the immigration status of all of its murders committed by illegal aliens?

Didn’t say that.  I think a sanctuary city if they know who committed a murder would charge them and if the evidence was sufficient get a conviction and incarcerate the responsible individual based on the sentence received.  

Looking at the bet you proposed I think there would be better documentation for a murder than an illegal detention/arrest.  The administration has an interest in promote stories involving crime by illegal immigrants to justify the raids.  They also have an interest to not document illegal detentions to avoid accountability.

[jross]

Here is the video translation.

Quote

It’s the chaotic moment when an agent tries to arrest Leonardo Garcia Venegas, 25 years old, at his workplace. Suddenly, two officers are seen running toward him and forcibly trying to subdue him. This happens despite him telling them he is a citizen.

 

“They took my wallet and pulled out my ID, and they told me it was fake, but that wasn’t true. They said my IDs were fake, and they grabbed me really roughly, they put the handcuffs on me really tight.”

 

This incident occurred on the morning of Wednesday, May 21, in Foley, Alabama. According to Leonardo, when he returned from buying materials, the agents had already handcuffed four other workers, including his 34-year-old brother, who is illegally in this country.

 

When Leonardo tried to record what was happening, “they knocked the phone out of my hand, they pushed me, they tried to take me down, and all that.”

 

Leonardo kept insisting that they check his documents. “I showed them my Social Security card, but check the computer, I said, it’s a mistake, I’m a citizen.”

 

It wasn’t until hours later that they removed his handcuffs and released him. But the damage was already done, as this mistake left this 25-year-old, born in Florida, terrified. “The truth is, I feel very sad, really. Yes, I’m a bit nervous because of what’s happening.”

 

After this, Leonardo asked his cousin, also a U.S. citizen, for help. She now fears the same could happen to her. “It’s sad because, even though we were born here, that doesn’t matter anymore. It seems that having the skin color we have has become a crime, and it’s become a deserved offense to be treated as if we were real criminals.”

 

This is the fear our community lives with, regardless of their status. We contacted [ICE] about this case, and so far, they have not responded. It’s worth mentioning that this is not the first time immigration agents have mistakenly detained a citizen of this country.

 

Thank you very much for this report. Alright.

 

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, fishbane said:

murder would charge them and if the evidence was sufficient get a conviction and incarcerate the responsible individual based on the sentence received.

Megan Bos, Waukegan (2025)

• In April 2025, the body of Megan Bos was found in a container in the yard of Jose Luis Mendoza-Gonzalez, an illegal immigrant.
• Mendoza-Gonzalez was charged with concealing and abusing a corpse and obstruction of justice but was released from custody under Illinois's bail reform laws.

[jross]

The human mistake is more understandable given four illegal aliens on the worksite were arrested before Leo arrived back to the site.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

18 hours ago, red viking said:

Problem is the detainment and deportation of undocumented residents that committed no crime other than being here. That's part of the reason why we have significant food inflation right now and, in some cases, vegetable crops left rotting in the fields. 

Multiple reasons why Trump's policies are ramping up inflation (in addition to devaluing of the dollar and record-breaking deficit spending) but that's one of them. 

The idiot wingers think they're getting rich because their 401ks are skyrocketing (in terms of nominal dollars only) but are too dumb to realize that so are everybody else's and the main reason is the free falling value of the dollar. 

"committed no crime other than being here"

Natural logical consequences...

Edited 5 hours ago by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[jross]

I wonder how much context that I discovered about the Leo situation will be reported in the news.

[jross]

18 hours ago, red viking said:

Problem is the detainment and deportation of undocumented residents that committed no crime other than being here. 

Except Social Security claimed 75% of illegal aliens commit felony fraud to work in the USA.

[fishbane]

23 minutes ago, jross said:

while its against the law to profile based on his looking mexican and speaking spanish, given arrest quotas as incentives and substantial illegal documents, it is understandable why human officers would make this mistake.  I've read this has occurred rarely, like to 15 people known so far (lost the link).  50K successful enforcements say against 15 unlawful detainments is acceptable.  

Just because a detention results in the arrest of a person and an order for removal that doesn't make the detention any more legal than what happened to Leo. The police could detain anyone leaving a bar if they were looking to increase DUI and/or public intoxication arrests.  It would result in the arrest of many guilty people, many would be detained for a de minimis and not newsworthy period of time based on what the officer can observe at a glance, and a relatively small number of innocent people would be detained for a prolonged period of time, but it's all unconstitutional nonetheless.   Its legality and the ability of the government to do it should not be determined by the number of guilty people arrested vs the number of innocent that are detained for a prolonged period of time.

It is understandable that officers would do this.  They are getting squeezed from above.  There is a goal to deport a million people this year and that won't happen if they follow the law.  Most of the blame belongs on the leadership.

48 minutes ago, jross said:

For comparison, what data exists around unlawful detainments over the years?

Unfortunately any data available will be far from comprehensive. 

[Caveira]

Cool stat 

In its Fiscal Year 2024 report, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) stated that its officers arrested 2,894 illegals for homicide charges or convictions during the fiscal year.

[mspart]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Cool stat 

In its Fiscal Year 2024 report, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) stated that its officers arrested 2,894 illegals for homicide charges or convictions during the fiscal year.

That's what I voted for!!

mspart

[JimmySpeaks]

3 hours ago, fishbane said:

That wasn’t the question you presented.  You need to ask your other account not me and one of the murders you listed was not actually a murder, it was a vehicular homicide.

One is too many in the sense that the goal should be zero, but given the number of homicides in this country and the number of illegal immigrants, illegal immigrants could account for 500+ homicides/year and be less likely to commit murder than the rest of the population.  If illegal immigrants commit murder at a lower rate than the rest of the population then it would be illogical to target them as part of a campaign to lower the murder rate.  

I didn’t present any question other than the one I asked you.  So answer the question.  
 

And it has NOTHING to with homicide rates or numbers in this country.    If they weren’t here they couldn’t commit any.  

[JimmySpeaks]

If unlawfuls weren’t here they couldn’t commit any violence at all. Doesn’t matter if their rates are lower or not. It’s plain and simple.  If they’re not here they can’t add to the totals.  Get them out. 

[Tripnsweep]

What's that little Jimmy? You don't like non white people? 

[JimmySpeaks]

Unlawfuls need to go.  Ice ice baby. 

[fishbane]

50 minutes ago, mspart said:

That's what I voted for!!

mspart

That happened before the election.  Fiscal year 2024 ended in September 2024.

[braves121]

4 minutes ago, fishbane said:

That happened before the election.  Fiscal year 2024 ended in September 2024.

Common mistake of conservatives to not fact check or even pay attention lmao

[fishbane]

46 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

I didn’t present any question other than the one I asked you.  So answer the question.  

The bet your other alias originally proposed was this "I’ll bet that illegal immigrants kill more U.S. citizens than citizens who are wrongly deported." That is what I asked the question "How many US citizens were murdered by illegal immigrants in 2024 and so far this year?" in response. You proposed a bet that was one number is greater than another number.  My question was to try and determine one of the numbers.  I asked about US citizens because that is what you wanted to bet.  If you now want to expand it from "illegal immigrants kill more US citizens" to more broadly "illegal immigrants kill more people in the US"  I don't think it substantively changes the proposal.

52 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

And it has NOTHING to with homicide rates or numbers in this country.    If they weren’t here they couldn’t commit any.  

The math behind my statement is pretty simply.  If illegal immigrants commit homicides at a higher rate than the rest of the population then deporting all illegal immigrants will cause a reduction in the homicide rate.  If not then the murder rate will be expected to either go up or not change. 

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, braves121 said:

Common mistake of conservatives to not fact check or even pay attention lmao

I was not implying that   stat had anything to do with Trump.  I was implying illegals kill a lot of people annually.   No matter who is president.  

[braves121]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

I was not implying that   stat had anything to do with Trump.  I was implying illegals kill a lot of people annually.   No matter who is president.  

Sure just like how you tried to link us citizens being detained being Obama fault in 2008 lmao

[Caveira]

Just now, braves121 said:

Sure just like how you tried to link us citizens being detained being Obama fault in 2008 lmao

Obama didn’t detain him.  He just kept him in detainment for over 1,000 days for the first 3 or so years of his term.    
 

Maybe he doesn’t care about citizens being detained illegally.  I don’t know his reasoning to be honest.  You’ll have to help me with that one.