All Quarter-Century Bracket: 157

[BruceyB]

157	2001	2009	2014	2018
1st	T.J. Williams	Jordan Burroughs	Alex Dieringer	Jason Nolf
2nd	Bryan Snyder	Michael Poeta	Dylan Ness	Hayden Hidaley
3rd	Shane Roller	Jordan Leen	James Green	Tyler Berger
4th	Luke Becker	Gregor Gillespie	Ian Miller	Michael Kemerer
5th	Eric Jorgenson	Michael Chandler	Derek St. John	Alec Pantaleo
6th	Kirk White	Matt Moley	Brian Realbuto	Micah Jordan
7th	Yoshi Nakamura	Chase Pami	Isaac Jordan	Josh Shields
8th	Gray Maynard	Tyler Safratowich	Anthony Perrotti	Luke Zilverberg

 

Not to sway any voters, but fun fact.. the 2014 podium crew (if my math is mathing) ended their careers with 28 AA honors.

[nhs67]

Some of the others seem to have recency bias attached to the results... for this one I think 2018 is just simply the best bracket.  2014 is pretty lit, as well.

[Gantry]

That top4 in 2009 is absolutely incredible, going with that.  Especially since I believe Leen and Gillespie had already been champs, this isn't a situation where someone places 7/8 as a frosh and becomes a monster later. 

Didn't Pami make the finals too?  

Edited 18 hours ago by Gantry

[BruceyB]

11 minutes ago, Gantry said:

That top4 in 2009 is absolutely incredible, going with that.  Especially since I believe Leen and Gillespie had already been champs, this isn't a situation where someone places 7/8 as a frosh and becomes a monster later. 

Didn't Pami make the finals too?  

Correct! Gregor won the title in 2007 at 149, and Leen was the 157 champ the year before in 2008.

And correct again, Pami made the finals the following year in 2010 where he fell to J.P. O'Connor.

[BruceyB]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Some of the others seem to have recency bias attached to the results... for this one I think 2018 is just simply the best bracket.  2014 is pretty lit, as well.

I'm probably a little bias based on how much I loved watching those 2014 guys. 

The 1/4s match in 2015 with the OT scoring error between Ian Miller and Brian Realbuto is all time.

Ness and Miller were appointment viewing.

James Green was unbelievable but every year the question was whether or not he could get it done when it matters. 

Ringer was emerging as one of the best P4P wrestlers in D1.

and that's not even mentioning that 2014 was returning NCAA champion Derek St. John's worse NCAA finish.

But don't ask me where my vote went. 

[Antitroll2828]

What criteria do you use ? Total career AAs? Just a quick glance it seems 2011 has 3 ncaa champs with Bubba,DT and St.john and a finalist with Welch and a few other multi time AAs like Hall and Fleming is arguably better then 2018 in my opinion 

[BruceyB]

7 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

What criteria do you use ? Total career AAs? Just a quick glance it seems 2011 has 3 ncaa champs with Bubba,DT and St.john and a finalist with Welch and a few other multi time AAs like Hall and Fleming is arguably better then 2018 in my opinion 

I don't use any sort of numerical data to make my picks. I try to find a balance between the star-power in the bracket and being realistic to who they were at the time. I'm glad you brought up the 2011 bracket because it's a great example of my thought process..

Yes, there are three champs in that bracket, and another finalist. However, DT, St. John, and Welch were all Freshman in this tournament. Wunderkind David Taylor had been on a bonus tear during that season, but many were still wondering how he would do against a guy like Steve Fittery, who, while very good, isn't a name many would know outside of hardcore fans. Adam Hall as well, many probably remember him as a very solid multi-time AA, but he's far from an all-time guy and was the top seed going into the tournament. IMO it's hard to consider a bracket for All-Time best when the top two seeds aren't particularly noteworthy. 

It's far from perfect as it's really my subjective opinion that is leading the cause, but that's why I am interested to hear others make the case for other years. 

I do the subjective analysis based on research and my personal bias, and then @Wrestleknownothing comes with the hard numbers.

PS: Tomorrow has one of the most intriguing brackets so far, imo! Stay tuned.

[Gene Mills Fan]

A lot of my picks seem to be decided by #5&#6

[Wrestleknownothing]

13 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I don't use any sort of numerical data to make my picks. I try to find a balance between the star-power in the bracket and being realistic to who they were at the time. I'm glad you brought up the 2011 bracket because it's a great example of my thought process..

Yes, there are three champs in that bracket, and another finalist. However, DT, St. John, and Welch were all Freshman in this tournament. Wunderkind David Taylor had been on a bonus tear during that season, but many were still wondering how he would do against a guy like Steve Fittery, who, while very good, isn't a name many would know outside of hardcore fans. Adam Hall as well, many probably remember him as a very solid multi-time AA, but he's far from an all-time guy and was the top seed going into the tournament. IMO it's hard to consider a bracket for All-Time best when the top two seeds aren't particularly noteworthy. 

It's far from perfect as it's really my subjective opinion that is leading the cause, but that's why I am interested to hear others make the case for other years. 

I do the subjective analysis based on research and my personal bias, and then @Wrestleknownothing comes with the hard numbers.

PS: Tomorrow has one of the most intriguing brackets so far, imo! Stay tuned.

I like to give people some time to respond before spoiling a good conversation with a bunch of nerd talk.

Speaking of nerd talk...

2014 does run away with it here.

[Wrestleknownothing]

And it all comes down to depth.

While 2018 has higher point totals at the top, 2014 blows 2018 away with higher point totals for 21 of the 25 scoring wrestlers in each bracket (with one tie).

Edited 3 hours ago by Wrestleknownothing

[Wrestleknownothing]

Another noteworthy fact about 2014. 

It is the highest "non-fifth year included" scoring bracket in the quarter century. The only higher scoring brackets all come from 2022. 

This also brings up the point that the brackets from 2023-2025 are disadvantaged by my method because many wrestlers in them still have many points to score.

[steamboat_charlie]

All of these brackets are loaded. 

I do think the team point stats are slightly misleading because they assign career achievements to a single year, but it's a useful tool nonetheless.  For example, St. John was wrestling on one leg pretty much all of the 2014 season.  Was a testament to his toughness that he even AA'd. 

I went with 2014 anyway.   

[Wrestleknownothing]

Speaking of 157...

It is also home to the least accomplished bracket (measured by career points at NCAAs).

With a mere 285 total career points, it is less than half of the total the 2014 bracket put on the board.

[Wrestleknownothing]

For three of the 2010 AAs it was their only visit to the podium.

And the 2010 title was the only title won by the group.

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

All of these brackets are loaded. 

I do think the team point stats are slightly misleading because they assign career achievements to a single year, but it's a useful tool nonetheless.  For example, St. John was wrestling on one leg pretty much all of the 2014 season.  Was a testament to his toughness that he even AA'd. 

I went with 2014 anyway.   

Another way I was going to do it was cumulative points at that point in their career, but that is a lot more work. I will do it at some point.

[steamboat_charlie]

54 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Another way I was going to do it was cumulative points at that point in their career, but that is a lot more work. I will do it at some point.

What about career RPI or some ELO equivalent?  

[Wrestleknownothing]

17 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

What about career RPI or some ELO equivalent?  

No data

[BAC]

I'd pick the 2001 bracket by good margin.

You've got 3 NCAA champs in there, plus two of the best of all time to never win a title, Snyder and Roller. Especially Snyder.

Even the 7th/8th finishers were absolute monsters.