Do you ever get tired?

[Doublehalf]

I've been on these forums for a while and mostly lurking for years before commenting on wrestling and only within the last few months in non-wrestling topics...

Im finding it's been a bit draining reading the endless political debates, bickering, belittling and attacking each other's political beliefs. I know we can all argue the moral high ground and that's not where I'm going with this. 

I get we all come from different walks of life, occupations, geography, urban vs rural etc... not only do I think it's ok to have debate and disagreements but I think if we are open minded we can all learn from each other. That's assuming we can reach a higher level of consensus but it seems we are in a world so far from that right now. 
 

Im not trying to start a thread where we argue again or point fingers on why and how we got to this point and maybe this thread is a repeat of someone else trying to do it in the past but maybe if we share a bit more about ourselves outside of politics and get to know one another on a level that's more neighborly, perhaps it can move the needle a fraction in the right direction. Or just reflect on times where it wasn't always this way. I know we as humans are tribal but nature but I also think we are capable of rising above that as well.
 

I guess I just wanted to challenge us only for a second to come up for air and not be at each others throats, maybe tell a few jokes, talk about something we learned from a wrestler through coaching or as a parent or even just a cool experience we had recently. I'm happy to go first...

Edited Wednesday at 01:54 AM by Doublehalf

[Caveira]

Just now, Doublehalf said:

I've been on these forums for a while and mostly lurking for years before commenting on wrestling and only within the last few months in non-wrestling topics...

Im finding it's been a bit draining reading the endless political debates, bickering, belittling and attacking each other's political beliefs. I know we can all argue the moral high ground and that's not where I'm going with this. 

I get we all come from different walks of life, occupations, geography, urban vs rural etc... not only do I think it's ok to have debate and disagreements but I think if we are open minded we can all learn from each other. That's assuming we can reach a higher level of consensus but it seems we are in a world so far from that right now. 
 

Im not trying to start a thread where we argue again or point fingers on why and how we got to this point and maybe this thread is a repeat of someone else trying to do it in the past but maybe if we share a bit more about ourselves outside of politics and get to know one another on a level that's more neighborly, perhaps it can move the needle a fraction in the right direction. Or just reflect on times where it wasn't always this way. I know we as humans are tribal but nature but I also think we are capable of rising above that as well.
 

I guess I just wanted a thread where only for a second some of us can come up for air and not be at each others throats, maybe tell a few jokes, talk about something we learned from a wrestler through coaching or as a parent or even just a cool experience we had recently. I'm happy to go first...

Modern politics doesn’t want air.  Or discourse.  Or discussion.  Just mayhem. 
 

please term limits.  

[Doublehalf]

I ended up moving next to a college track and field coach that happened to wrestle around the same time I did in a different part of the state but he convinced me to begin a introductory youth wrestling program in 6 week blocks modeled after a track and field program that he and his wife set up...

 

long story short I agreed and holy *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* is it toughe trying to keep the attention of 4-6 year olds... my son is 3 and he was in the classes but I was used to coaching at a middle to higher level in high school and then to go this route has certainly been challenging but it's gotten easier week by week... I'm open to any ideas to keep the attention of these boys but it's literally hearding cats 

Edited Wednesday at 01:45 AM by Doublehalf

[Doublehalf]

5 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Modern politics doesn’t want air.  Or discourse.  Or discussion.  Just mayhem. 
 

please term limits.  

yeah man I hear you, it's exhausting sometimes isn't it? 
 

and I'll be the first to say this and the sentiment may be short lived although I hope it isn't but your my countrymen and while we can disagree, let's keep in mind that we are not each others opposition/enemy...

Edited Wednesday at 01:49 AM by Doublehalf

[Caveira]

9 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

yeah man I hear you, it's exhausting sometimes isn't it? 
 

and I'll be the first to say this and the sentiment may be short lived although I hope it isn't but your my countrymen and while we can disagree, let's keep in mind that we are not each others opposition/enemy...

This forum will eat u up brother.  Just both sides (me included sometimes but I try not to post )….  Yelling into an echo chamber.  No one listens.  No one will start listening.  It’s pure nonsense. 

[Scouts Honor]

19 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Modern politics doesn’t want air.  Or discourse.  Or discussion.  Just mayhem. 
 

please term limits.  

it wants to die in darkness 

[Doublehalf]

6 minutes ago, Caveira said:

This forum will eat u up brother.  Just both sides (me included sometimes but I try not to post )….  Yelling into an echo chamber.  No one listens.  No one will start listening.  It’s pure nonsense. 

Yeah I mean it's not just here, it's everywhere these days... Everything seems to have been designed to divide us when we can all be much more effective together...  But before we ever get to that point I'm just curious about where you guys are from? What do you do? What do you like outside of wrestling? Whatever you're willing to share, doesn't have to be too specific but I think just building some bridges could make for more civilized dialogue in the future. At least that's what I would like if I'm going to keep coming here which I don't think I'll be able to stop doing...

[Caveira]

Just now, Doublehalf said:

Yeah I mean it's not just here, it's everywhere these days... Everything seems to have been designed to divide us when we can all be much more effective together...  But before we ever get to that point I'm just curious about where you guys are from? What do you do? What do you like outside of wrestling? Whatever you're willing to share, doesn't have to be too specific but I think just building some bridges could make for more civilized dialogue in the future. At least that's what I would like if I'm going to keep coming here which I don't think I'll be able to stop doing...

In the right keeps going right ..
and 

The left keeps going left….

something will implode one day.  

[Doublehalf]

Well if it does I'd like to hedge my bets and have some friends on both sides... it's a small world and wrestling can make it feel even smaller so I suppose if my fears are realized and I'm ever at gunpoint or the one holding the gun and an intermatewrestle forum poster is on the other side we can say, "hey, maybe this guy isn't so bad and it doesn't have to end this way" haha

[jross]

This is a good and appreciated topic.  Some of us have tried this many times over.  Sharing information about us... creating non-political topics...

I've tried additional tactics

• Recognizing the best (and worst) members based on comment reactions given and received
• Suggesting forum rules and more moderators to enforce forum rules
• Having AI complete personality assessments based on the member's last 200 comments

These facts are why its hard

• 30% of men admit to trolling online
  • https://www.bustle.com/articles/45430-online-trolling-statistics-reveal-almost-one-third-of-millennial-americans-admit-to-being-internet-trolls
• 68% of people will situationally troll when they are exposed to others that troll or read something that offends them.
  • https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2017/02/stanford-research-shows-anyone-can-become-internet-troll

 

It's understandable how unruly discussion occurs when someone says something you disagree with.  Case in point below:

Quote

Bro... you are coming off as absolutely insane with this post to think there is a moral equivalency to what Bernard said vs what you are saying. - DoubleHalf

Your brain is operating on an evolutionary level of a caveman... - DoubleHalf

Your kind of people... - DoubleHalf

your way of thinking aligns with those that wanted separate water fountains for blacks - DoubleHalf

exacerbates how little you know about the world - DoubleHalf

If you were physically capable of having a nuanced conversation - DoubleHalf

 

Your call for a kinder forum is appreciated, but your post accusing someone of being a ‘caveman’ and ‘bigot’ seems to contradict that goal. I’m not saying this as a “gotcha”... it’s an example of how hard it can be to stay civil. How can we all share our views more constructively to meet your goal?

It's probably more important for the 'reader' to ask clarifying questions before they 'assume' the worst intent and attack the poster based on their often-wrong assumptions.

Edited Wednesday at 02:36 PM by jross

[WrestlingRasta]

50 years old, originally from Indiana but now residing in South Florida.  I've worked in athletics my whole life, in administration the past 16 years and have been coaching wrestling at the HS and college levels for the past 28 years.  Next year my youngest graduates HS and will be my last year coaching.  I've enjoyed every bit of it and owe a lot of my philosophy in life to the sport, as well as the ability to get through a lot of life's challenges.

The biggest being the beginning of '24 when I lost my wife to cancer.  It was a very rare and aggressive form that she battled with a spirit and determination that was truly awe inspiring, constantly with a smile on her face.  But in the end it only took about 18 months to be too much.  It was during those days of sitting next to a hospital bed or laying in our bed while she slept that I came across this board, and started posting, in a manner that probably was more of a vent for me than anything else.  But from the day we got the diagnosis I made a point to choose grateful over anger, and it's still something I hang onto a year and a half later as we continue to move forward.

Kayaking is probably my most enjoyable activity.  Lots and lots of options here along the coast, absolutely beautiful scenery.  This time next year will be interesting as for the first time in in 23 years I will be neither a school dad or a wrestling coach.  I took a job with my City's athletics department about six years ago to finish out my career into retirement.  Have lived in this town for 20 of those years and plan to move out of town at that time while keeping my role with the city.  It's truly going to be a completely new phase. 

As for my principals....well......around here at the beach things have really changed.  These days you look around and women are walking around exposing 95% of their bodies.   I try to remain a gentleman, and only focus on the covered parts.  

[Paul158]

13 hours ago, Doublehalf said:

I ended up moving next to a college track and field coach that happened to wrestle around the same time I did in a different part of the state but he convinced me to begin a introductory youth wrestling program in 6 week blocks modeled after a track and field program that he and his wife set up...

 

long story short I agreed and holy *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* is it toughe trying to keep the attention of 4-6 year olds... my son is 3 and he was in the classes but I was used to coaching at a middle to higher level in high school and then to go this route has certainly been challenging but it's gotten easier week by week... I'm open to any ideas to keep the attention of these boys but it's literally hearding cats 

I have been there and a I found out a few things. One thing is if you offer a reward for working hard and paying attention during practice. The best thing I found is to allow them to play sharks and minnows (or another game) at the end of practice. Let them play it several times. Then we would put up the mats. The kids loved it.

[Doublehalf]

26 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

I have been there and a I found out a few things. One thing is if you offer a reward for working hard and paying attention during practice. The best thing I found is to allow them to play sharks and minnows (or another game) at the end of practice. Let them play it several times. Then we would put up the mats. The kids loved it.

Funny you say that, we've played our fair share of sharks and minnows haha. I do like the idea of using it as a tool vs them assuming we will play a game regardless of the listening skills, I will definitely try that. 
 

Tough part is when you have one kid not listening and he's got a partner it immediately means you now have two guys not paying attention and then if you have one guy in another group doing the same that balloons to 4 wrestlers and so on... hopefully I find a way to crack the code all practice. I was actually thinking about reaching out to AWA for some ways they work to developed the love of the sport early on as that is more of the mindset I have going into this. I want kids to have a good experience and for them to learn to really like the sport. 

[Doublehalf]

30 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

50 years old, originally from Indiana but now residing in South Florida.  I've worked in athletics my whole life, in administration the past 16 years and have been coaching wrestling at the HS and college levels for the past 28 years.  Next year my youngest graduates HS and will be my last year coaching.  I've enjoyed every bit of it and owe a lot of my philosophy in life to the sport, as well as the ability to get through a lot of life's challenges.

The biggest being the beginning of '24 when I lost my wife to cancer.  It was a very rare and aggressive form that she battled with a spirit and determination that was truly awe inspiring, constantly with a smile on her face.  But in the end it only took about 18 months to be too much.  It was during those days of sitting next to a hospital bed or laying in our bed while she slept that I came across this board, and started posting, in a manner that probably was more of a vent for me than anything else.  But from the day we got the diagnosis I made a point to choose grateful over anger, and it's still something I hang onto a year and a half later as we continue to move forward.

Kayaking is probably my most enjoyable activity.  Lots and lots of options here along the coast, absolutely beautiful scenery.  This time next year will be interesting as for the first time in in 23 years I will be neither a school dad or a wrestling coach.  I took a job with my City's athletics department about six years ago to finish out my career into retirement.  Have lived in this town for 20 of those years and plan to move out of town at that time while keeping my role with the city.  It's truly going to be a completely new phase. 

As for my principals....well......around here at the beach things have really changed.  These days you look around and women are walking around exposing 95% of their bodies.   I try to remain a gentleman, and only focus on the covered parts.  

I really appreciate your post and story, and very sorry to hear about your wife. I can't imagine going through that especially at that point in life. 100% agree with the approach of being grateful vs anger, definitely can be hard sometimes but it's the way to go and doesn't rob you of happiness/positivity. 

[Paul158]

18 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Funny you say that, we've played our fair share of sharks and minnows haha. I do like the idea of using it as a tool vs them assuming we will play a game regardless of the listening skills, I will definitely try that. 
 

Tough part is when you have one kid not listening and he's got a partner it immediately means you now have two guys not paying attention and then if you have one guy in another group doing the same that balloons to 4 wrestlers and so on... hopefully I find a way to crack the code all practice. I was actually thinking about reaching out to AWA for some ways they work to developed the love of the sport early on as that is more of the mindset I have going into this. I want kids to have a good experience and for them to learn to really like the sport. 

 I found when all the kids know that we might not play at the end of practice  and they saw someone goofing off they tend to police themselves. They were Learning about taking responsibility. They were Learning about there are consequences for bad behavior. I really don't understand their love for the game but they would play it for hours if I let them. When i saw someone goofing off I just had to mention the game (sharks ).  Note: The entire team would get penalized for one of their teammates goofing off during practice. So, they self-policed themselves. 

Edited Wednesday at 04:22 PM by Paul158

[Doublehalf]

1 hour ago, jross said:

This is a good and appreciated topic.  Some of us have tried this many times over.  Sharing information about us... creating non-political topics...

I've tried additional tactics

• Recognizing the best (and worst) members based on comment reactions given and received
• Suggesting forum rules and more moderators to enforce forum rules
• Having AI complete personality assessments based on the member's last 200 comments

These facts are why its hard

• 30% of men admit to trolling online
  • https://www.bustle.com/articles/45430-online-trolling-statistics-reveal-almost-one-third-of-millennial-americans-admit-to-being-internet-trolls
• 68% of people will situationally troll when they are exposed to others that troll or read something that offends them.
  • https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2017/02/stanford-research-shows-anyone-can-become-internet-troll

 

It's understandable how unruly discussion occurs when someone says something you disagree with.  Case in point below:

 

Your call for a kinder forum is appreciated, but your post accusing someone of being a ‘caveman’ and ‘bigot’ seems to contradict that goal. I’m not saying this as a “gotcha”... it’s an example of how hard it can be to stay civil. How can we all share our views more constructively to meet your goal?

It's probably more important for the 'reader' to ask clarifying questions before they 'assume' the worst intent and attack the poster based on their often-wrong assumptions.

JRoss- I appreciate your ability to keep receipts (albeit clipped without the context of any of the inciting posts that preceded them) but I can admit that was probably not my best day and was most likely exasperated by the conversation and tone of the other posters such as yourself which I'm sure you can relate to. 
 

That being said, my post here is not intended to relitigate the past or steer down a road that could cause any arguments and truly take a timeout. I'm not sure we need anything as fancy as AI combing our comments but rather just learning to respect one another as individuals as a product of experiences (or lack thereof) that have shaped us.

I think at a basic level this can partially be achieved by learning about each other as people vs seeing a screen name and avatar. However small it is, I'd like to put a dent in the attitude of viewing each side as 'the other.'

 

can you tell me a little about yourself? Anything you wish to share? I'm sure we have commonalities outside of the sport of wrestling.

Edited Wednesday at 04:24 PM by Doublehalf

[mspart]

14 hours ago, Doublehalf said:

I get we all come from different walks of life, occupations, geography, urban vs rural etc... not only do I think it's ok to have debate and disagreements but I think if we are open minded we can all learn from each other. That's assuming we can reach a higher level of consensus but it seems we are in a world so far from that right now. 
 

Agreed and thank you.

mspart

[jross]

35 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

(albeit clipped without the context of any of the inciting posts that preceded them)

The term 'receipts' highlights the issue. For example, the parenthetical remark weakens the admission of responsibility. It’s unnecessary and detracts from an otherwise strong statement

Yes, I'll share about myself.

[jross]

I’m in my 40s, married for over 20 years, and a proud dad to multiple kids involved with gymnastics, soccer, wrestling, baseball, and softball.  I was a successful high school wrestler and baseball player in my home state. I wanted to become a chiropractor (~90 premed credits), but my father’s tragic motorcycle accident when I was 20 forced me to pause and pivot to software engineering.  I have been a project manager, people manager, and engineer at a large, diverse company in a major metro. I’ve directly managed 25 local employees and overseen 50 in another country, while also organizing and volunteering in my community.  After company buys and multiple reorganizations, I'm an individual contributor again.  Raised Christian, I moved through agnosticism to now theism.  I believe important characteristic are personal accountability, discipline, diligence, gratefulness, and healthy pride.  I love to help people that want to help themselves... am get frustrated with those that do not.

I’m a relentless worker, avid reader, and DIY enthusiast, tackling everything from home projects, mechanics, to coaching competitive baseball, where I’ve guided my team from rec to AAA, mentoring most of the kids since t-ball. I’ve coached youth and high school wrestling.  I took a break from coaching early in my marriage and picked it up again when my son started.  It was about this time that I joined this forum.  My son stopped at 8 and I thought I was done.  However my eldest daughter switched from gymnastics to wrestling as a sophomore, just graduated, and it was a blast to watch. I stay active in men’s baseball leagues and American ninja training... though I'm sorting out a solution to multiple rotator tuff tears.

I’ve traveled across most of the U.S. and visited countries in the Americas, Asia, Europe, and Australia. I grew up rural, live in a blue suburb now, and work in a progressive city environment.  I keep things practical... buying used cars and prioritizing family needs. I try and fail to be stoic and nonchalant.  I've very data driven... Now, I’m focused to reach early retirement, eager to make up for time I missed with my kids while working... time my stay-at-home wife had more of... by spending quality moments with my future grandkids...

I’m a constitutionalist libertarian who values merit, individualism, small government, capitalism, and a national identity rooted in personal freedom. I believe in laissez-faire principles, letting people chart their own paths with minimal interference. I strongly oppose DEI initiatives in practice, as they often undermine merit and fairness. However, I support free education, housing, and food through college for those who earn it through hard work and academic commitment, alongside a government focused primarily on providing security.  I am independent and vote for Democrat and Republican.  I do not like Trump but he is a good president.  I did not vote for him in 2016 but observed and voted for him in both 2020 and 2024.  I follow both on Twitter and have friendly acquaintances of both parties, including politicians. 

I try to pop people's bubbles with the media lies in this forum...

[152lbs]

   Of course it is exhausting.  We are indeed a divided nation and have always been that way.  Social media provides an outlet for expressing viewpoints and people are rarely interested in entertaining opposing views.  

[jross]

it’s the insults that exhaust.

opinions with reasoning, and facts… are welcome.

[152lbs]

  It is virtually impossible for humans to disagree without throwing insults.  And truly, why would anyone want to interact with someone that sees them with such a disdainful eye?

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

  It is virtually impossible for humans to disagree without throwing insults.  And truly, why would anyone want to interact with someone that sees them with such a disdainful eye?

Watch.  I don’t agree with this.  

[mspart]

I would have said, I don't agree with this you jerkface of a troll, piece of anchovie pizza, woman beater.   Cav, you are a much better man than I.   

mspart

[GreatWhiteNorth]

11 hours ago, mspart said:

I would have said, I don't agree with this you jerkface of a troll, piece of anchovie pizza, woman beater.   Cav, you are a much better man than I.   

mspart

Shart-GPT says:

Based on their last 183.6 postings, Caveira and mspart are very similar in that they show respect for those they consider friendly - and disdain for those they consider opponents. Unlike those versed in the concepts of sharing diverse opinions as is done in the highest levels of education and is by far the most preferable method for universal wellness, these entities share a level of disrespect for education. Given that neither was able to benefit from it, they reflect this via a 'sour grapes' attitude including pointed anger toward educated participants.

And... don't question me sheep. I'm AI. If you voted for Trump, you'll agree with me. Just do it.

Edited yesterday at 07:15 AM by GreatWhiteNorth